Signed Ty Cobb Tobacco Cards

[T206Collector]

In February 2020, a signed T206 Green Cobb sold for $144,000 in Heritage Auctions.



https://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball/s...umbnail-071515

I have been following the travels of this beautiful card for some time. The last time it was sold publicly, it sold for $3,800 in the February 22-23, 2002, Hunt Auctions here:



https://www.huntauctions.com/online/...664&lot_qual=a

In the auction description, Hunt explained that this card was “[o]riginally discovered with an estate collection of T-206 cards including (5) signed Ty Cobb cards and the original envelope of Cobb's in which they were mailed.”

I have wondered for nearly two decades where the rest of these signed T206 Cobb cards may be, but with the substantial help and assistance of Kris Sweckard, I have finally figured out where they came from and what they look like.

Kris shared with me a Hunt Auction catalog from August 11-12, 1995. Indeed, just 7 years before the Green Cobb sale, Hunt had previously auctioned the other 4 signed Ty Cobb T206s, as well as a signed T205 Cobb and a signed T202 Cobb, with the original mailing envelope dated to the 1940s, and a Hassan cigarette pack from which the T202 was supposedly pulled.





As described in the auction catalog that Kris sent me, these six cards were part of the George Sands tobacco collection, and “[e]ach was personally signed by Mr. Cobb in the 1940s and returned to Mr. Sands in Pennsylvania.”

I reached out to David Hunt about this, and asked him to confirm whether the signed T206 Green Portrait Ty Cobb card that Hunt sold in 2002 was from the George Sands collection from which Hunt sold 4 other signed T206 Cobbs on August 11-12, 1995. David replied, “It has been a long time ago, but, it is my recollection that the green signed Cobb was in fact from that same collection and given to us at a later date. I noticed it sold recently, and did quite well.”

Several of these cards have turned up in more recent auctions.

The signed T206 Cobb Bat Off was auctioned by Heritage in August 2016:



https://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball/1...umbnail-071515

The signed T205 and signed T202 showed up about the same time over 10 years ago in a Mastro Auction and an SCP Auction, respectively:





And Ron Keurajian included a photo of the T206 Red Cobb as Exhibit 1 in his 2012 book, Baseball Hall of Fame Autographs: A Reference Guide:



In his book, Keurajian wrote, “Today the handful of genuinely signed Cobb T-206 cards that exist are true gems of the hobby. I have examined four genuine specimens. Exhibit 1 is a nicely signed T-206 specimen. These are very rare and have an estimated value of $20,000 to $25,000, but in an auction could go much higher.” Keurajian also referenced the signed T202, acknowledging that, “A rare T-202 triple fold card of Cobb and George Moriarty signed by Cobb sold for $17,300 in 2009 (SCP Auctions).”

This might also explain why Keurajian was willing to share with several hobbyists that the Green Cobb was authentic:



This clip was pulled from Hauls of Shame, but the T206 Red Cobb here is not the same one from the 1995 Hunt Auction that is featured in Keurajian's book.

Please let me know if you have any information regarding where any of these Cobbs sit today, or if you have anything to add to this history. I would also appreciate a good scan of a Ty Cobb envelope with the address as follows:

Tyrus R. Cobb
Box 265
Menlo Park
California

I am interested because I am trying to narrow the dates that Cobb used the envelope found in the original Hunt Auction catalog.

Thanks for reading!

[Powell]

I own the Bat Off signed Cobb

[T206Collector]

Thanks for sharing Powell. I hope this provenance is helpful to you in supporting the value of that beautiful card.

[Powell]

Yes, thank you very much! Great work!

[Fred]

Paul,

Please DO NOT interpret this wrong.

I think signed cards are one of the coolest collectibles, especially from the T206 era players. You seem very on top of everything that is T206 signed. I don't think I can recall anybody that is as passionate or into the signed card niche as you are with these cards. That said, in the past couple of years we've seen a huge influx of tainted signed cards.

If you were to guess, what percentage of signed T206 cards do you believe/think are forged?

Has this changed the way you collect?

Do you take any special measures when reviewing these cards for purchase?

I see a signed T206, especially if it is fountain pen ink, and just about melt. I used to look at signed contracts, checks, documents as a method of collecting signatures but recently I've been shying away from them because I've seen a huge influx of certain signatures that makes me uncomfortable. I realize that in some cases there have been a few large collections of signatures that hits the market and typically I'm good with buying something from those collections, but overall, this environment has made me re-think collecting signatures.

I'm sure a majority of your signed T206s are legit and am grateful that you share your knowledge and scans of your cards along with things like the catalog excerpts.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by Fred

In the past couple of years we've seen a huge influx of tainted signed cards.

If you were to guess, what percentage of signed T206 cards do you believe/think are forged?

Has this changed the way you collect?

Do you take any special measures when reviewing these cards for purchase?

Great questions.

