Most Significant Hobby Find

[ErikV]

Over the years there have been numerous finds. In your opinion which of these was the most significant to the hobby?

[ullmandds]

While all of these finds were incredible in their own right...many such as the OJ find and T206 find we're ultimately absorbed into the hobby with no long-term repercussions. And while the recent lucky seven find is incredibly significant to those looking to add a Cobb Cobb to their collection... The majority of collectors can never hope to own such a card . For these reasons to me the black swamp find has been the most significant From a standpoint of forever affecting e98 values and perceptions due to the sheer quantity and quality of cards found.

[ZachS]

I'm familiar with pretty much all of these finds except 2004 National/1914 Crack Jack Collection Find. Could someone provide some background on this one?

[ErikV]

This was the press release from Mastro Auctions regarding the 2004 National/1914 Cracker Jack set:

There’s still a prize in every box. And so it seems, a few surprises still left in the world of sports card collecting. An exhilarating find of pristine 1914 Cracker Jacks, still in the original company envelope, surfaced at the recent National Sports Convention in Cleveland, OH. The set’s discovery and subsequent sale has taken the value of vintage baseball card sets to an unprecedented level.

In 1914, Cracker Jack sought to entice young buyers by including a baseball trading card in every box. Most existing 1914 Cracker Jack cards, long coveted by sports card collectors, display notorious staining from insertion next to the caramel candy and were further damaged by eager hands grabbing for the card. The recently sold set, however, features none of these defects.

“Our guess is that the cards came directly from the factory, were placed in a Cracker Jack company envelope and kept in the same family for all these decades as a keepsake. These cards were never inserted in any Cracker Jack boxes,” said Doug Allen, president of MastroNet, Inc., the auction house that represented the seller of the set.

Allen says the discovery of the cards represents a monumental event in the sports card collecting industry and provides some valuable insight. “There’s this impression that all of the great vintage material has been found. And then this fresh set of amazing cards walks in the door at the National. You just never know when the next “attic find” is going to show up,” said Allen. Allen’s excitement of being involved in the record sale is fueled not only by the high price and previously unknown existence of the cards, but also by their condition.

Sportscard Guaranty (SGC), a leading authentication and grading source, was chosen to assess the condition of the 144 cards in the set that features players such as Ty Cobb, Joe Jackson and Honus Wagner. “It’s hard to find words that would do this set justice,” said Dave Forman, president of SGC. “The Joe Jackson card , which grades Gem Mint 98, is the finest pre-war card our firm has ever graded. In my opinion it is the best pre-war card in existence period,” said Forman. The rest of the set, according to Forman grades overall near mint to mint or better. “Phenomenal is all I can say,” said Forman. “I see great cards every day. But this is definitely a career highlight. Sportscard Guaranty was honored to be selected to grade this monumental set.”

[ZachS]

Originally Posted by ErikV

“The Joe Jackson card , which grades Gem Mint 98

[Al C.risafulli]

In terms of sheer value and "wow" factor, I don't know how anything could eclipse the collection of CJs that walked into the National in 2004 and wound up being auctioned by Mastro.

In terms of what's interesting, I'm always drawn to finds of really rare, one-of-a-kind items that show up in insane places. The New York Knickerbockers photo from 1845-50 that was discovered in the attic of a cottage in upstate New York comes to mind. Not the most valuable piece by any stretch, but what a story! I love that stuff.

-Al

[RaidonCollects]

How about the 1952 Topps High # Mr. Mint Find?

-Owen

[bbcard1]

Will always have soft spot for the Southern Find where several hundred NM to M T206s walked into a no-name show in Richmond. I was close to a lot of the guys at that time (the 1980s) and always kicked myself for taking a pass on that show.

[packs]

This is how I feel about finds re: hobby importance:

If a find is something that only benefits the richest, most elite collectors, I don't really consider that find to be very significant for the hobby. I'm talking about the "Lucky 7" find here, and finds like it.

If a find means that the hobby now has hundreds or thousands of new cards being circulated within it, then I think that find is important to the hobby.

I would apply that thinking to the poll.

