1967 Tom Seaver RC Reprint...

[Harliduck]

I was night owling it last night and hit refresh to find this -

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1967-TOM-SE...rdt=true&rt=nc


$499 or Best Offer. Seller has 8 feedback, several of what he has sold are reprints, and he has reprints listed. As a buyer you want to make it real so you keep digging...haha...even though you KNOW it's a reprint. Wear looks consistent with a reprint on the front, but dang, the back looks ok...then I noticed he actually called out it's a reprint in the stock information...Zero mention anywhere else. I saved the listing wondering if anyone fell for it in the morning...sure enough...someone bought it.

Scary the reprints that are out there...and even though I am a raw card kinda guy, I still buy my big cards graded just in case. Kinda feel bad for whoever bought it, but then again, I don't...

[jingram058]

I am a raw card guy also. My collection is entirely raw, and I am actively working toward completing a 53 Bowman color set. That said...the fakery going on is only going to increase with cards increasing exponentially in value. Card experts in these forums have had any number of discussions on it, and the estimates on percentages is frightening. Used to be that the fakes stood out, like sore thumbs. But that is changing, and the level of effort going into some of the fakes is mind-boggling; vintage cardboard, inks, printing techniques, etc., that will stand up to loupe and blacklight examination, weight and feel, and make it past experienced graders. With the value of some of these cards, it only stands to reason. I don't believe any of my cards are fakes, but if they are exactly like the original in every way, how can you be certain?

[cardsagain74]

Originally Posted by jingram058

But that is changing, and the level of effort going into some of the fakes is mind-boggling; vintage cardboard, inks, printing techniques, etc., that will stand up to loupe and blacklight examination, weight and feel, and make it past experienced graders.

Do you have any links where people had any proof that this is happening at the level that many claim? I'm not doubting (or supporting) that it's going on, just wish we all knew more about it.

My very non-expert opinion has been that the polar opposite opinions of "oh it's not hard at all to know any fake (once you've gotten used to handling vintage" or "more advances fakes has flooded the market and so few know" are both way too exaggerated, and if the first statement was a 1 and the second a 10, that the truth is somewhere around a 3.

And I could be very wrong. But if I am, I'd love more proof than bitter forum people making claims that "I know this is happening here or there"

That is not describing you though Referring to the stories you've read elsewhere

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by cardsagain74

Do you have any links where people had any proof that this is happening at the level that many claim? I'm not doubting (or supporting) that it's going on, just wish we all knew more about it.

Here is a link to an excellent study, given the recent (sad) passing of Hank Aaron:

https://allvintagecards.com/spot-fak...n-rookie-card/

I can't search the net54 forum threads with my Android phone for some darned reason, but there are several that go into detail.

[Harliduck]

Wow...same card right back up...crazy -


https://www.ebay.com/itm/1967-TOM-SE...gHOvg&LH_BIN=1

[cardsagain74]

Originally Posted by jingram058

Here is a link to an excellent study, given the recent (sad) passing of Hank Aaron:

https://allvintagecards.com/spot-fak...n-rookie-card/

I can't search the net54 forum threads with my Android phone for some darned reason, but there are several that go into detail.

Thanks, but that study is about spotting the typical signs of a fake. I was referring to the claims you mentioned that fakes freely exist that pass all of the typical tests (flashlight, pixel print pattern, card stock "feel", etc) and are completely indiscernible from the real thing

[stlcardsfan]

Originally Posted by Harliduck

Wow...same card right back up...crazy -


https://www.ebay.com/itm/1967-TOM-SE...gHOvg&LH_BIN=1

That is a very good reprint. And yes the seller is very misleading.

[jingram058]

Yes, the other link points out how to detect fakes.

This one states fakes being sold as legitimate, and is fairly recent, as in the past year:

https://seekingalpha.com/article/438...ecommerce-boom

Again, search these threads. It has been discussed by people far more knowledgeable than me.

[cardsagain74]

Originally Posted by jingram058

This one states fakes being sold as legitimate, and is fairly recent, as in the past year:

https://seekingalpha.com/article/438...ecommerce-boom

Again, search these threads. It has been discussed by people far more knowledgeable than me.

That link also has nothing to do with my point. It's a very quick glimpse of looking at a fake vs real Lebron rookie card on the surface (from someone who doesn't appear to have any expertise in breaking down the difference)

I have searched this forum's threads about it. Simply looked up "fake" and went back almost 10 years. This is the closest thing that I found that discusses fakes that are supposedly indiscernible from the real thing, and even there, a seasoned vet (Steve Birmingham) feels he can tell the difference, and still mentions the same thing I referenced above (that the "ones that are wrong will be more obvious after you've seen enough originals").

https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=253875

Which circles back around to what I first said: on one side of the argument, there are people like Steve there. On the other side, there are those who make claims like some place in New Jersey is pouring out perfectly undetectable fakes by the thousands (that's one I remember seeing myself somewhere). Which, btw, I googled "baseball card fakes new jersey" and came up with nothing else. Just the high profile guy who was trimming/altering. Maybe the person who said that was just mixing it all together.

Anyway....as someone with a lot of raw vintage myself, I'd also love to know where the truth lies on that spectrum. There's probably no way us laymen will ever know enough for sure, but my inkling is that opinions like Steve Birminghams are closer to reality than to unsubstantiated rumors of rampant perfect forgeries that can easily fool everyone.

And again, if someone has evidence to the contrary, feel free to correct me!