Ebay tax reporting drops from $20,000 to $600

[bobbyw8469]

Forgive me if this has already been mentioned. With the tax threshold being dropped on Ebay from $20k to a measley $600, will that affect people selling on EBay??? I was just curious.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Forgive me if this has already been mentioned. With the tax threshold being dropped on Ebay from $20k to a measley $600, will that affect people selling on EBay??? I was just curious.

It has been discussed many many times recently. I think it already has made a difference it what I buy/watch on eBay. Nobody wants the hassle for selling a few items they no longer use. In our hobby I know a few collectors that sell old stuff they no longer want to buy new items and now a couple have just said F'it and are done collecting.

I mainly wonder what the unlicensed non tax paying "Dealers" are going to do. One I know of still has a ton of stuff listed on eBay.

Bobby what are you personally going to do?

I rarely sell on eBay but have a bunch of oddball stuff I need to sell that will be over $600. I will probably sell some cards also. I need to talk to my current tax adviser but my guess is I will just have to pay income tax on the total because most of it was bought several years to decades ago and I have no proof of purchase price.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by bnorth

It has been discussed many many times recently. I think it already has made a difference it what I buy/watch on eBay. Nobody wants the hassle for selling a few items they no longer use. In our hobby I know a few collectors that sell old stuff they no longer want to buy new items and now a couple have just said F'it and are done collecting.

I mainly wonder what the unlicensed non tax paying "Dealers" are going to do. One I know of still has a ton of stuff listed on eBay.

A lot of private IP cash sales, less ebay and auction house sales.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

A lot of private IP cash sales, less ebay and auction house sales.

Oh boy - and a lot more fraud is on the way... not that fleabay provided a lot of protection from fraud (at either end - buying or selling), but there was something there.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Fred

Oh boy - and a lot more fraud is on the way... not that fleabay provided a lot of protection from fraud (at either end - buying or selling), but there was something there.

Fraud is acceptable in this industy.

[Orioles1954]

I sell about 30-40K per year on ebay (basically a part-time job) and have always reported them on my taxes so it's really no big deal to me.

[conor912]

The party's over. My guess is on-line sales plummet. A few BINs I was watching jumped 20% on New Years day. I asked why, and they all said "the IRS". No Thanks. With all the TPG and IRS B.S. going on, it looks like some will be going back to the archaic days of buying raw cards with check or MO. How ironic.

[G1911]

Technically, it doesn't change our taxes. It IS a titanic shifting of the burden of proof, to an effective guilty until proven innocent with how these 1099's work. Getting reimbursed for things will become a pain in the ass, especially if the bank account monitoring eventually gets through. I will have to record and itemize every penny from every dinner with my friends, etc when that happens.

It's not like I have receipts for my purchase price of every card I've bought in my life. It's going to be a pain when, while being 100% honest on my taxes, I won't be able to prove it because I can't prove my profit on a card I bought in 1999 with cash at a show, if I remember the purchase price.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by G1911

Technically, it doesn't change our taxes. It IS a titanic shifting of the burden of proof, to an effective guilty until proven innocent with how these 1099's work. Getting reimbursed for things will become a pain in the ass, especially if the bank account monitoring eventually gets through. I will have to record and itemize every penny from every dinner with my friends, etc when that happens.

It's not like I have receipts for my purchase price of every card I've bought in my life. It's going to be a pain when, while being 100% honest on my taxes, I won't be able to prove it because I can't prove my profit on a card I bought in 1999 with cash at a show, if I remember the purchase price.

It is not really a matter of guilt, just proper reporting for tax purposes. And no, things like garage sales are NOT going to suddenly be stalked by IRS and state tax agents, nor are they going to accept and act on calls from people reporting those having garage sales. Garage sales are what are considered as "casual sales" and are generally not subject to income or sales tax laws. By their nature, they are considered to not be indicative of an ongoing business operation, and therefore don't need to be reported or monitored. In the past, the thresholds for things like 1099-K reporting were considered the point when one went from not operating a business to now operating a business, but there never had been a truly defined point that marked when someone's true intent was to operate as a business, and that has not changed..

