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  #1  
Old 04-26-2023, 08:19 AM
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Default Joe Jackson’s Insanely Scarce Cards / Photos / Items

Joe, where’d you go?! Let’s see your playing days Joe Jackson cards / photos / items.

According to PSA, SGC and Beckett Grading POP Reports, Joe Jackson has some of the most scarce cards (or omitted appearances therein) for a player of his caliber or popularity during the MLB’s infancy in the early 1900’s.

Honus Wagner had 64+ playing days card issues/appearances from 1897 through 1916 (14 of which were from 1897 through 1908, leaving 50+ in the 8 years from 1909 through 1916).

Joe Jackson’s playing days card/photo issues/appearances in the 14 years of 1907 through 1920 total only….44+!

Thus, Joe Jackson was in 35%+ fewer the # of card issues/appearances compared to Wagner.

Moreover, according to Graded POP reports:

Wagner has 2,667+ graded playing days cards.
Jackson only has….1,484+ graded playing days cards, total!

Why is Jackson missing from some of the most important pre-war sets (1909 T206; 1909 E92, 95, 101, 102; 1910 E90-2, 93, 103 , 104, 105, 125, 286; 1910 PC796; 1910 W-UNC; 1911 M110, etc.)?

In 1908 and 1909, Jackson only played 5 games for the Athletics and batted .130 and .176, respectively, yet made the 1909 E90-1 American Caramel card. In 1910, Jackson joined Cleveland, played in only 20 games and batted .387 (3rd highest in his 13 years of pro ball)! Did his lackluster 1908 and 1909 seasons keep Jackson out of major sets in 1909 and 1910? During this time period, Wagner was in 28+ card issues/appearances. Jackson was in only 1! 1909 E90-1.

Then in 1911 Jackson first appeared in a Cleveland uniform in the iconic 1909-1913 M101-2 Sporting News Supplements issue (which Jackson shared with Inaugural 1st class MLB HOFers Wagner, Cobb, Mathewson and Johnson, in addition to Young and more!). Important to note is that Jackson’s M101-2 issue was distributed on March 23, 1911. This means his fielding image from that issue would have been captured at one of the 20 games he played during his 1st season with Cleveland in 1910. Following this appearance, Jackson was in 26+ card issues/appearances during the 9 years from 1912 through 1920. Of this, Jackson was in 22+ card issues/appearances during the 5 years from 1912 through 1916. Comparatively, Wagner was in 17+ card issues/appearances during this same time period.

What does this all mean?

First, when was Joe Jackson’s actual Rookie season? Was it 1908 when he played 5 games for the Athletics and landed on the 1909 E90-1 card (181 total graded)? Was it 1910 when he played 20 games for Cleveland and landed on the 1911 M101-2 March 23, 1911 issue of Sporting News Supplements (25 total graded)? Or was it 1911 when he played his first full season of 147 games?

Second, Jackson seems to have yet again been stamped out of baseball history. He was omitted from some of the most iconic and widely collected pre-war sets in 1909 and 1910, thus reducing the total POP of his cards. Yet, Jackson gained traction (and more cards in POP) with National Game, Tom Baker, Cracker Jack, Polo Grounds and 1919-21 W-514 card issues/appearances. Jackson has only 1,484+ graded playing days cards/photos across 44+ issues vs. Wagner with 2,667+ graded playing days cards across 64+ issues!

All in all, Jackson’s mystique and scarcity in both card issues/appearances and total POP continues to fascinate our hobby more than 100 years after his last day in a pro ball White Sox uniform. Was he a victim to really bad timing (card issues and proximity to the Black Sox scandal)? Or is there more to his story than we will ever know? In summary, given his undisputed contributions to baseball, positive influence on young players (e.g. Babe Ruth), and acquittal of the Black Sox scandal, I hope one day the MLB or Congress approves his overdue acceptance into the MLB Hall of Fame. For the time being, our hobby will continue to keep his legacy and memory alive through our tenacious collecting of his scarce cards/photos/items.

For a Graded POP analysis of Jackson’s playing days cards, see Excel below (see later versions for updates as more cards/photos are shared and raised-up).
Attached Images
File Type: jpg a3h1mzInb0qJdz_henMN2A_a6332.jpg (197.2 KB, 1837 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20230426_062145756.jpg (193.5 KB, 1822 views)
File Type: jpg qqk9ALMe9k6UG_2eCZjpHg_da2f2.jpg (203.3 KB, 238 views)

Last edited by brunswickreeves; 07-28-2023 at 07:16 PM.
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  #2  
Old 04-26-2023, 08:21 AM
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Default Joe Jackson’s Insanely Scarce Cards



Not sure why this isn't on the list.