[bbcard1]

No love for the Detroit find?
http://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2015...baseball-cards

[JTysver]

Gotta go with the Al Rosen 1952 High Numbers find.

[Stonepony]

Originally Posted by JTysver

Gotta go with the Al Rosen 1952 High Numbers find.

Thats my vote

[RelicSports]

How about that Ruth rookie gamer that was found on ebay a couple years ago?

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Stonepony

Thats my vote

Same here. I believe a very high percentage of the high end 52 topps cards in existence came from this find including most, if not all of the psa 9 and 10 Mantles and other high series cards.

[bbcemporium]

Originally Posted by JTysver

Gotta go with the Al Rosen 1952 High Numbers find.

+1 for my vote

[atx840]

The T206 proofs that walked in to a show, including the Collins and 8 unissued SL players was pretty significant for the set.

[trdcrdkid]

Originally Posted by atx840

The T206 proofs that walked in to a show, including the Collins and 8 unissued SL players was pretty significant for the set.

I believe the eight unissued SLers were in a separate find from the Collins and other proofs. The latter walked into the fall 1973 New York show, while the eight SLers only came to light in 1999. See this article by Keith Olbermann:

http://t206resource.com/Article%20VC...0Men%20In.html

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by JTysver

Gotta go with the Al Rosen 1952 High Numbers find.

Me too.

[rats60]

I would go with Rosen's 52 Topps High Number find also. I think it brought new high end collectors into the hobby

[Duluth Eskimo]

I vote for the Rosen find as much as it pains me to say. That was incredible. I still remember the ads in SCD advertising nm/mt Mantle's for a couple thousand. These were only slightly off center. I think he said there was like 10 that were centered and gem mint (80's version). You could also get full high number sets or anything else you wanted from that run. Where's the time machine.

[tedzan]

Hey guys....Yes were in the pre-WWII section of this forum; however, I agree with all the folks who posted here regarding Al Rosen's tremendous find in the mid-1980's
of the 1952 TOPPS Hi#'s (and Semi-Hi #'s) cards. Can you imagine 40 near Mint Mantle cards ! Including 21 complete runs of Hi#'s (#311 - 407). Furthermore, 37 runs
of Semi-Hi#'s (#251 - 310). If you do the math, this find totals approx. 5000 cards.

I remember this "happening" very well; and, the significance that I am trying to convey to all of you is......this post-WWII card find affected the value of all cards across
the spectrum (1887 - 1967).

For example......prior to this find you could purchase a T206 Cobb (Ex) for less than $100. Within a year (or two), vintage cards doubled and tripled in value, as a result
of this find.


TED Z
.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by rats60

I would go with Rosen's 52 Topps High Number find also. I think it brought new high end collectors into the hobby

you convinced me...the rosen 52 topps find had the most dramatic impact on the hobby itself...as a whole!

[mrvster]

proof find Chris! +1

my vote definitely

[glynparson]

The Rosen 1952 high number find. Nothing even close to it IMHO.

[Griffins]

Agree with the '52 Topps find, but the Tango Eggs find should rank up there as well. An issue that hadn't really been seen for 75+ years and then pops up.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Griffins

Agree with the '52 Topps find, but the Tango Eggs find should rank up there as well. An issue that hadn't really been seen for 75+ years and them pops up.

ya but practically noone cares about tango eggs!!!

[doug.goodman]

I agree with the 52 Topps Rosen find...

[GoldenAge50s]

When I saw the list of choices, I quickly hit "Other", as I consider the Rosen Topps find #1 all-time!

His subsequent 1954-55 Bowman find was quite a deal also, and would be even more important if they weren't roach-infested!

[irv]

Originally Posted by RaidonCollects

How about the 1952 Topps High # Mr. Mint Find?

-Owen

Only because I received some 52's, I also think this as well.

Other than this find, and the current Cobb find, I really know nothing about the other ones, but will read up on them.
http://www.psacard.com/Articles/Arti...-baseball-find

[Griffins]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

ya but practically noone cares about tango eggs!!!

This is what makes people anti dentites!