Ebay is only the platform for these sales, and the new 1099-K reporting threshold isn't being imposed on Ebay, just those third-party payment services like Paypal, Venmo, or Zelle. Only Ebay sales using payment services like these get included in 1099-K reporting, not sales using checks, MOs, or credit cards. It is all about the government having access to your records if they want/need to go checking you out. It wasn't suddenly saying anyone doing $600 or more in casual sales is now considered to be in a viable, ongoing business.

And the $600 threshold goes hand in hand with the reporting threshold for non-employee, independent contractor, compensation, which has been at $600 for decades. That used to be reported on 1099-MISC forms until recently when they broke out such reporting a few years ago on the new 1099-NEC forms.

Anyway, the new 1099-K reporting is tied into the same reason that 1099-NEC forms do not have to be issued to people/businesses that operate as corporations. If you hire Joe Blow to plow your driveway, and cut him a check in payment, as an individual he can go to his bank and simply endorse and cash the check and walk out with his money. That cashed check never shows up in Joe Blow's bank account records or activities, or on his bank statement. However, if he incorporated his snow plowing business, you'd maybe make the check out to Joe Blow, Inc. In that case, if he takes it to his bank and endorses the check, under banking laws and regulations they can't just give him the money. He actually has to deposit that check into the corporation's bank account first, and can then write a check to himself personally, or otherwise transfer the money to himself. Regardless of what he does, that deposit will now show up in his corporate bank account records and on the corporate bank account statement. The IRS can then come in whenever they want and demand to see the corporate bank account records, and simply see the deposit and question if it was reportable income for tax purposes. And that is why a 1099-MISC or -NEC isn't required to be sent to a corporation, regardless of how much more over $600 someone may have paid a corporation for their services in any given year.

Well, when it comes to Paypal (and I assume similarly for other payment services like Zelle or Venmo), you generally have your account linked to an actual bank account you can draw money out of to then make payments through Paypal. But if someone sends you money through Paypal, it doesn't necessarily get deposited into your bank account. It sits in your Paypal account till you can have it transferred into your bank account, or use it to make Paypal payments to others. And as long as you never formally deposit anything back into your bank account, it also never shows up up on/in your bank account's records or statements, which the IRS can demand to see. It is similar to an individual non-employee getting paid by a check, but just cashing it at their bank instead of depositing it into their bank account, and thereby not create a traceable record of it in their name that the IRS can easily find. So to get after this potentially hidden income/business activity, they've taken to imposing this same $600 reporting threshold on third-party payment activity, like through Paypal.

Unfortunately in doing so, this reporting doesn't indicate whether you are operating an actual business, or just clearing out stuff from a garage or attic. I imagine the IRS' stance for anyone receiving these 1099-K forms after the lowering of the reporting threshold in 2022 will be that recipients are formally in an ongoing business, unless they report and show otherwise on their tax returns. And this distinction can be very important to someone who is not a card dealer, but a collector or investor instead, who maybe only sells thing occasionally to fund other purchases, or maybe to cash in when when a particular card/item suddenly jumps in value out in the marketplace. The reporting differences can be great, and I've already gone over them in more detail in other threads/posts of mine you can go look up. Suffice it to say here that I believe the biggest differences between reporting as a dealer versus reporting as a collector or investor, are whether your net profits from card sales are treated as ordinary or capital gain income, and whether or not those net profits may also be subject to self-employment tax.

Bottom line is, if you get one of these 1099-K forms, do not just ignore it. And if you try doing your taxes yourself after getting one of these 1099-K forms for the first time, and really don't know what you're doing and/or what I'm talking about, do yourself a big favor and at least seek out the advice and help from a qualified tax professional. Even if it ends up costing you some fees, chances are it will save you much more in time, expense, and aggravation over the long run.

[CTDean]

All eBay sales will show up on your 1099K's. I'm in Maryland and it is one of the states that use the $600 figure this year. I just printed my Paypal 1099K for January thru June 2021. In June I went to eBay managed payments and will be getting an eBay 1099K for June thru December 2021 sales. The 1099K's will include all eBay sales for the year no matter the payment method used by the buyer through paypal or eBay's managed payments. Here the $600 in a year is the only factor, the number of sales has no meaning.

