Hall of Fame Ballot Announced

[paul]

I can't believe no one has mentioned that the Hall of Fame ballot has been announced.

https://baseballhall.org/discover/co...er-ballot-2023

It will be interesting to see how Curt Schilling does. I'm rooting against the steroid guys -- Bonds, Clemens, and Palmeiro.

[raulus]

Yep. If we ignore it, then it never happened!

[etsmith]

Not ignoring it, but not rewarding it either.

[KCRfan1]

I am good with Clemens, Schilling, Bonds, and Palmero.

[isiahfan]

CONTEMPORARY...Please be clear about that...only need 12/16...taking the juice out the equation....because well I feel it was just part of the era for each

My votes:

Obvious Yes
Bonds - Top 10 ATG OF
Clemens - Top 10 ATG SP

Yes
Palmiero - Look at his #'s...only 4 AS???...IN

Leaning towards Yes
McGriff - Better numbers than those listed below...quiet but stats don't lie
Belle - Man...Feels like a no because of the narrative...but dude had a 10 year run of total domination...right there with Frank and the Kid suring that time. Puckett didn't dominate like this for 10 years...actually not many did.

No
Schilling - wasn't super consistent and total numbers just aren't there for me...great postseason success doesn't equal HOF
Mattingly - Total numbers and lenght of dominant run just don't add up
Murphy - Great guy...but again total numbers just don;t do it for me

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by isiahfan

CONTEMPORARY...Please be clear about that...only need 12/16...taking the juice out the equation....because well I feel it was just part of the era for each

My votes:

Obvious Yes
Bonds - Top 10 ATG OF
Clemens - Top 10 ATG SP

Yes
Palmiero - Look at his #'s...only 4 AS???...IN

Leaning towards Yes
McGriff - Better numbers than those listed below...quiet but stats don't lie
Belle - Man...Feels like a no because of the narrative...but dude had a 10 year run of total domination...right there with Frank and the Kid suring that time. Puckett didn't dominate like this for 10 years...actually not many did.

No
Schilling - wasn't super consistent and total numbers just aren't there for me...great postseason success doesn't equal HOF
Mattingly - Total numbers and lenght of dominant run just don't add up
Murphy - Great guy...but again total numbers just don;t do it for me

good recap just depends on the opinion the voters have on steriods. to me Schilling should be in

[insidethewrapper]

Was Lou Whitaker not eligible for this committee since he started in 1977 ? What was the cut off year ?

[G1911]

Originally Posted by insidethewrapper

Was Lou Whitaker not eligible for this committee since he started in 1977 ? What was the cut off year ?

It’s for players whose “primary contribution” was after 1980, so I think Whitaker would have qualified to be considered for this final ballot. That he started in 1977 shouldn’t put him into the pre-1980 primary contribution group.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by paul

I can't believe no one has mentioned that the Hall of Fame ballot has been announced.

There was a thread in the Sports watercooler.

[Snowman]

Bonds and Clemens both deserve to be in the hall IMO.

[Jim65]

I used to be against Bonds, Clemens and Palmiero getting in the HOF but now that we have a known PED cheater in, its unfair to keep them out.

McGriff should get in, Belle and Schilling are deserving but probably do not get in.

[bxb]

My understanding is that there are 16 voters, who get a maximum of 3 votes each. This leads to a total of 48 votes maximum.

Players must get 75% to get in (i.e. 12 or more of the 16 voters).

So at most 4 players can get in (48 divided by 12).

Somebody double check my math here, I have not had my morning coffee yet.

[ejharrington]

Schilling should get in.

[philo98]

delete

[bmattioli]

Originally Posted by Jim65

I used to be against Bonds, Clemens and Palmiero getting in the HOF but now that we have a known PED cheater in, its unfair to keep them out.

McGriff should get in, Belle and Schilling are deserving but probably do not get in.

Who are you referring to?

[jamest206]

No strike, no PED’s. Let them in!

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by bmattioli

Who are you referring to?

David Ortiz.

Ortiz himself has confirmed he failed a test. It's not a rumor, it's not "supposedly", etc.

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/d...sted-positive/

[bcbgcbrcb]

Because of favoritism along with being the three without any baggage, I see the M & M & M boys getting in, that's it.

These would definitely not be my choices, I would go with Bonds & Clemens as no doubters.

[michael3322]

Surely Harold Baines will give up his place in the HOF for any of these far more deserving players…surely…


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[Lucas00]

Just putting it out there, if Bonds and Clemens get in. Manny Ramirez better shortly follow. He was no slouch on the roids.