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Griffins

This is what makes people anti dentites!

you anti dentite bastard!

[iowadoc77]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

you anti dentite bastard!

A rabid anti-dentite for sure.

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by Griffins

This is what makes people anti dentites!

Next, you'll be saying they should have their own schools.

[GasHouseGang]

I just figured the 52 Topps find wasn't on the list since this is the pre-war board. But I have to admit, that was the first thing that came to mind.

[Rich Klein]

The Rosen 52 find was the catalyst for all these other finds in terms of how to promote a new grouping of cards coming into the hobby

Because of that, it *IS* the most important hobby find

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hey guys..Yes were in the pre-WWII section of this forum; however, I agree with all the folks who posted here regarding Al Rosen's tremendous find in the mid-1980's
of the 1952 TOPPS Hi#'s (and Semi-Hi #'s) cards. Can you imagine 40 near mint Mantle cards ! ?

Including 21 complete runs of Hi#'s (#311 - 407). Furthermore, 37 complete runs of Semi-Hi#'s (#251 - 310). If you do the math, this find totals approx. 5000 cards.

I remember this "happening" very well; and, the significance that I am trying to convey to all of you is....this post-WWII card find affected the value of all cards across
the spectrum (1887 - 1967).

For example....prior to this find you could purchase a T206 Cobb (Ex) for less than $100. Within a year (or two), vintage cards doubled and tripled in value, as a result
of this find.


TED Z
.

My recollection is that Rosen quickly sold 15 complete runs of the Hi #'s (97 cards) for $15,000 per run.

And, you'll love this....I was acquiring near mint Hi # commons for "pennies". I had hoarded 1984 Topps Mattingly and Strawberry rookie cards.
And, I was trading them to dealers for the 1952 Topps Hi #s from Rosen's find. For example: four Mattingly's for a 1952 Topps Burgess.

You just have to love this hobby....and, certainly back in the 1980's.


TED Z
.

[111gecko]

Great topic. Knowing about all of these 'finds'; I often wonder about the ones that weren't public. I can imagine over the years collectors have picked up monster deals that either 1) didn't want to flood the market with cards, or 2) bought the deal for virtually nothing and don't want anyone to know about it.

[soxinseven]

I agree with Alan Rosen's 52 Topps find being the most significant but I was more fascinated by the Beantown find because it involved the board and had multiple issues that were found. I have to think that most board members have a card from that find in their collection.

[David W]

Originally Posted by JTysver

Gotta go with the Al Rosen 1952 High Numbers find.

Agreed, although the Black Swamp and Lucky 7 are quite remarkable.

[ullmandds]

so i think the question should be rephrased. many agree the 52 topps "find" had the most profound effect on the hobby...but what do y'all feel is the most significant "vintage" find...which is the way i interpreted the poll?

[irv]

Originally Posted by tedzan

My recollection is that Rosen quickly sold 15 complete runs of the Hi #'s (97 cards) for $15,000 per run.

And, you'll love this....I was acquiring near mint Hi # commons for "pennies". I had hoarded 1984 Topps Mattingly and Strawberry rookie cards.
And, I was trading them to dealers for the 1952 Topps Hi #s from Rosen's find. For example: four Mattingly's for a 1952 Topps Burgess.

You just have to love this hobby....and, certainly back in the 1980's.


TED Z
.

Nice!

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

....but what do y'all feel is the most significant "vintage" find...which is the way i interpreted the poll?

Hey Pete

Where in the title of this thread, or in the first post does it say...."vintage" ?

But, in the poll it does ask for...."Other"


TED Z
.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

so i think the question should be rephrased. many agree the 52 topps "find" had the most profound effect on the hobby...but what do y'all feel is the most significant "vintage" find...which is the way i interpreted the poll?

Is a card from 1952 not considered vintage? I don't know where you draw the line but I've always considered anything pre-1970 vintage.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hey Pete

Where in the title of this thread, or in the first post does it say...."vintage" ?

But, in the poll it does ask for...."Other"


TED Z
.

