The percentages finally caught up with me

[Archive]

Posted By: warshawlaw

I have received NINE lots of fake or altered cards this week.

One caramel card sold as ex-mt with a very clean back with a large paper pull on the back:seller says he will take it back.

Five trimmed exhibit cards: seller ignoring me so far

Two fake Old Judge cards arrived this a.m. I've emailed the seller on them.

I am beyond through with raw cards on ebay...


Here are the fake OJ's:



Looking at them at 200%, they display a dot pattern, and they have obviously wrong backs.

[Archive]

Posted By: dennis

did the scans provided look good,on the fakes? if you do not get what you should(money back) please post the dealers ebay id's. i wouldn't give up on raw ebay cards, just pay through paypal with a credit card.all credit cards guarantee you 100% satisfaction.they guard you against fraud.GOOD LUCK! i hope you get money back on all.

[Archive]

Posted By: Robert A

I think you just won one of my auctions on ebay.
It was t206 marquard, keeler, and brown.
Was that you?
robert

[Archive]

Posted By: warshawlaw

The seller who sold me the fake Old Judge cards (that were supposedly stored for many years in a tobacco tin) but that are actually laser copies glued to cardboard and aged artificially:

Ebay ID: jamesg63
Name: J. G. Henderson, Johnson City, IL

He also told me he would ship insured, charged me $10 for shipping with insurance and put the cards into an envelope with $0.83 postage and no insurance. I lodged a complaint with Paypal; it doesn't meet their criteria, so I guess I am screwed on that score (see my new post re paypal info you need to know).

The trimmed card seller:

Ebay ID: ntocountry
Name: Thomas W. Seigler, Greensboro, NC

These cards appear to be genuine but are cut down. What really ticks me off is that the sole expensive one (Bottomley) is much shorter than the others, so it should have been obvious it was trimmed when the seller compared the card with the others. Communication with this seller was good and quick until I sent in my refund demand. Since then, nothing.

The seller of the card with undisclosed back damage (anticipating your questions, no, there was no scan of the card back, but the listing specifically stated that the card had a clean back) who has offered to refund my money is:

mjmsportscards
Michael Chaffee, White Bear Lake, MN

Please note that this seller apologized for the error and has offered to refund my purchase price. Assuming he follows through when I return the card, I will post the information here.

Assuming I receive no satisfaction, my next steps as to the first two sellers are (1) negative feedbacks specifically stating the facts, (2) complaints with the postal inspectors, and (3) complaints with all other appropriate law enforcement officials.

[Archive]

Posted By: MW

Adam,

Thanks for letting us know who the alleged scammers are -- i.e., the first two listed. I hope the Exhibit situation gets resolved. As for the guy selling the fake Old Judges, all I can say is LOSER.

[Archive]

Posted By: warshawlaw

Just Kidding, MW. I know what you meant.

I FEEL like a loser anyway...

[Archive]

Posted By: Josh K.

Adam,

Let me know if I can be of assistance with respect to the Greensboro NC seller. Im located in Raleigh NC (about 1 hour from G-Boro). If you decide you want to go after him in a civil rather than criminal proceding, I'd be glad to help out.

[Archive]

Posted By: warshawlaw

I may take you up on that offer.

[Archive]

Posted By: warshawlaw

Seller on the 5 trimmed cards has offered to take them back. Let's see what happens. Still no word from the OJ scammer.

[Archive]

Posted By: warshawlaw

I guess he is the typical scumbag we are all leery of here:

Ok hold a minute here! Those cards are not fakes to the best of my knowledge. I explained that these cards were FOUND in the bottom of a tobacco tin. I assume for approximatly 60 years!. Maybe you should have read the description prior to buying. I sold these cards for a friend that asked me to do him a favor. I suggest you have the cards checked by an Expert before you start accusing me of being a fraud! I listed those cards with just as much knowledge about them as YOU!

And here is my response:

I am an expert, sir. The cards are obvious fakes and your story, to put it bluntly, is a lie. I do not screw around with charlatans like you. I am contacting the authorities in your area as well as the internet fraud squads of the FBI and the US Postal Inspector. It may interest you to know as well that I am an attorney and that I will be in your area next year, so expect to be hauled into small claims court to answer for your fraud, unless you immediately refund my money. I suggest you hire a lawyer; you are going to need one.


Negative feedback has been left; I will contact the authorities Monday.

[Archive]

Posted By: dennis

he would sell these to somebody who couldn't tell a real oj??? the friend story is just that. in the words of victor conte. ""It's almost like what I'm here to tell you right now is that not only is there no Santa Claus, but there's no Easter Bunny or Tooth Fairy either"

[Archive]

Posted By: steve k

<<< The seller who sold me the fake Old Judge cards (that were supposedly stored for many years in a tobacco tin) but that are actually laser copies glued to cardboard and aged artificially: >>>


<<< Ok hold a minute here! Those cards are not fakes to the best of my knowledge. I explained that these cards were FOUND in the bottom of a tobacco tin. I assume for approximatly 60 years!. Maybe you should have read the description prior to buying. I sold these cards for a friend that asked me to do him a favor. I suggest you have the cards checked by an Expert before you start accusing me of being a fraud! I listed those cards with just as much knowledge about them as YOU! >>>

Since I am involved in the business of copying and printing machines and supplies, and know the history of such, I can unequivocally state that there were not any laser printers back in 1944. (as if most, if not all of us didn't already know this)

[Archive]

Posted By: Lee Behrens

No Laser printer? Weren't you aware that they found a laser printer at Roswell? I also heard they were waiting ship Ted Williams head to their planet to start basebal on their planet.