[Directly]

The report in my Tax link was actually for 2020 generated yesterday Jan 25, 2022--I assume a updated 1099K report will be coming soon for the year 2021-

[CTDean]

Bob,
The paypal 1099K includes all money coming into your account for sales. You can buy with your funds, let it set, or transfer to your bank if you want. Your 1099K will include every dollar coming into your account no matter how it goes out.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by CTDean

All eBay sales will show up on your 1099K's. I'm in Maryland and it is one of the states that use the $600 figure this year. I just printed my Paypal 1099K for January thru June 2021. In June I went to eBay managed payments and will be getting an eBay 1099K for June thru December 2021 sales. The 1099K's will include all eBay sales for the year no matter the payment method used by the buyer through paypal or eBay's managed payments. Here the $600 in a year is the only factor, the number of sales has no meaning.

Sorry for any misunderstanding, I believe Ebay's managed payment plan/system is considered somewhat on par with other payment platforms like Paypall, Zelle, etc. And therefore they'll report on all sales through that platform. I do not sell on Ebay and only know they are in the middle of eventually getting all Ebay sellers to adopt and be on their managed payment program. My understanding was that not all Ebay sellers had been forced to switch yet, and for those that hadn't, Paypal was still the primary payment venue/option being used, and that only payments through Paypal would be included in their 1099-K reporting (not including F&F payments).

This just highlights how confusing and complicated, as well as how inaccurate this reporting may be. As you mentioned, your 1099-K only included all Ebay sales starting in June through the year end, after you had switched to Ebay's managed payment system. Before that switch though, I'm assuming that any payments you had received that did not come through Paypal, are not showing up on a 1099-K.

And this also points out how tax laws and reporting can vary greatly by state.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by BobC

It is not really a matter of guilt, just proper reporting for tax purposes. And no, things like garage sales are NOT going to suddenly be stalked by IRS and state tax agents, nor are they going to accept and act on calls from people reporting those having garage sales. Garage sales are what are considered as "casual sales" and are generally not subject to income or sales tax laws. By their nature, they are considered to not be indicative of an ongoing business operation, and therefore don't need to be reported or monitored. In the past, the thresholds for things like 1099-K reporting were considered the point when one went from not operating a business to now operating a business, but there never had been a truly defined point that marked when someone's true intent was to operate as a business, and that has not changed..

Ebay is only the platform for these sales, and the new 1099-K reporting threshold isn't being imposed on Ebay, just those third-party payment services like Paypal, Venmo, or Zelle. Only Ebay sales using payment services like these get included in 1099-K reporting, not sales using checks, MOs, or credit cards. It is all about the government having access to your records if they want/need to go checking you out. It wasn't suddenly saying anyone doing $600 or more in casual sales is now considered to be in a viable, ongoing business.

And the $600 threshold goes hand in hand with the reporting threshold for non-employee, independent contractor, compensation, which has been at $600 for decades. That used to be reported on 1099-MISC forms until recently when they broke out such reporting a few years ago on the new 1099-NEC forms.

Anyway, the new 1099-K reporting is tied into the same reason that 1099-NEC forms do not have to be issued to people/businesses that operate as corporations. If you hire Joe Blow to plow your driveway, and cut him a check in payment, as an individual he can go to his bank and simply endorse and cash the check and walk out with his money. That cashed check never shows up in Joe Blow's bank account records or activities, or on his bank statement. However, if he incorporated his snow plowing business, you'd maybe make the check out to Joe Blow, Inc. In that case, if he takes it to his bank and endorses the check, under banking laws and regulations they can't just give him the money. He actually has to deposit that check into the corporation's bank account first, and can then write a check to himself personally, or otherwise transfer the money to himself. Regardless of what he does, that deposit will now show up in his corporate bank account records and on the corporate bank account statement. The IRS can then come in whenever they want and demand to see the corporate bank account records, and simply see the deposit and question if it was reportable income for tax purposes. And that is why a 1099-MISC or -NEC isn't required to be sent to a corporation, regardless of how much more over $600 someone may have paid a corporation for their services in any given year.

Well, when it comes to Paypal (and I assume similarly for other payment services like Zelle or Venmo), you generally have your account linked to an actual bank account you can draw money out of to then make payments through Paypal. But if someone sends you money through Paypal, it doesn't necessarily get deposited into your bank account. It sits in your Paypal account till you can have it transferred into your bank account, or use it to make Paypal payments to others. And as long as you never formally deposit anything back into your bank account, it also never shows up up on/in your bank account's records or statements, which the IRS can demand to see. It is similar to an individual non-employee getting paid by a check, but just cashing it at their bank instead of depositing it into their bank account, and thereby not create a traceable record of it in their name that the IRS can easily find. So to get after this potentially hidden income/business activity, they've taken to imposing this same $600 reporting threshold on third-party payment activity, like through Paypal.