First, there are lots of fakes out there. Most of them are fairly obvious upon serious inspection and a modicum of research. Starting in 2015, it is also pretty obvious that some absolutely serious forgers got involved that made my area of the hobby really tough. I think these expert forgers entered the game due to the crazy prices that were turned out in a 2013 Heritage Auction. Cards that could be had for a couple of hundred dollars in 2007 or 2008 were now selling for thousands. So if you try to sell me a signed T206 card that I can’t trace to a legitimate collection before 2015, I am not likely to be all that interested.

Stated another way, I search for cards that came out of collections I trust, that I know have been around for 10+ years. I maintain a library of dozens of cards I know exist in private collections and that I am always interested in adding. If I know the owner, I follow up with the owners once in awhile to remind them of my interest.

The Uncle Jimmy auction, for instance, is solid provenance. There are lots of small time Uncle Jimmy’s, and they occasionally divest. I know some but I’m always searching for others, and then trying to preserve the provenance that auction houses stopped including because a PSA label mattered most.

Additionally, I am interested in evidence of a sale prior to 2015, like ebay or an auction house. Beyond that, obviously full JSA LOAs are dated.

SGC authenticated autographed cards with the green label, either with JSA, or without (beginning Mike Root era circa 2013), are pre-2015.

The SGC Authentic red label began no later than October 2015.

PSA original red label and blue label are pre-2015. PSA red label with the hologram on the front of the flip are circa 2015 and later.

Beckett JSA dual-cert on flip existed pre-2016.

I will still consider cards sold/authenticated in 2015 and later if there is proof of the signature's existence prior to 2015. So, an SGC Authentic red label may be fine with me, if you can show evidence of the autograph's existence prior to 2015 (e.g., 2007 Pittsburgh Find, or the Tom Marsilio collection sold by Steiner in May 2018).

So, yes, the way I collect is way different now. But, not many people are selling either. So there’s not much to buy. Nearly all of my purchases over the last 2 years have been when I find one from the Jeff Morey collection or the Pittsburgh Find. Always looking to add those.

If you’ve got a signed T206 card you are considering buying or selling, I’m happy to let you know if I know where it came from.

[JoeRand]

Thank you for sharing your knowledge. A signed Cobb tobacco card is indeed a dream come true. I appreciate the exchanges we’ve had and love my 5 signed T206 cards and my signed 1914 Cracker Jack Smoky Joe Wood card... all pieces of history. If I ever part with any you’ll be the first person I contact, your passion for this part of the hobby is awesome.

[PowderedH2O]

One thing that I notice with each of these Cobbs: In each existence, the signature is in a nice location... never over his face, never over his name on the card... I assume these to be legit, which tells you that Cobb wanted this collector to have cards that looked good, not with a signature in a crappy spot or all over the best part of the card. That kind of goes along with the "Cobb wasn't such a bad guy after all" mentality that has surfaced over the past few years.

[T206Collector]

Thanks Joe! I very much appreciate the kind words. Your collection is wonderful.

[RCMcKenzie]

Great research. Fun to read about the provenance, which seems so much more important than handwriting analysis.

[T206Collector]

Well, I found an old scan/pic of the Bat On example in color in one of my old on-line pic files. Not even sure where it came from. Anybody have any idea?

[Fred]

Paul,

Thank you for that summary. This is going to help collectors understand the importance of provenance. Having a good time line of events that have mis-shaped the hobby helps out a lot.

Information like this so very important and valuable.

Thank you again!

[Fred]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

Well, I found an old scan/pic of the Bat On example in color in one of my old on-line pic files. Not even sure where it came from. Anybody have any idea?

Looks like lot 572 from the Hunt Auction catalog (August 11-12, 1995).

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by Fred

Looks like lot 572 from the Hunt Auction catalog (August 11-12, 1995).

Sorry, yes. But that catalog wasn’t online and was in black and white. I have a pic of that Cobb in color, which I must’ve gotten online years ago, but no record of where I got it. Must have surfaced in a collection or auction over the past 15 or so years that I’ve been collecting these little gems.

[CW]

Great original post and very fun to read. Thanks!

[Jamie_h]

Thanks so much for posting this information. I have lurked on and off here for years, this thread and wanting to tell you thanks was the impetus for registering. Thank you!

[T205 GB]

Great read. Thank you.

[slantycouch]

Love this detective work, Paul. Great stuff!

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by Jamie_h

Thanks so much for posting this information. I have lurked on and off here for years, this thread and wanting to tell you thanks was the impetus for registering. Thank you!

I really appreciate the kind words!

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by PowderedH2O

One thing that I notice with each of these Cobbs: In each existence, the signature is in a nice location... never over his face, never over his name on the card... I assume these to be legit, which tells you that Cobb wanted this collector to have cards that looked good, not with a signature in a crappy spot or all over the best part of the card. That kind of goes along with the "Cobb wasn't such a bad guy after all" mentality that has surfaced over the past few years.

Yes... Cobb definitely thought it out with empathy before signing.

Willie Mays... if you are reading this, please take note!