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Last edited by ezez420; 04-26-2023 at 08:22 AM.
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  #3  
Old 04-26-2023, 08:27 AM
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Very cool! I pulled from grading co POP reports, so could be not graded or human error.
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  #4  
Old 04-26-2023, 08:40 AM
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Interesting thoughts as to the many sets he was omitted from.

I have always thought that much of the scarcity in the quantity of cards from the sets he was actually included in was due to them being discarded or destroyed by disappointed kids and adults after the scandal. You can quite easily imagine during the time they were seen as negative to have and also having no value.

It takes many, many years for people to be able to see past current day transgressions and look big picture. An easy comparison can be made to several players of the 80s and 90s.
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  #5  
Old 04-26-2023, 08:42 AM
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He missed the "card boom" of 1908-1911 because he wasn't noteworthy yet, and he missed the 1920's...thats why he doesn't have many cards. There are a lot of players who missed the card production boom who suffered the same fate. Why not many 1911 cards (?), because images from his 1911 season wouldn't be used to produce things until 1912 or later probably.
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  #6  
Old 04-26-2023, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boneheadandrube View Post
He missed the "card boom" of 1908-1911 because he wasn't noteworthy yet, and he missed the 1920's...thats why he doesn't have many cards. There are a lot of players who missed the card production boom who suffered the same fate. Why not many 1911 cards (?), because images from his 1911 season wouldn't be used to produce things until 1912 or later probably.
This.
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  #7  
Old 04-26-2023, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ezez420 View Post


Not sure why this isn't on the list.

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Wow that is a great piece.
If you ever decide to give it up.
Give me a call. Lol

Amazing piece indeed
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Looking for
1920 Heading Home Ruth Cards
1933 Uncle Jacks Candy Babe Ruth Card
1921 Frederick Foto Ruth
Joe Jackson Cards 1916 Advertising Backs
1910 Old Mills Joe Jackson
1914 Boston Garter Joe Jackson
1915 Cracker Jack Joe Jackson
1911 Pinkerton Joe Jackson
Shoeless Joe Jackson Autograph
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  #8  
Old 04-26-2023, 08:51 AM
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Here is a few of mine
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File Type: jpg IMG_0507.jpg (120.1 KB, 1760 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0479.jpg (101.9 KB, 1760 views)
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Looking for
1920 Heading Home Ruth Cards
1933 Uncle Jacks Candy Babe Ruth Card
1921 Frederick Foto Ruth
Joe Jackson Cards 1916 Advertising Backs
1910 Old Mills Joe Jackson
1914 Boston Garter Joe Jackson
1915 Cracker Jack Joe Jackson
1911 Pinkerton Joe Jackson
Shoeless Joe Jackson Autograph
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  #9  
Old 04-26-2023, 09:16 AM
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Default My one and only!!

Here is my only Joe Jackson card

Troy
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  #10  
Old 04-26-2023, 10:08 AM
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I've only got one, but it's a special one.
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  #11  
Old 04-26-2023, 11:25 AM
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  #12  
Old 04-26-2023, 11:33 AM
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Also the B14 Blanket is out there...here's mine. I don't think PSA grades these but SGC and Beckett do.
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  #13  
Old 04-26-2023, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boneheadandrube View Post
He missed the "card boom" of 1908-1911 because he wasn't noteworthy yet, and he missed the 1920's...thats why he doesn't have many cards. There are a lot of players who missed the card production boom who suffered the same fate. Why not many 1911 cards (?), because images from his 1911 season wouldn't be used to produce things until 1912 or later probably.
I agree. If his career had ramped up a couple of years earlier, and lasted another couple of years, he would have been in a TON of issues, probably more than Honus Wagner. His E90-1 image would have likely been included in all E92/E101/E102/E105/E106 and D303 etc. sets, and we would also seen cool different artwork for him in possibly the E93, E94, E95/E96, and E98 sets. Another couple of years at the end of his career would have undoubtedly gotten him into the E120, E121 and E122 American Caramel sets and related issues utilizing the same photos (W573, W575, W501 V61-1, V61-2 etc.), as well as E220 National Caramel and a variety of other sets (W503, W575-2, as well as a bunch of strip sets besides W514).