Unfortunately in doing so, this reporting doesn't indicate whether you are operating an actual business, or just clearing out stuff from a garage or attic. I imagine the IRS' stance for anyone receiving these 1099-K forms after the lowering of the reporting threshold in 2022 will be that recipients are formally in an ongoing business, unless they report and show otherwise on their tax returns. And this distinction can be very important to someone who is not a card dealer, but a collector or investor instead, who maybe only sells thing occasionally to fund other purchases, or maybe to cash in when when a particular card/item suddenly jumps in value out in the marketplace. The reporting differences can be great, and I've already gone over them in more detail in other threads/posts of mine you can go look up. Suffice it to say here that I believe the biggest differences between reporting as a dealer versus reporting as a collector or investor, are whether your net profits from card sales are treated as ordinary or capital gain income, and whether or not those net profits may also be subject to self-employment tax.

Bottom line is, if you get one of these 1099-K forms, do not just ignore it. And if you try doing your taxes yourself after getting one of these 1099-K forms for the first time, and really don't know what you're doing and/or what I'm talking about, do yourself a big favor and at least seek out the advice and help from a qualified tax professional. Even if it ends up costing you some fees, chances are it will save you much more in time, expense, and aggravation over the long run.

I think you may have replied to the wrong person, as I didn't talk about garage sales at all, or most of what you are talking about. I know how PayPal works...

Garage sales and face to face absolutely are affected though - I don't have proof of what I paid (and thus, to calculate my profit form an eBay sale) from a face to face transaction 20 years ago, or often even memory of what it was myself. As I am taxed on PROFIT, it's going to be a total pain in the ass at best to survive auditing, as I can't prove what I paid at a Card Show 15 years ago to then calculate from an eBay sale next month.

As to your last paragraph, If I have to hire a professional to make sure I don't get !@#$% by the state over a few eBay sales that I wasn't cheating about on my taxes in the first place, well.... That's exactly why this is a problem and ridiculous. It is a shift of the burden of the proof, and creates a ton of headaches. After losing 45%+ of my sale price when I can't show what I originally paid, and then hiring a professional, there's even less reason to sell. Its not much more profitable than burning my duplicates in the fireplace.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by G1911

I think you may have replied to the wrong person, as I didn't talk about garage sales at all, or most of what you are talking about. I know how PayPal works...

Garage sales and face to face absolutely are affected though - I don't have proof of what I paid (and thus, to calculate my profit form an eBay sale) from a face to face transaction 20 years ago, or often even memory of what it was myself. As I am taxed on PROFIT, it's going to be a total pain in the ass at best to survive auditing, as I can't prove what I paid at a Card Show 15 years ago to then calculate from an eBay sale next month.

As to your last paragraph, If I have to hire a professional to make sure I don't get !@#$% by the state over a few eBay sales that I wasn't cheating about on my taxes in the first place, well.... That's exactly why this is a problem and ridiculous. It is a shift of the burden of the proof, and creates a ton of headaches. After losing 45%+ of my sale price when I can't show what I originally paid, and then hiring a professional, there's even less reason to sell. Its not much more profitable than burning my duplicates in the fireplace.

My apologies as I wasn't so much responding just to you, but also trying to explain the what's and why's of a lot of these crazy new laws and changes to everyone that may not know much about all this, or have not heard about it already.