[Mike D.]

Originally Posted by Lucas00

Just putting it out there, if Bonds and Clemens get in. Manny Ramirez better shortly follow. He was no slouch on the roids.

The real ding against Manny is that while Bonds and Clemens are suspected steroid users, they never failed a test once baseball finally implemented testing.

Manny failed not one, but TWO such tests...if he ever makes it, he's at the back of the line, not the front.

[Gorditadogg]

Here are 162-game comparisons for all the 1st base HOF candidates we have been discussing:

NAME HR RBI AVG OPS+
Allen... 33 104 .292 156
McGriff 32 102 .284 134
Helton. 27 101 .316 133
Olerud. 18 -89 .295 129
Herndz 13 -86 .296 128
Mattgly 20 100 .307 127
Garvey 19 -91 .294 117

Allen's prime years were in the pitcher's era of the late 60's and early 70's when fences were back and HRs were hard to hit, yet his offensive numbers are better than anyone else in the group. His OPS+ which adjusts for the era, is far and away the best. In fact Allen's 156 is 23rd all-time in OPS+, tied with Frank Thomas and just ahead of Aaron, Mays, DiMaggio, and Ott. Meanwhile McGriff is tied at 134 with fellow 1st baseman Abreu, Prince Fielder, John Kruk and Boog Powell.

Allen should be in the Hall plain and simple, he was one of the most dominating hitters of all time.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Gorditadogg

Allen should be in the Hall plain and simple, he was one of the most dominating hitters of all time.

Dick Allen was just 1 vote shy the last 2 times he was on the ballot. Now that Oliva, Minoso, Kaat, and Hodges have cleared the field, Allen is easily the top Golden Days candidate and should easily make it next time (2026.)

Yesterday I landed his 1967 road GU jersey in the Hunt live auction. I bid as if he's already a HOFer.

[JimmyC]

Originally Posted by Mark17

Dick Allen was just 1 vote shy the last 2 times he was on the ballot. Now that Oliva, Minoso, Kaat, and Hodges have cleared the field, Allen is easily the top Golden Days candidate and should easily make it next time (2026.)

Yesterday I landed his 1967 road GU jersey in the Hunt live auction. I bid as if he's already a HOFer.

Can't believe there aren't more comments on your pick up! Killer jersey - absolutely killer!! Congrats!

[Gorditadogg]

Bonds and Clemens made the choice to cheat the game and the fans. They knew what they did was wrong and they lied about it over and over, and are still lying about it to this day.

They shouldn't expect to be in the Hall of Fame, they don't deserve to be in the Hall. It's not the fault of the voters, the players' own past choices are keeping them out.

Sure, Papi was a media darling and got in, and Reinsdorf coerced the committee to get Selig in, both horrible decisions, but that doesn't mean we should let every snake into the Hall.

The steroid scandal did major damage to the game of baseball. Bonds and Clemens, along with Selig and Reinsdorf, had huge roles in that and we all should be aware of it and not try to rationalize it away.

They cheated and got away with it. Good for them in a sense. They have their records and nobody has taken them away. But that doesn't mean they should be in the Hall of Fame.




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[nwobhm]

The HOF should be liquidated and a new organization formed. One that sets baselines for automatic induction. This good ol’ boys system is stupid. Pharmaceutical use should never have been tested for in the first place.

Schilling…. If he was a Democrat he would have been a 1st ballot inductee
Bonds…. Knock 20% off his HR totals for PED use and he’s still in the top 10 all time.

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by nwobhm

The HOF should be liquidated and a new organization formed. One that sets baselines for automatic induction. This good ol’ boys system is stupid. Pharmaceutical use should never have been tested for in the first place.

Schilling…. If he was a Democrat he would have been a 1st ballot inductee
Bonds…. Knock 20% off his HR totals for PED use and he’s still in the top 10 all time.

Keep it in the same place, keep the real HOFers in, sweep out all the relatively recent BS, and start over...based solely on performance.

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by jingram058

Keep it in the same place, keep the real HOFers in, sweep out all the relatively recent BS, and start over...based solely on performance.

The BS has been going on for at least 50 years--not sure if that still counts as recent. Frankie Frisch packed the HOF with his friends in the early 1970s--Jesse Haines, Dave Bankroft, Ross Youngs, Chick Hafey and George "Highpockets" Kelly (who peaked at 1.9% in the BBWAA voting).