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Baines had 1 top 10 finish in the MVP voting. Beltran had 2. So neither one was dominating their leagues in the era they played. I don’t think you can make an argument for or against one and not the other. You can show me WAR and black ink to “prove” that one was superior to the other but they were very similar players - offensively. Baines has become the poster boy for bad HOF inductees. My argument is only that he’s a pretty good pick, that he had a very nice career and is getting a bad rap. Put him in and Beltran too. |
#2
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20yrs bWAR - 67.1 2446 Hits 385 HR .272/.370/.470 127 OPS+ 2 Top 5 MVP finishes ALso finished 7, 9 and 11 in MVP voting in other years 9 GG (interestingly, BR gives his a career negative defensive WAR - this surprised me. Just looking at his D WAR, he was a mediocre to terrible defender after he turned 30) |
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After a few years, people stopped running on him, something that doesn't show in any stats I know of. So that might have something to do with a defensive dropoff. Not many chances for outfield assists if nobody tries to take an extra base. |
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__________________
My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#7
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And 300 steals is nothing to sniff at, either. I look at it this way, if you're building a tower for each player based on their HOF qualifications, you give them both a similar sized "hitting" block. The difference is that then Baines is done. All he did was hit. If you give Beltran a block for defense and a block for baserunning, his tower is substantially taller than Baines, even if the two additional blocks aren't as big. In terms of WAR, I'd guess Baines and Beltran's offensive WAR (minus baserunning) is probably similar enough. Baines would have somewhat negative baserunning and defense. Meanwhile, Beltran would have positive baserunning and defense. Now, whether either tower reaches HOF levels or not is another debate....but it's hard to argue that Beltran's isn't the better case. Last edited by Mike D.; 05-22-2019 at 12:40 PM. |
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I really don't see it even being close between them. Beltran's 2006 season was better than any two of Baines'. And I mean that literally. Beltran put up an 8.2 WAR that year. The highest Baines ever put out was 4.3.
Last edited by packs; 05-22-2019 at 01:46 PM. |
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