Brian
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  #14  
Old 04-26-2023, 12:38 PM
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A few more with different ad backs
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File Type: jpg IMG_8989.jpg (75.7 KB, 1629 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_8334.jpg (77.4 KB, 1638 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_6476.jpg (195.3 KB, 1667 views)
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https://www.flickr.com/photos/144250058@N05/

Looking for
1920 Heading Home Ruth Cards
1933 Uncle Jacks Candy Babe Ruth Card
1921 Frederick Foto Ruth
Joe Jackson Cards 1916 Advertising Backs
1910 Old Mills Joe Jackson
1914 Boston Garter Joe Jackson
1915 Cracker Jack Joe Jackson
1911 Pinkerton Joe Jackson
Shoeless Joe Jackson Autograph
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  #15  
Old 04-26-2023, 03:15 PM
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Ive never owned one. 😟
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  #16  
Old 04-26-2023, 03:25 PM
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Ed, that Athletics composite is awesome; let me know if you ever want to trade it.
Here are two with the New Orleans Pelicans, one with the Greenville Spinners, one with the Athletics and one with Chicago

I believe his rookie “card” is the E90-1 bc that is the first picture of him alone on a pro team. However, the T210 is truly one of the most desirable and rarest Joe Jackson cards, and I think, one of the top 10 baseball cards in the hobby.

The Spinner Cabinet is the oldest image I have of Joe; it was on the Spinners where he received his nickname “shoeless Joe”
Attached Images
File Type: jpg F2760C97-159C-4EC8-BE42-1050B5513D03.jpg (161.0 KB, 1587 views)
File Type: jpg 89B15376-477C-4BC2-81E8-E456B71309D2.jpg (93.4 KB, 1605 views)
File Type: jpg 8E22E1E9-2C37-40B8-AF0A-0AFE70BAE2D6.jpg (161.1 KB, 1617 views)
File Type: jpg DE184561-26F6-4437-8163-6AE568BCB148.jpg (123.4 KB, 1595 views)
File Type: jpg 1E05A619-F5DB-4F6B-9830-B56184CFFDEE.jpg (73.2 KB, 1599 views)

Last edited by Rhotchkiss; 04-26-2023 at 03:45 PM.
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  #17  
Old 04-26-2023, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss View Post
Ed, that Athletics composite is awesome; let me know if you ever want to trade it.
Here are two with the New Orleans Pelicans, one with the Greenville Spinners, one with the Athletics and one with Chicago

I believe his rookie “card” is the E90-1 bc that is the first picture of him alone on a pro team. However, the T210 is truly one of the most desirable and rarest Joe Jackson cards, and I think, one of the top 10 baseball cards in the hobby.

The Spinner Cabinet is the oldest image I have of Joe; it was on the Spinners where he received his nickname “shoeless Joe”
great items Ryan. If you ever want to trade that Cabinet Photo or the Pennant Winner we can talk..
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Looking for
1920 Heading Home Ruth Cards
1933 Uncle Jacks Candy Babe Ruth Card
1921 Frederick Foto Ruth
Joe Jackson Cards 1916 Advertising Backs
1910 Old Mills Joe Jackson
1914 Boston Garter Joe Jackson
1915 Cracker Jack Joe Jackson
1911 Pinkerton Joe Jackson
Shoeless Joe Jackson Autograph
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  #18  
Old 04-26-2023, 05:15 PM
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Here's mine...nothing as good as a lot of the rest, but I love the image.
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File Type: jpg 1913 Nat'l Game Joe Jackson.jpg (163.9 KB, 1569 views)
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Old 04-26-2023, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny T View Post
Here's mine...nothing as good as a lot of the rest, but I love the image.
Johnny

Do not sell yourself short. That is a great card at and a great pose

And at some point I will be attempting to get one of those for my collection
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Thanks all

