Partially ripping a card opening the mail

[sbfinley]

Originally Posted by bnorth

It really saddens me to see how many people think the guy that ripped the card should get a refund.

This is 100% on the seller. It doesn't matter if it ripped in Pete's hands. If you purchase something of value you have to be able to assume that if you open it in a reasonable manner you won't damage it. Ripping an envelope is a reasonable way to open an envelope. As a matter of fact, unless new envelopes are also transformers, it is the only way. If the card is in a toploader or cs1 it's fine, if it's between cardboard it would have been fine. Pete ripped an envelope, because envelopes have three purposes:

1) Put something in envelope.
2) Close envelope.
3) Open envelope.

They way I have been taught the steps is:

1) Insert item or document with hands.
2) Sealed with adhesive (primarily with hands.)
3) Opened with hands or sharp object.

I'm sorry it saddens you that this is the only way I've been taught to interact with envelopes.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by sbfinley

This is 100% on the seller. It doesn't matter if it ripped in Pete's hands. If you purchase something of value you have to be able to assume that if you open it in a reasonable manner you won't damage it. Ripping an envelope is a reasonable way to open an envelope. As a matter of fact, unless new envelopes are also transformers, it is the only way. If the card is in a toploader or cs1 it's fine, if it's between cardboard it would have been fine. Pete ripped an envelope, because envelopes have three purposes:

1) Put something in envelope.
2) Close envelope.
3) Open envelope.

They way I have been taught the steps is:

1) Insert item or document with hands.
2) Sealed with adhesive (primarily with hands.)
3) Opened with hands or sharp object.

I'm sorry it saddens you that this is the only way I've been taught to interact with envelopes.

I usually have some inkling that there might be a card within regardless of the packaging.

So if the card was packed in a block of ice, I might choose to let the ice melt, rather than use an ice pick or sledge hammer.

If the card was distributed in boxes of cereal, I might choose to pour the cereal out of box until I could see and easily remove the card, rather than dive into the box with my grimy paw to search and destroy.

Or if the card was contained in one of those molded hard plastic packages that are difficult to open by any technique, I might choose not to open it at all.

And if I received 100 envelopes that day and knew there was a card in only one, I would look at the return addresses to determine which envelopes could safely opened by the "grip it and rip it" methodology, if that was the only way I had been taught to interact with an envelope.

[ALR-bishop]

Everyone seems to agree the method of shipping was completely unreasonable. Most, but not all, think the seller is responsible for the damage that occurred after the item arrived. The question I raised earlier is assuming the seller tells ebay the item arrived undamaged but that it was damaged in opening the package because the method of packing was unreasonable, what is ebay likely to do in that situation ? I guess we will find out.

I have personally come closer to damaging cards I received because they were entombed in tape and bubble wrap to protect them Patience in opening is a true virtue.

I have to say Frank, I have not yet experienced the block of ice shipping method

[steve B]

It can be debated whose fault it is.

What I can say is that had it been insured the USPS wouldn't pay out because it was packed poorly. I've seen this firsthand with a damaged phonograph that wasn't packed with enough packing material. Oddly the USPS people themselves recommended adding packing material to the package before bringing it in for inspection. "Make sure there's enough packing material in the box or we won't cover it" They did cover repairs done by someone in the business based on a quote. The reduced amount probably made it easier.

Funny story.
A friend used to sell needles for the old Victrolas. One day he gets home to find a message on the machine from the FBI. One of the buyers forgot he'd bought them and called the police about the "suspicious package" he'd just received. What was pretty cool was that by the time he'd come home the package had been "neutralized " and the agents were only wondering if they were correct in thinking the contents were Victrola needles. A quick explanation and the number of the Ebay listing cleared it all up. The guy left positive feedback and never asked for replacements for the ones that got blown up.


Steve B

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by steve B

It can be debated whose fault it is.

What I can say is that had it been insured the USPS wouldn't pay out because it was packed poorly....

No, USPS wouldn't pay out because it was delivered safely and they don't consider it their responsibility to stand by and assist the recipient in opening his envelope.

[Bridwell]

Ebay and PayPal tend to support the buyer. I agree that Pete deserves a full refund and I expect he will get it from Ebay or PayPal. It amazes me how sellers can be so careless in their packaging. Careless packaging is clearly the sellers fault, IMO.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Mark17

No, USPS wouldn't pay out because it was delivered safely and they don't consider it their responsibility to stand by and assist the recipient in opening his envelope.

The item I saw firsthand was also delivered "safely" - No apparent damage to the box on delivery. The damage was entirely due to poor packing.

A card simply placed in an envelope with nothing else is poorly packed, and proper packing is the shippers responsibility.

Steve B

[Mdmtx]

I feel badly for the op and I agree that the seller failed. But I also believe the op failed to exercise caution and the liability should be shared by each. Neither party is 100% liable or 100% clear. Maybe the best outcome would be a 50/50 deal. Just my .02.

Mark Medlin

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by steve B

The item I saw firsthand was also delivered "safely" - No apparent damage to the box on delivery. The damage was entirely due to poor packing.

A card simply placed in an envelope with nothing else is poorly packed, and proper packing is the shippers responsibility.

Steve B

Totally different situation. You're right, your item was damaged in transit. You didn't contribute to the damage (let alone cause it) because the damage occurred before it was in your possession.

The OP damaged his own card after it had been successfully shipped and delivered without damage. The seller didn't damage it, neither did the carrier. It arrived safely.

Here's a question: Suppose the OP brought the envelope with the card in it over to a coffee table and before opening it, spilled something liquid on it. Would he claim that to be the fault/responsibility of the seller, too, since had it been packaged better, it wouldn't have sustained damage?