[Archive]

Posted By: hankron

The history of computer printing technology is dry, but I will testify that even a M.I.T. computer science professor and the President of Xerox weren't reprinting Old Judges on livingroom computer printers in 1944.

[Archive]

Posted By: hankron

Of legal note, a thing to do if you get a home computer printed fake is to keep any other print out that comes with it. Or get a second print out later, perhaps by buying something else.

If the same printer/type of printer/ink is used to create both the fakes and an invoice, it is not difficult to identify this by closely examining the graphics.

In a court case or other argument, many fakers will come up with a variety of stories. "He's got the wrong person, I never sold these," "I really did find them in a tin," "Someone else gave them to me, and I never knew what they were," "The accuser's a liar. I don't know what he's talking about" The evidence that the fakes were made from the seller's printer will not only crystal clear up more than a few loose ends in the judge's eyes, but can be important in turning a civil issue into a criminal issue, and creating an earlier and better out of court settlement.

[Archive]

Posted By: warshawlaw

he is sticking by his claims that the cards were found in an old tobacco tin.

I am going to make this scumbag my personal project.

[Archive]

Posted By: dan mckee

I can recommend a great lawyer if you need one, though he resides and prcatices in California.

[Archive]

Posted By: J Levine

Adam,

Make his produce the tin it came in. Then ask him how he acquired it and for contact information for his friend. He will probably do neither. As a lawyer, you know to document everything. Call local post office and submit a fraud claim. This can be done online as well if I recall. Then call local police and file a report. Send copies registered mail to scumbag and see if he gets the idea.

This has worked for me in the past.

-Joshua

[Archive]

Posted By: warshawlaw

I will probably sue him here in CA; there is ample precedent for jurisdiction and if he doesn't appear, I will default him and turn it over to a collections agency in IL.

[Archive]

Posted By: Mark

Has anyone actually had success by filing with USPS fraud or the local authorities? I have tried it once over a $1200 fake card but heard nothing back from either. I would call to ask about progress on the police report I filed and my call would not be returned. I hope my situation is the exception.

[Archive]

Posted By: Jamie

I purchased a $375 set on Ebay. The seller, who had good, albeit little feedback, was shorly NARU'd a few weeks later and I never got anything from him. I proceeded to file charges with the US Postal Service and the FBI Internet Fraud Division. I also contacted all of his other buyers and provided the information they needed to do the same- the key to getting action from these agencies is volume- they want to see that this person has defrauded more than one person.

To make a long story short, my seller refunded my money and was practically begging me to drop the charges- the FBI had contacted his local authorities. The whole process took a few months before anything had happened but it was well worth it.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: The percentages finally caught up with me December 15 2004, 1:12 AM


Has anyone actually had success by filing with USPS fraud or the local authorities? I have tried it once over a $1200 fake card but heard nothing back from either. I would call to ask about progress on the police report I filed and my call would not be returned. I hope my situation is the exception.

[Archive]

Posted By: J Levine

I have had success with both the USPS and the local police. Sometimes it takes a little more effort but they are pretty good at it once they know you are not going to go away.

-Joshua

[Archive]

Posted By: warshawlaw

ntocountry (Thomas Siegler) refunded my money with postage.

One down, two to go...

[Archive]

Posted By: warshawlaw

the damaged back card was delivered to the seller on 12/20, signed for by his wife. I have the USPS return receipt.

BTW, using certified mail with return receipt is a great way to return cards. You get a receipt signed by the seller on delivery of the return. Costs a bit more ($1.75 extra for the receipt above the certified mail costs) but the proof of delivery is incontrovertible.

[Archive]

Posted By: warshawlaw

The guy who sold me the damaged caramel card. I returned the card per his instructions (via certified mail w/return receipt of course so I'd have a delivery record) and received an email saying he'd received the card and was sending a refund check. Since then (about 2 weeks ago) no check and an ominous silence in response to my emails.

[Archive]

Posted By: Rich Klein

Adam:

Your book arrived today. Looks great

Thanks
Rich

[Archive]

Posted By: warshawlaw

we now return to our regularly scheduled programming:

The seller broke silence today and admitted he'd not sent the check and would be sending it in the a.m. We'll see if it really makes it into the mail...this time.

[Archive]

Posted By: warshawlaw

I finally got a partial refund from the seller of the misrepresented e card. He deducted the shipping and did not repay the cost to ship the card back to him. So, instead of being out $31.80, I am only out $7.68. Needless to say, I will not being doing business with Mr. Chaffee again...