Well this is supposed to be a vintage pre-World War II message board after all ... And seeing as all of the choices include cards produced prior to 1920...silly me... I just assumed that is what was implied.

It's easy to forget there is another section devoted to more modern card such as Mickey Mantle rookies... Yet overtime this section has become overrun with it! Maybe it is time to recategorize the sections .

[tedzan]

Pete

Just jesting with you

An occasional post regarding post-WWII stuff in this section is OK....especially if it was influential in affecting things in the vintage area.

Which I think the Rosen find was....in that many subsequent finds during the 1980's were of pre-war cards.


TED Z
.

[Leon]

Depending on how we look at it, we ourselves, can be considered vintage....which kind of sucks except for the alternative.

Originally Posted by tedzan

Pete

Just jesting with you

An occasional post regarding post-WWII stuff in this section is OK....especially if it was influential in affecting things in the vintage area.

Which I think the Rosen find was....in that many subsequent finds during the 1980's were of pre-war cards.


TED Z
.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by tedzan

And, you'll love this....I was acquiring near mint Hi # commons for "pennies". I had hoarded 1984 Topps Mattingly and Strawberry rookie cards.
And, I was trading them to dealers for the 1952 Topps Hi #s from Rosen's find. For example: four Mattingly's for a 1952 Topps Burgess.

You just have to love this hobby....and, certainly back in the 1980's.


TED Z
.

I don't mean to derail the thread, but for some reason this post reminds me of an eBay listing I saw a couple days ago. Look at the article in the background. A dealer purchased 40,000 Gary Sheffield rookies for $30K. As Ted said, "You just have to love this hobby....and, certainly back in the 1980's."

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1988-Donruss...p2047675.l2557

[rats60]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Well this is supposed to be a vintage pre-World War II message board after all ... And seeing as all of the choices include cards produced prior to 1920...silly me... I just assumed that is what was implied.

It's easy to forget there is another section devoted to more modern card such as Mickey Mantle rookies... Yet overtime this section has become overrun with it! Maybe it is time to recategorize the sections .

This poll only lists finds from the last 12 years. There have been many finds prior to that that should be on this list.

[ErikV]

All,

Sorry, it was never my intention when I created this poll to have
people argue as to the definition of vintage, to exclude any
significant find, or the like. While I originally intended the poll to
include vintage (WW I era) card finds, I was not even aware of the
1952 Topps Rosen find. I tried to think of as many of the most
noteworthy finds, but never intended to exclude any one find in
particular. In any case, it's been a good conversation with a good
amount of feedback.

Now back to baseball card talk....

ErikV

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by ErikV

All,

Sorry, it was never my intention when I created this poll to have
people argue as to the definition of vintage, to exclude any
significant find, or the like. While I originally intended the poll to
include vintage (WW I era) card finds, I was not even aware of the
1952 Topps Rosen find. I tried to think of as many of the most
noteworthy finds, but never intended to exclude any one find in
particular. In any case, it's been a good conversation with a good
amount of feedback.

Now back to baseball card talk....

ErikV

Erik

Apology not necessary......Rosen's original 1952 Topps find in itself is an amazing discovery; however, just as significant are his some of his subsequent finds of vintage cards.

Listed here are the ones I'm aware of......

Back in 1982 Rosen and I were set-up at opposite tables at a Show in Kenilworth (NJ). He told me of an original Tobacco card collection he had then acquired. It included 100-
T3's....100's of T205's and T206's....plus M116's in their original packages. I think it was his first vintage card find.

1986....Rosen traveled to Boston for his famous 1952 Topps Hi #'s (including Semi-Hi #'s) find.

1988....he had another find of approx. 1500 original T-cards. This one included mint T3's....800 cards of T206's....plus about 250 - T205's, and 250 - T207's.

1989....Rosen traveled to Florida to acquire an original find of 4 unopened (24-count) boxes of 2nd series 1949 LEAF BB cards (Single Prints)....a total of 576 cards. It was an
amazing find, considering the scarcity of these Single Print cards at that time.

1990....he acquired an original collection of several 100's of 1932 U.S. Caramel cards (both BB and the Presidents issues).


TED Z
.