PWCC's 1936 Goudey World Wide Gum DiMaggio PSA 7

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Whodunit

If PSA allows this type of alteration/manipulation and grade anyway, Ill concede defeat. But, to my knowledge, that isnt the case. If I were buying a holder, Id do the same, but I buy cards. And I bought one hell of an altered 4. Lmao. And it wasnt even a PSA 4, it was SGC; and id rather own wrinkled, raw than SGC.

My guess is that whoever worked on it did a pretty good job and given the limited capabilities of a TPG (they are not crime labs), PSA did not detect anything. As Evan mentioned, lots of cards that get worked on end up in holders.

[Stonepony]

Lots of trash been thrown around...so who DID work on it?!?!

[conor912]

Originally Posted by Beastmode

PSA reviews PHYSICAL alternations, not chemical. Card's been trimmed, they note it; Card has been restored via chemical/water alteration, they don't give a shit.

What are trying to do, start another 400 post thread?!

[Rookiemonster]

Originally Posted by Stonepony

Lots of trash been thrown around...so who DID work on it?!?!

Unless the card was worked on by the person who submitted it to psa what the difference?

I want to here more about Pwcc disciples and organized shilling ! That's the meat a potatos of this conversation. The rabbit goes deeper then one joe DiMaggio it appears. If this is true then more then a few people have been legitimately ripped off. Especially if the other auction houses know what is going on and psa is just slabbing what ever with a higher grade for bigger customers.

[Whodunit]

Originally Posted by Beastmode

Courtney, for the record, PSA reviews PHYSICAL alternations, not chemical. Card's been trimmed, they note it; Card has been restored via chemical/water alteration, they don't give a shit.

Now it's been "disclosed" to you, and every vintage buyer reading this thread, when you buy/shill your next $100K card in a PSA Holder, it's possible that card has been chemically altered.

I'm not trying to bust your balls, but for goodness sakes, don't rely on the Auction House to give you that information. Most of them don't even disclose the bidders for dang sake.

Read ALL my posts, not simply the most recent one. Everything you just said has been discussed over the last 8 hrs.

And when accusing about shill bidding, have facts ready. I have all my facts. You, my $20 collector friend, obviously do not.

[Whodunit]

Originally Posted by Rookiemonster

Unless the card was worked on by the person who submitted it to psa what the difference?

I want to here more about Pwcc disciples and organized shilling ! That's the meat a potatos of this conversation. The rabbit goes deeper then one joe DiMaggio it appears. If this is true then more then a few people have been legitimately ripped off. Especially if the other auction houses know what is going on and psa is just slabbing what ever with a higher grade for bigger customers.

Have you read the last 10 pages of this thread? Scroll back to the ones that started early this morning and work your way to the end. Your pwcc questions HAVE BEEN EXPOSED today.

[Rookiemonster]

Originally Posted by Whodunit

Have you read the last 10 pages of this thread? Scroll back to the ones that started early this morning and work your way to the end. Your pwcc questions HAVE BEEN EXPOSED today.

I have read back and I don't see any details on the disciples and organized shilling. Just that you said it was going on . I see this topic has made its way to Blowout already to .

[1952boyntoncollector]

There have been a lot of cards that were glued to collector album then removed.

Gonewiththestain.com shows a bunch of 1952 topps for example that were glued that they 'fixed'.

If got the card graded before it was doctored, it would be an' A' after buying the A at a low price and doctoring it, it could be a psa 5.

I have never seen an auction house ever say that any card was glued to a photo album and then 'something happened' to the card and now its a PSA 5.

If you found out that your PSA 5 card came from a card that was glued to a collector album do you get your money back. Is the card truly a PSA 5? I would argue that it is a PSA 5 and you were not scammed.....

If the seller disclosed this, they probably get less for the card, but if they dont disclose it, they get more for the card but later people may find out about it and the seller may lose value in the market when trying to sell other things...who knows...

Noone knows exactly what the methods of how the card was changed to get into a PSA 7 was. There seems to be a big disagreement about what method is wrong and what methods would be deemed more acceptable.

i just think we are missing a big piece of the puzzle....