And as to saying everyone has to hire a tax professional to do their taxes now, I'm really not suggesting that is what everyone necessarily do. I'm merely saying that depending on one's knowledge and experience, and their own unique and personal tax situation, and this huge change in tax reporting becoming effective now, this is actually a critical point in many people's hobby/collecting activities to finally think about and decide how they want to be treated going forward. Since a lot of people are finally going to be forced to start reporting parts of their "hobby" activities on their tax returns, doesn't it make sense for them to think about if they want to be considered as a dealer, or maybe as an investor, or just a plain hobby collector, or even possibly a mix of all three? And if they're not sure exactly what that all means, or what they want to do, or how they may want to be considered and treated going forward, doesn't it make sense to at least talk to someone that might be able to help them to understand the differences and the pros and cons of choosing one way of being treated over another? And then maybe help to explain/show to them how their choice(s) actually gets put into their tax return. You need or want to hear that from someone with some actual tax experience, not some of the yahoos who occasionally will post on here that will tell you to just do what they say and you'll be fine, and act like they know all the answers because they heard it from so-and-so's cousin, or saw something online last night. So even if you don't want to have to hire a tax preparer, at least maybe ask around to hopefully find someone you can talk to about how to proceed going forward tax-wise. Maybe think of it like this. Someone starting out in a business usually needs to sit down and decide what kind of business do they want to start. Do they go forward as a sole proprietor, or maybe they file to become an LLC. And then again, maybe they decide it is better to incorporate, but then should they elect to file their taxes as an S-Corp, or maybe leave the taxation as a C-Corp. And then, how does that fit in with their regular job(s), other businesses, and investments, and then all the same questions for their spouse if married, and on and on. Beginning to get my drift?

Anyway, sorry again. My response was not solely directed at just your post.

[puckpaul]

Originally Posted by G1911

I think you may have replied to the wrong person, as I didn't talk about garage sales at all, or most of what you are talking about. I know how PayPal works...

Garage sales and face to face absolutely are affected though - I don't have proof of what I paid (and thus, to calculate my profit form an eBay sale) from a face to face transaction 20 years ago, or often even memory of what it was myself. As I am taxed on PROFIT, it's going to be a total pain in the ass at best to survive auditing, as I can't prove what I paid at a Card Show 15 years ago to then calculate from an eBay sale next month.

As to your last paragraph, If I have to hire a professional to make sure I don't get !@#$% by the state over a few eBay sales that I wasn't cheating about on my taxes in the first place, well.... That's exactly why this is a problem and ridiculous. It is a shift of the burden of the proof, and creates a ton of headaches. After losing 45%+ of my sale price when I can't show what I originally paid, and then hiring a professional, there's even less reason to sell. Its not much more profitable than burning my duplicates in the fireplace.

+1, this is a nuisance and an unnecessary requirement for small $ transactions for most of us. Hopefully we can vote some people in that can change this.

[Dandor]

Originally Posted by BobC

Ebay is only the platform for these sales, and the new 1099-K reporting threshold isn't being imposed on Ebay, just those third-party payment services like Paypal, Venmo, or Zelle. Only Ebay sales using payment services like these get included in 1099-K reporting, not sales using checks, MOs, or credit cards. It is all about the government having access to your records if they want/need to go checking you out. It wasn't suddenly saying anyone doing $600 or more in casual sales is now considered to be in a viable, ongoing business.

I agree with everything what you said, besides this paragraph. Some great information BTW with so much misinformation out there.

eBay has a mandatory managed payments program now. Nothing is fed through third-party payment services anymore. So, eBay will be sending out 1099-K forms through these new regulations.

[parkplace33]

Lots of talk about this subject.

Might I suggest that if you are worried about paying taxes on selling cards, the easiest thing is to not sell cards?

[christopher.herman]

I am very grateful for all this tax information from our knowledgeable and experienced board members.

My personal takeaway is that I will not be selling anything online with a paper trail for the calendar year 2022. I will circle back to this thread in early 2023 when y'all got this figured out. I need less headaches and fighting with the IRS over the value of old and brittle card stock is not the hill I want to die on. My collection is a marathon....

My card buying will definitely be affected (and already has) if I'm not able to unload dupes, cards no longer of interest or cards that have appreciated significantly that I am willing to let go.

In the meantime (shameless plug coming), I am currently buying old and brittle W514 and W515-2 strip cards. Links to my needs lists in my signature.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Dandor

I agree with everything what you said, besides this paragraph. Some great information BTW with so much misinformation out there.

eBay has a mandatory managed payments program now. Nothing is fed through third-party payment services anymore. So, eBay will be sending out 1099-K forms through these new regulations.

Yes, I know. I already addressed and went into more detail about this back in Post #22 in this thread. I was originally speaking in more general terms about third-party payment platforms, and expanded what I had been saying to include Ebay's managed payment system as well in that later Post#22. Just goes to show how confusing and complicated this can all be.

