Gone with the stain

[Peter_Spaeth]

He takes out creases. He has touted his success. Anyone want to defend that?

[barrysloate]

People generally use the product on lower grade cards and turn them into higher grade cards. Does anyone feel that is ethical?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

He takes out creases. He has touted his success. Anyone want to defend that?

It does increase the eye appeal and can get the best most accurate grading company PSA to give them the better grade they deserve.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

He takes out creases. He has touted his success. Anyone want to defend that?

Do cards come from Topps with creases and spider wrinkles? Just curious. I'm not old enough to have opened a pack of 1952 Topps when they were new.

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Do cards come from Topps with creases and spider wrinkles? Just curious. I'm not old enough to have opened a pack of 1952 Topps when they were new.

I can attest that I pulled many a creased or ripped card out of packs in the late 70’s-early 80’s as a pre-teen.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman

I can attest that I pulled many a creased or ripped card out of packs in the late 70’s-early80’s as a pre-teen.

You shouldn't have used your claws.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

You shouldn't have used your claws.

Peter uses his teeth.

[MULLINS5]

I don't see anything wrong with restoration services. I've never had trading cards restored, but understand raw collectors may want some of their cards to have better eye-appeal. Yes, these cards may enter the hobby, but we paid PSA, SGC, BGS, etc, to detect them, right?

Personally I don't like the way they advertise their work getting past grading companies, but given everything that came out recently I guess that wasn't too difficult to achieve.

Think positive - this isn't worth getting all worked-up over.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by MULLINS5

I don't see anything wrong with restoration services. I've never had trading cards restored, but understand raw collectors may want some of their cards to have better eye-appeal. Yes, these cards may enter the hobby, but we paid PSA, SGC, BGS, etc, to detect them, right?

Personally I don't like the way they advertise their work getting past grading companies, but given everything that came out recently I guess that wasn't too difficult to achieve.

Think positive - this isn't worth getting all worked-up over.

So you're Ok with paying the high grade bonus price when the card is actually altered?

And you're Ok with me paying a higher price because the altered restored cards in higher grades bring more so the lower grade examples increase in price?

Gee... thanks... I guess.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman

I can attest that I pulled many a creased or ripped card out of packs in the late 70’s-early80’s as a pre-teen.

Early 90's I was standing next to a guy at the local shop who pulled a card that was entirely torn in half from a pack.
If I had been able to think of any way to prove it was in the pack like that, I'd have bought it. But I couldn't think of anything. (He got a new pack for free from the dealer, and the card went in the trash. ) I do have a card related scrap from classic, which is the bit of paper from between the cards. That also came put of a pack.

[KCRfan1]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

He takes out creases. He has touted his success. Anyone want to defend that?

If the card was for my personal collection, never to be sold or traded, I would certainly have him remove a crease.

While Towle discloses what he does, it needs to carry to the card owner to provide full disclosure. This is where problems begin and deception.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by KCRfan1

If the card was for my personal collection, never to be sold or traded, I would certainly have him remove a crease.

While Towle discloses what he does, it needs to carry to the card owner to provide full disclosure. This is where problems begin and deception.

Try asking him for a list of cards he has worked on and for whom, and see just how transparent he is. There's no meaningful disclosure, just some generalities which are essentially advertisements for his services. At best he is knowingly enabling deception. And touting it.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Try asking him for a list of cards he has worked on and for whom, and see just how transparent he is. There's no meaningful disclosure, just some generalities which are essentially advertisements for his services. At best he is knowingly enabling deception. And touting it.

And you think Towle is as bad as Moser??

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

And you think Towle is as bad as Moser??

No. There's a spectrum and trimming is at the far end of it.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

No. There's a spectrum and trimming is at the far end of it.

Trimming is bad. Color touching is worse than bad. I am dismayed that PSA can't catch green that was added to that Clemente rookie card.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Trimming is bad. Color touching is worse than bad. I am dismayed that PSA can't catch green that was added to that Clemente rookie card.

If they can’t or they don’t care ? Please Submit Again

Our card submissions are up like ever before blah blah blah

Adding or removing anything from a cards original state is a no go to me

[drcy]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Trimming is bad. Color touching is worse than bad. I am dismayed that PSA can't catch green that was added to that Clemente rookie card.

I've always considered trimming worse than coloring, but that's me and they're both bad.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Try asking him for a list of cards he has worked on and for whom, and see just how transparent he is. There's no meaningful disclosure, just some generalities which are essentially advertisements for his services. At best he is knowingly enabling deception. And touting it.

I would hope that no business would just hand over customer information without a court order. It has nothing to do with transparency, some people just value their privacy. Even if they aren't breaking any laws or committing fraud.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I would hope that no business would just hand over customer information without a court order. It has nothing to do with transparency, some people just value their privacy. Even if they aren't breaking any laws or committing fraud.

Of course they value their privacy in this context, they don't want people to know they're selling doctored cards that they snuck past the TPGs. How many cards have you ever seen for sale where someone said, Dick Towle worked on this card and here's what he did?

PS I don't really expect Towle to disclose his client list, it's more a rhetorical point that he's knowingly assisting people in deception so I give him no credit at all for his supposed transparency.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Of course they value their privacy in this context, they don't want people to know they're selling doctored cards that they snuck past the TPGs. How many cards have you ever seen for sale where someone said, Dick Towle worked on this card and here's what he did?

PS I don't really expect Towle to disclose his client list, it's more a rhetorical point that he's knowingly assisting people in deception.

I don't disagree with any of the points you've made. My point was that any business should deny a request to hand over customer lists or transaction history. Regardless of the service or product they provide.

As for gone with the stain they definitely operate in a gray area. I've never used their services. But as others have noted at least they're up front and honest about what they do, even if some of their clients aren't.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I don't disagree with any of the points you've made. My point was that any business should deny a request to hand over customer lists or transaction history. Regardless of the service or product they provide.

As for gone with the stain they definitely operate in a gray area. I've never used their services. But as others have noted at least they're up front and honest about what they do, even if some of their clients aren't.

At some point in my estimation it's wrong to knowingly enable people committing fraud, even if you're not committing fraud yourself. And yes I am sure that if we were to fully explore this there would be nuances and gray areas.

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Of course they value their privacy in this context, they don't want people to know they're selling doctored cards that they snuck past the TPGs. How many cards have you ever seen for sale where someone said, Dick Towle worked on this card and here's what he did?



PS I don't really expect Towle to disclose his client list, it's more a rhetorical point that he's knowingly assisting people in deception so I give him no credit at all for his supposed transparency.

Maybe we could set up ole Dick with a sticker of his own. So when a prospective buyer sees the scarlet (or whatever color he might choose) Dick sticker, they know they are getting something...conserved...altered...special.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[KCRfan1]

Michael, bigbeergut, I'm still waiting for you to answer if you believe soaking a card, which some on this forum has done, is as bad as what Towle does.

So far, all you are doing is trolling.