[Brent Huigens]

Board Members,

Here are a few comments on some of the points made by participants of this post:

• Though not part of our regular service offering, PWCC has had cards graded on behalf of our clients, usually at major shows, which are then consigned to our auctions. In rarer cases, we have also purchased cards on behalf of consignors with whom we manage a credit. This is largely consistent with every other auction house in the country.
• We did indeed engage PSA to verify the accuracy of their assessment on this 1936 WWG DiMaggio. As we strongly believed, the card is graded accurately and this was re-confirmed by PSA prior the auction sale.

I want to make another point here. Courtney DeLorme is a person with whom we no longer do business. Mr. DeLorme is now the first person in the history of PWCC to have been blocked as an individual rather than a specific user ID. This action was decided upon as a result to the ever-expanding list of abuse to our company, us as individuals, and the hobby at large. His main user ID has been blocked for some time due to extensive bid retractions. Last week all other user IDs associated with Mr. DeLorme were blocked due to personal threats and abuse, auction manipulation, and a very large unpaid debt. Mr. DeLorme went so far as to attack me on my personal Facebook page which was unfortunately viewed by many of my own friends and family. Many people know the reputation that Mr. DeLorme carries in the hobby; no longer doing business with him has been a huge relief for our family.

Betsy Huigens

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Brent Huigens

Board Members,

Here are a few comments on some of the points made by participants of this post:

• Though not part of our regular service offering, PWCC has had cards graded on behalf of our clients, usually at major shows, which are then consigned to our auctions. In rarer cases, we have also purchased cards on behalf of consignors with whom we manage a credit. This is largely consistent with every other auction house in the country.
• We did indeed engage PSA to verify the accuracy of their assessment on this 1936 WWG DiMaggio. As we strongly believed, the card is graded accurately and this was re-confirmed by PSA prior the auction sale.

Betsy Huigens

Sounds like a bad situation. I wonder how a consignor can have a large debt though with an auction house. Sounds like a very long relationship and for some reason it went sour. Seems like a lose lose situation

[Whodunit]

So, now Betsy, they get screenshots regarding your husband asking me via text just a few short weeks ago to shill bid.......been waiting all day for this one. ;-) thank you for FINALLY OBLIGING me.

And, Betsy, spell my name right.

[Whodunit]

Fyi

[Whodunit]

Me tring to pay this "very large unpaid debt" up to over a week ago that he refuses to invoice me on. Wpuld yall like to see a screenshot of the 250k wite Id sent him the month prior.

Bring it on Betsy. Ive got plenty more

[orly57]

Judging by Ms. Huigen's first point, it looks like Brent's defense is going to be that he sent the card to psa on behalf of a consigner. He will say the consigner bought the card as an SGC 4, had it doctored, gave it to Brent to send to psa (he gets the grade bumps), and had Brent sell it to Cortney for 75k. That is what I glean from that post. Maybe I am off.
Cortney, I think you got screwed here buddy, but you really didn't do any due diligence before buying a 75k card. When I buy my pathetic 4-figure cards I always look at past sales. I would have immediately noticed that the marks on the 4 match the marks on the card Brent was trying to pawn off on me. This is a low-pop card, so there aren't that many past sales to look through. Those marks are visible from a mile away. Or perhaps you did realize it too late and that was the reason you decided to consign it when you did. Because I can't imagine you thought you were gonna get more than the 75k you put into it.

[Whodunit]

Lmk when you process the "unpaid item" screen shots that Ive clearly refuted. Ill throw in a pic of the wire when youre ready.

Then, shall we go further with him asking me to shill bid Betsy? I can oblige. ;-)

[Rookiemonster]

See Courtney this is what I was referring to lol

[Stampsfan]

Originally Posted by Whodunit

I have all my facts. You, my $20 collector friend, obviously do not.

You know what dude. You had me until this post.

Your comment shows what a dipsh*t douche you must be. Playing the "I spend more money than you so my credibility is higher, and my opinion is right." card. What a loser... comments like this by losers like you make my stomach turn.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Brent Huigens

Board Members,

Here are a few comments on some of the points made by participants of this post:

• Though not part of our regular service offering, PWCC has had cards graded on behalf of our clients, usually at major shows, which are then consigned to our auctions. In rarer cases, we have also purchased cards on behalf of consignors with whom we manage a credit. This is largely consistent with every other auction house in the country.
• We did indeed engage PSA to verify the accuracy of their assessment on this 1936 WWG DiMaggio. As we strongly believed, the card is graded accurately and this was re-confirmed by PSA prior the auction sale.