[JustinD]

I was thinking the same that eBay will lose the most and the small sellers will get pushed out by overbearing tax laws. Pretty soon they will have a tax hotline for reporting your neighbors yard sale so the IRS can audit someone cleaning their basement.

I expect prices to go up and sales to go down which will boost IP and sales on Facebook or chat forums like the BST. Who knows? We may see a renaissance of collector shows.

PWCC has been so successful as they do not report via 1099 on any sales like other houses, this could be a blazing for them.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by JustinD

I was thinking the same that eBay will lose the most and the small sellers will get pushed out by overbearing tax laws. Pretty soon they will have a tax hotline for reporting your neighbors yard sale so the IRS can audit someone cleaning their basement.

I expect prices to go up and sales to go down which will boost IP and sales on Facebook or chat forums like the BST. Who knows? We may see a renaissance of collector shows.

PWCC has been so successful as they do not report via 1099 on any sales like other houses, this could be a blazing for them.

First off, the tax laws themselves aren't changing. Most people were supposed to be reporting such activity on their returns all along.

See my previous post in regards to your comment about reporting people's garage sales.

Regarding price changes, I think it might be people looking more for different options and venues to sell on/through to get around these lowering reporting thresholds, than for people to raise prices to help cover taxes maybe now owed. No one's going to want to pay higher prices, and they'll go looking for those lower price options, like at card shows that could be seeing a huge resurgence as we get past these covid restrictions more and more. But remember, they were also trying to impose a new $600 reporting threshold on personal bank account activity as well, but that got pushed back up to I believe $10,000. But you watch, if everyone starts trying to do more cash deals to not have to report that activity for tax purposes, just see how fast they may look to revisit that $600 reporting threshold for personal bank accounts. And I won't even start about cops and these "asset forfeiture" laws.

And lastly, I don't get your comment regarding PWCC having an advantage over other houses (I'm assuming you meant other auction houses) by not having to issue 1099s to their consignors on sales. Technically, no one issues 1099s for sales of tangible property, they are issued for services. And PWCC doesn't buy anything from, or get any service provided by, their consignors to be sending them a 1099 for. If anyone would be required to be sending 1099s to PWCC's, or any auction house's, consignors for sales of tangible personal property, it would be the people that won the auctions. In truth and fact, if anyone should possibly be receiving a 1099, it would be PWCC (and all other AHs) from their consignors for the fees/commissions they charge for providing their auction/consignment services. Your thinking on this point is entirely bass ackwards.

[T205 GB]

Originally Posted by conor912

The party's over. My guess is on-line sales plummet. A few BINs I was watching jumped 20% on New Years day. I asked why, and they all said "the IRS". No Thanks. With all the TPG and IRS B.S. going on, it looks like some will be going back to the archaic days of buying raw cards with check or MO. How ironic.

Sad to say but there are a lot of stores and restaurant's here in SE MN that refuse checks and cash. Yes I said cash. Card transactions only. All things will be property of the government eventually. We will just get to hold on to them for a bit.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by T205 GB

Sad to say but there are a lot of stores and restaurant's here in SE MN that refuse checks and cash. Yes I said cash. Card transactions only. All things will be property of the government eventually. We will just get to hold on to them for a bit.

That is weird with cash because it saves them the service charge. Does stop cash grab robberies and make employees way safer. I can't think of anyplace besides paying utility bills that takes checks anymore. I know some places used to run check instantly like a credit card but not sure of any that still do that.

Almost forgot a lot of remote camping places take checks because there is nobody working there. You put your check into an envelope and put it into a steel box.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by bnorth

That is weird with cash because it saves them the service charge.

Hi Ben! You haven't heard about the "national coin shortage" ? Old people arent leaving the house an using their change purse, and people recieved so much stimulus they have no need to hit the coin star machine in exchange for an Amazon gift card.

[Lucas00]

I was going back through a few sellers I enjoy who sell more unique ephemera/photography type items looking to get a few nice things. And their entire stores were completely removed. Not a single listing. Not to mention a few of my watches are now completely gone (they are not under completed listings).
How do people expect true hobby sellers, and by hobby I'm talking a few sales a month maximum type hobbyist. To be able to sell for any kind of profit?