Jeff Kuhr

https://www.flickr.com/photos/144250058@N05/

Looking for
1920 Heading Home Ruth Cards
1933 Uncle Jacks Candy Babe Ruth Card
1921 Frederick Foto Ruth
Joe Jackson Cards 1916 Advertising Backs
1910 Old Mills Joe Jackson
1914 Boston Garter Joe Jackson
1915 Cracker Jack Joe Jackson
1911 Pinkerton Joe Jackson
Shoeless Joe Jackson Autograph
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Old 04-26-2023, 05:56 PM
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Thanks Jeff
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  #21  
Old 04-26-2023, 06:08 PM
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BTW- the E90–1 Jackson is so difficult to find in nice condition. So many are diamond cut, or off center, or total beat up, or the red lips appear somewhere else on the face, including sometimes acting as a red mustache. I feel like many E90–1s suffer from these defects/issues, but I feel like Jackson suffers the most.
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Old 04-26-2023, 06:31 PM
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Don’t forget the M113. Tough to find in great condition. Not sure what year the Jackson is from, probably 1913.
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Old 04-26-2023, 07:41 PM
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Wish that I still had this one.
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  #24  
Old 04-26-2023, 09:04 PM
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Default My Joe Jackson

The only Joe Jackson I own was acquired this past weekend at REA.
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  #25  
Old 04-26-2023, 11:13 PM
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Police Gazette & caramel popcorn candy
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  #26  
Old 04-27-2023, 04:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robertsmithnocure View Post
Wish that I still had this one.
Wow. That is a great looking card; still the main pic is a bit tilted, but hands down one of the prettiest e90-1 Jacksons out there

Last edited by Rhotchkiss; 04-27-2023 at 06:03 AM.
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Old 04-27-2023, 05:39 AM
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This thread is insane!


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  #28  
Old 04-27-2023, 06:52 AM
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Thanks for comments on the w601. Right now just in PC. Here's another one that doesn't come out much. Just a little undergraded.




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  #29  
Old 04-27-2023, 08:49 AM
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Here is a type 1 photo of the 1907 Vic Mills team featuring a young Joe Jackson
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Old 04-27-2023, 09:04 AM
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Here are two of mine. Glad I got these when I did!!
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File Type: jpg Jackson, Joe 1913 WG5 PSA 9.jpg (195.2 KB, 1391 views)
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  #31  
Old 04-27-2023, 09:07 AM
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Y’all have posted some awesome Joe Jackson items. Ive always loved Ryan’s Greenville Spinners Cabinet from 1908. Let’s face it, you can’t go wrong with any of his cards. Here is a RPPC which was made from the same photo shoot from the type 1 photo posted above.
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Old 04-27-2023, 09:33 AM
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Jay, I was waiting for you to post, awesome!! Talk about rare… how about impossible
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Old 04-27-2023, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss View Post
Jay, I was waiting for you to post, awesome!! Talk about rare… how about impossible
+1 Agreed

Simply amazing and simply impossibly rare
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Looking for
1920 Heading Home Ruth Cards
1933 Uncle Jacks Candy Babe Ruth Card
1921 Frederick Foto Ruth
Joe Jackson Cards 1916 Advertising Backs
1910 Old Mills Joe Jackson
1914 Boston Garter Joe Jackson
1915 Cracker Jack Joe Jackson
1911 Pinkerton Joe Jackson
Shoeless Joe Jackson Autograph
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Old 04-27-2023, 12:32 PM
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Here’s one that hasn’t been posted. How about a Joe Jackson proof (uncut B18 missing color passes)
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  #35  
Old 04-27-2023, 12:38 PM
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I got nothing for you but a huge hats off to those who shared. Some incredible pieces that you simply do not see...EVER. Well done and thank you.
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Old 04-27-2023, 07:24 PM
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Awesome Jackson items. Especially love seeing the W601 Sporting Life supplement and the Victor Mills RPPC.
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Old 04-27-2023, 07:32 PM
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Not sure what year this is. But a very nice action shot of Joe.

TY, for the the nice words on the other items posted.
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  #38  
Old 04-28-2023, 07:08 PM
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These card and photo contributions are incredible!

I've updated and attached the POP Excel with what's been posted.
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  #39  
Old 04-28-2023, 09:08 PM
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Another game card a Birthday present from my Mom
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Last edited by rgpete; 04-29-2023 at 02:27 PM.
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Old 04-28-2023, 09:10 PM
Moonlight Graham Moonlight Graham is offline
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The W514 is one of my favorites! But my gosh the rest of those cards/pieces are just insane!!!

Joe K

Shoeless 2.jpg
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  #41  
Old 04-28-2023, 09:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brunswickreeves View Post
These card and photo contributions are incredible!