I want to make another point here. Courtney DeLorme is a person with whom we no longer do business. Mr. DeLorme is now the first person in the history of PWCC to have been blocked as an individual rather than a specific user ID. This action was decided upon as a result to the ever-expanding list of abuse to our company, us as individuals, and the hobby at large. His main user ID has been blocked for some time due to extensive bid retractions. Last week all other user IDs associated with Mr. DeLorme were blocked due to personal threats and abuse, auction manipulation, and a very large unpaid debt. Mr. DeLorme went so far as to attack me on my personal Facebook page which was unfortunately viewed by many of my own friends and family. Many people know the reputation that Mr. DeLorme carries in the hobby; no longer doing business with him has been a huge relief for our family.

Betsy Huigens

You don't deny the essential facts (for me) though -- that Brent knew the history of this card when he listed it. Whether he bought it and sold it for someone else, or with a partner, or for himself, don't affect anything. And PWCC's dealings with Cortney are beside the point too.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Stampsfan

You know what dude. You had me until this post.

Your comment shows what a dipsh*t douche you must be. Playing the "I spend more money than you so my credibility is higher, and my opinion is right." card. What a loser... comments like this by losers like you make my stomach turn.

My Canadian friend I thought I'd share this:

"You can't be great if you're not rich, I'm sorry, but it's true"

-an unnamed American President

[Rookiemonster]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

My Canadian friend I thought I'd share this:

"You can't be great if you're not rich, I'm sorry, but it's true"

-an unnamed American President

Sounds like something Obama would say ...

[botn]

Post #412's screen capture pretty much demonstrates there is no truth to this policy of PWCC's:
Auction Integrity
No Shill

The integrity of bidding on our auctions is our highest priority. The sportscard hobby hinges on the honesty and integrity of the seller, and collectors deserve a bidding environment that is 100% legitimate and uninfluenced by manipulation such as fraudulent bidding by the auction house, consignors, friends of consignors, friends of the auction house, or anyone else who participates insincerely with the sole intention of manipulating the sale price.

I know this thread is about the WWG Joe D but that text Cortney posted is incredibly damaging to Brent...think someone posted the other day in support of Brent, stating to keep doing what he is doing. Post may have been a bit premature.

[PhillipAbbott79]

Originally Posted by Whodunit

Fyi

Hole. E. Shit.

[RedsFan1941]

guys, you're seriously going to litter what is becoming an even greater thread with political talk? please be quiet

[Whodunit]

Can somebody get Brent or Betsy to try and refute the 2 images I posted refuting her remarks about their shill bid policy and my "very large unpaid debt". Or is he trying to figure out a response for why he wouldnt/wont send a 60k invoice when i clearly asked for one quite a while ago.......weeks. Or, would yall like the rest of those messages?

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Whodunit

Me tring to pay this "very large unpaid debt" up to over a week ago that he refuses to invoice me on. Wpuld yall like to see a screenshot of the 250k wite Id sent him the month prior.

Bring it on Betsy. Ive got plenty more

You really need to show the whole text conversation...anyone can pick and choose a certain part of a text conversation to support their view. What texted before the screen shot and what was texted afterwards are pertinent if you are showing your side, otherwise it looks like they are not there for a reason.

[PhillipAbbott79]

Originally Posted by Whodunit

Can somebody get Brent or Betsy to try and refute the 2 images I posted refuting her remarks about their shill bid policy and my "very large unpaid debt". Or is he trying to figure out a response for why he wouldnt/wont send a 60k invoice when i clearly asked for one quite a while ago.......weeks. Or, would yall like the rest of those messages?

Do not stop now. Open up the flood gates my man. This is a serious story with serious facts about something that has been brewing for a LONG time.

Show us the light.

[irv]

Originally Posted by Whodunit

Fyi

Wow!