I personally fall in this category and have removed my 60 or so listings. Between the 28% tax on collectables and ebay's 12% I would be losing money on 90% of my listings and doing 10x more work at the same time.
And I keep hearing "just set up as a business and do this and that" no. I'm doing it as a hobby not as a business.

How, in any world are the real collectors punished the most? It is very sad.

eBay will see record losses, if not this year then next. And they know it, they sent letters to Congress asking for the change to be reversed or a much higher threshold to be imposed.

What are hobbyist and small sellers doing with these small profits you might ask that warrants this change? Stimulating the economy with purchases at stores and supporting restaurants and tons of other taxed businesses? Impossible. They are funding terrorists and buying drugs with that money!

So now they lose that stimulation and people stop selling so they lose the taxes on buyers too. Very smart and well thought out government decision.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Lucas00

I was going back through a few sellers I enjoy who sell more unique ephemera/photography type items looking to get a few nice things. And their entire stores were completely removed. Not a single listing. Not to mention a few of my watches are now completely gone (they are not under completed listings).
How do people expect true hobby sellers, and by hobby I'm talking a few sales a month maximum type hobbyist. To be able to sell for any kind of profit?

I personally fall in this category and have removed my 60 or so listings. Between the 28% tax on collectables and ebay's 12% I would be losing money on 90% of my listings and doing 10x more work at the same time.
And I keep hearing "just set up as a business and do this and that" no. I'm doing it as a hobby not as a business.

How, in any world are the real collectors punished the most? It is very sad.

eBay will see record losses, if not this year then next. And they know it, they sent letters to Congress asking for the change to be reversed or a much higher threshold to be imposed.

What are hobbyist and small sellers doing with these small profits you might ask that warrants this change? Stimulating the economy with purchases at stores and supporting restaurants and tons of other taxed businesses? Impossible. They are funding terrorists and buying drugs with that money!

So now they lose that stimulation and people stop selling so they lose the taxes on buyers too. Very smart and well thought out government decision.

No comment regarding the political aspects, I'll leave that to others.

As for the tax side of things, how can taxes suddenly be causing you to lose money on 90% of your sales? You do know you only pay taxes on NET capital gains from collectibles sales, after deducting the cost of the items sold, plus the direct transaction costs to acquire and sell you items (which includes Ebay's fees)? And the 28% tax is only a MAXIMUM tax rate on your net long term gains from collectible's sales. Depending on what other income is being reported on your return, the tax rate on your long term collectible gains can be much lower than that. The only way you'd be losing money on collectible's sales if you just sell something for less than what you paid for it, plus the Ebay fees.

[Lucas00]

Originally Posted by BobC

No comment regarding the political aspects, I'll leave that to others.

As for the tax side of things, how can taxes suddenly be causing you to lose money on 90% of your sales? You do know you only pay taxes on NET capital gains from collectibles sales, after deducting the cost of the items sold, plus the direct transaction costs to acquire and sell you items (which includes Ebay's fees)? And the 28% tax is only a MAXIMUM tax rate on your net long term gains from collectible's sales. Depending on what other income is being reported on your return, the tax rate on your long term collectible gains can be much lower than that. The only way you'd be losing money on collectible's sales if you just sell something for less than what you paid for it, plus the Ebay fees.

I'm definitely new to this, I don't play with stocks or really any investments. Mainly Just cash and cards as much as possible (I know cards are an investment but I guess I never looked at them that way, especially when selling on eBay to purchase another card or whatnot). I honestly don't know the ins and outs at all. Just from simple research headlines that I guess didn't explain it very well to me. I was under the impression the deductions were only possible if you were set-up as a business. I'm pretty sure the eBay fee part at least? Maybe not, I have no idea.
I have only based my possible losses on the information I had which added up to the 40% of the total sale which is clearly wrong. I almost always sell on smaller margins so this implied say I got a card for $100, sold it for $150 I would be taxed 40% of $150 being $60. I wasn't aware it was only on the net gain. I Actually feel foolish now knowing that. I also couldn't find anything not flashing a 28% tax rate until I dug far deeper. Seems clickbait and scare tactics definitely worked on me this time.

Thanks for the rundown.

I want to make it clear though, I still think it is unnecessary and terribly egregious for a small time seller. And should be reversed asap.