I've updated and attached the POP Excel with what's been posted.
I think your t210 pop is off. No way SGC has graded anywhere close to that many. I think there are like 13-15 combined between psa and SGC.
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  #42  
Old 04-28-2023, 10:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss View Post
I think your t210 pop is off. No way SGC has graded anywhere close to that many. I think there are like 13-15 combined between psa and SGC.
Yes, something is definitely way off.

For example:

https://www.gosgc.com/pop-report/res...00%29/Baseball

Per that Excel POP report listing, SGC has graded 0 T200 Cleveland items, yet the SGC page in the link I provided shows they've actually graded 139 total.

The PSA total shown on the Excel report is right on the money though at 189 graded.

https://www.psacard.com/pop/baseball...ima-team/49246
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  #43  
Old 04-28-2023, 11:23 PM
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Some more questionable figures:

First off, it should be 1914 B18 Blankets, and not B14 Blankets. And then, the Excel Pop Schedule shows only 2 ungraded Jacksons out there, that is it. PSA doesn't grade the B18 Blankets apparently, so showing 0 graded by them is correct. But for SGC, well here's their Pop Report for B18 Blankets, and looks like 46 graded, not the 0 shown on the Excel Pop Schedule.

https://www.gosgc.com/pop-report/res...nkets/Baseball

And as for Ryan's question on the T210 Jacksom Old Mill cards, I'm guessing there may be a mix-up and incorrect inclusion of different players also named Jackson, that appear in other Series of the T210 cards. IIRC, Joe Jackson appears in Series 8 only. Per PSA, they show a total of 9 graded T210 Joe Jackson cards, which agrees with the Excel Pop Schedule, while SGC appears to show a total of only 8 graded Joe Jackson cards, which definitely does not agree with the 67 shown per the Excel Pop Schedule.

https://www.psacard.com/pop/minor-le...series-8/81318

https://www.gosgc.com/pop-report/res...10%29/Baseball

These two examples, plus the earlier T200 cards, are the only three Joe Jackson cards I checked the graded numbers on between the actual PSA and SGC Pop Reports and the Excel Pop Schedule, and all three show major discrepancies. So, I'm not sure how accurate the rest of that Excel Pop Schedule actually is.

Last edited by BobC; 04-28-2023 at 11:28 PM.
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  #44  
Old 04-28-2023, 11:23 PM
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One Joe Jackson item that has not yet been shown in this thread, and added to the Excel Pop Schedule, is the 1916 BF2 Felt Pennants (Ferguson Bakery Pennants). Don't believe PSA grades these, while per SGC, they show a total of only 16 graded, though I know there are raw examples that exist out there as well.

https://www.gosgc.com/pop-report/res...akery/Baseball

Last edited by BobC; 04-28-2023 at 11:48 PM.
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  #45  
Old 04-29-2023, 02:57 AM
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Thanks very much for the cross reference and corrections. The T210 did throw me off because of the multiple Jacksons, and there are admittedly going to be some inadvertently overlooked. All documented POPs have come directly from the sites (used Grade, +, and Q), but there's always a chance of human error. The important thing is our community's great contributions and tweaks to get a full picture of Jacksons cards, which this thread is raising up and giving some unbridled joy by way of cards and photos shared. Attached is an updated version. Thanks Net54, keep 'em rolling in!
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Old 04-29-2023, 07:46 AM
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This is the only known example of this one...
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  #47  
Old 04-29-2023, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bugsy View Post
This is the only known example of this one...
Simply amazing eye appeal

Congrats on that piece
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Looking for
1920 Heading Home Ruth Cards
1933 Uncle Jacks Candy Babe Ruth Card
1921 Frederick Foto Ruth
Joe Jackson Cards 1916 Advertising Backs
1910 Old Mills Joe Jackson
1914 Boston Garter Joe Jackson
1915 Cracker Jack Joe Jackson
1911 Pinkerton Joe Jackson
Shoeless Joe Jackson Autograph
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  #48  
Old 04-29-2023, 10:19 AM
TUM301 TUM301 is offline
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WOW Bugs, being a huge Jackson fan can only say incredible piece. Enjoy that for a long time my man !
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  #49  
Old 04-29-2023, 06:10 PM
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And the 1914 CJ. About half the pop of the 1915 CJ issue.
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  #50  
Old 04-30-2023, 10:38 AM
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That’s a great card Ethan. Thanks for posting
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