[BobC]

Sorry, double post!

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Lucas00

I'm definitely new to this, I don't play with stocks or really any investments. Mainly Just cash and cards as much as possible (I know cards are an investment but I guess I never looked at them that way, especially when selling on eBay to purchase another card or whatnot). I honestly don't know the ins and outs at all. Just from simple research headlines that I guess didn't explain it very well to me. I was under the impression the deductions were only possible if you were set-up as a business. I'm pretty sure the eBay fee part at least? Maybe not, I have no idea.
I have only based my possible losses on the information I had which added up to the 40% of the total sale which is clearly wrong. I almost always sell on smaller margins so this implied say I got a card for $100, sold it for $150 I would be taxed 40% of $150 being $60. I wasn't aware it was only on the net gain. I Actually feel foolish now knowing that. I also couldn't find anything not flashing a 28% tax rate until I dug far deeper. Seems clickbait and scare tactics definitely worked on me this time.

Thanks for the rundown.

I want to make it clear though, I still think it is unnecessary and terribly egregious for a small time seller. And should be reversed asap.

Well, I'm the polar opposite of you, and definitely not new to taxes. LOL

I was afraid from what you were typing that you might not be familiar with how this works tax-wise in regards to cards and our hobby, so jumped in to hopefully provide some guidance. I've typed way too many answers for things like this already so, rather than repeating myself and just typing more, go back and read anything else I already posted in this thread. And then do a search for posts I've made and you can go read through and catch up on all the tax related posts I've made. You will find a wealth of knowledge in them. Just remember though, tax laws can (and sometimes do) dramatically change overnight, so something I wrote/said a while back may not be 100% valid anymore. And when in doubt, reach out and try to check with a qualified tax professional, especially one familiar with the state you're in.

As for this whole thing being so egregious for the small-time sellers, I don't necessarily disagree. The government is out for the bigger fish, but unfortunately these new reporting laws and thresholds are seen by them as the most efficient, thorough, and possibly politically correct ways to go about seeking better compliance with and enforcement of our tax laws. Unfortunately, for these new laws/methods to work, they kind of have to cover and be applicable to everyone to work. Don't forget that part of this is also to deter others from skirting the tax laws in the future. And the big fish of tomorrow usually start out as the little fish of today. So unfortunately, I doubt you'll see these new rules/laws being repealed anytime soon, if ever at all.

To expound on my earlier fish analogy, think of the government/IRS as fishermen casting out their nets to get a great catch. As in reality with real fishermen though, when they pull the nets back in they will, along with the big fish they sought to catch, also inevitably have ensnared a lot of little fish and other unintended creatures they weren't really after. Not much else they can do though if they really want to crack down on the tax evasion/fraud problem. Good luck, and feel free to ask if you have any more questions.

[Exhibitman]

Paying taxes you owe isn't new. The only thing that is new is eBay reporting our sales to the IRS directly so they can catch scofflaws who do not report their income or pay taxes on their profits. If you maintain accurate books and declare your income from cards already, the 1099 is a popcorn fart. I get dozens of them every year (lawyers get 1099d for everything) and just toss 'em in the shredder since I have accurate books I can document as needed.

Note that taxes are paid on profits, not gross receipts, as Bob pointed out. If you sell a card for $10 that cost you $9 you pay tax on the $1 profit. If that puts you at a loss with eBay fees, you need to be in a different business because your margins are too thin.

[Stupe the Second Sacker]

Originally Posted by BobC

As for this whole thing being so egregious for the small-time sellers, I don't necessarily disagree. The government is out for the bigger fish, but unfortunately these new reporting laws and thresholds are seen by them as the most efficient, thorough, and possibly politically correct ways to go about seeking better compliance with and enforcement of our tax laws. Unfortunately, for these new laws/methods to work, they kind of have to cover and be applicable to everyone to work. Don't forget that part of this is also to deter others from skirting the tax laws in the future. And the big fish of tomorrow usually start out as the little fish of today. So unfortunately, I doubt you'll see these new rules/laws being repealed anytime soon, if ever at all.

Interesting...Does the Gov't define the big fish as those that make more than $600 but less than $20K? In theory anyway, wouldn't the same big fish be caught at the $20K threshold? At face value, it doesn't feel like those are the people they are going after.