That's an eye opener!

I knew this stuff went on in the hobby, but I never expected PWCC to be participating.

Naive, I guess?

[1952boyntoncollector]

Why he not sell the 75k card on pwcc and shill it to more than the 50k (what he got at the other auction house) since he has so much control.....

[BeanTown]

Originally Posted by Brent Huigens

Board Members,

Here are a few comments on some of the points made by participants of this post:

• Though not part of our regular service offering, PWCC has had cards graded on behalf of our clients, usually at major shows, which are then consigned to our auctions. In rarer cases, we have also purchased cards on behalf of consignors with whom we manage a credit. This is largely consistent with every other auction house in the country.
• We did indeed engage PSA to verify the accuracy of their assessment on this 1936 WWG DiMaggio. As we strongly believed, the card is graded accurately and this was re-confirmed by PSA prior the auction sale.

I want to make another point here. Courtney DeLorme is a person with whom we no longer do business. Mr. DeLorme is now the first person in the history of PWCC to have been blocked as an individual rather than a specific user ID. This action was decided upon as a result to the ever-expanding list of abuse to our company, us as individuals, and the hobby at large. His main user ID has been blocked for some time due to extensive bid retractions. Last week all other user IDs associated with Mr. DeLorme were blocked due to personal threats and abuse, auction manipulation, and a very large unpaid debt. Mr. DeLorme went so far as to attack me on my personal Facebook page which was unfortunately viewed by many of my own friends and family. Many people know the reputation that Mr. DeLorme carries in the hobby; no longer doing business with him has been a huge relief for our family.

Betsy Huigens

So, PWCC knew about Mr. DeLorme's multiple Ebay user IDs? You blocked his "main" user ID and other "associated" IDs with Mr. DeLorme. I thought Ebay only allowed one user ID? Did you turn him into Ebay and how many consigners does PWCC have that have/use multiple ebay user IDs?

Cortney, how many eBay IDs do you have and why?

If eBay allows one seller account and one buyer account then fine. I do not know Ebay rules and I do not sell in eBay.

[irv]

Originally Posted by botn

Post #412's screen capture pretty much demonstrates there is no truth to this policy of PWCC's:
Auction Integrity
No Shill

The integrity of bidding on our auctions is our highest priority. The sportscard hobby hinges on the honesty and integrity of the seller, and collectors deserve a bidding environment that is 100% legitimate and uninfluenced by manipulation such as fraudulent bidding by the auction house, consignors, friends of consignors, friends of the auction house, or anyone else who participates insincerely with the sole intention of manipulating the sale price.

I know this thread is about the WWG Joe D but that text Cortney posted is incredibly damaging to Brent...think someone posted the other day in support of Brent, stating to keep doing what he is doing. Post may have been a bit premature.

No kidding!

I never had an issue dealing with PWCC, and like I mentioned above, I thought they were above board, but it's clear to see now, I drank way too much of the Kool-Aid.

[Republicaninmass]

Ebay does allow two

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by botn

I know this thread is about the WWG Joe D but that text Cortney posted is incredibly damaging to Brent...think someone posted the other day in support of Brent, stating to keep doing what he is doing. Post may have been a bit premature.

Didn't Cortney say earlier that he was bidding on the WWG because he wanted to buy it back? Now he's saying he was asked to shill? A lot of what's being said just doesn't add up.

[Whodunit]

She (betsy/brent) started another thread. There's several in that one too. I can barely figure out how to do a screenshot attachment; work with me as i learn to blow this stuff up and show more than a few lines at a time. Betsy/Brent obviously didnt think I kept these things for times like this. Ill take a few insults, but lie to me or about me (large unpaid debt....that he refuses to accept or bill) and im gonna unleash the beast. Little thing called integrity and pride.

As for whoever asked for the whole conversation, please teach me how to upload the entire file, and ill oblige.......but, im not sure this web page has the capabilities of uploading a file that large......which is why i chose 3 arguments....1) refuting the anti shill bid policy with direct text from brent, 2) refuting the debt with a shot of my actively asking for invoices, and 3).......whatever that one was. Lol.

[PhillipAbbott79]

I have some questions that I think I know the answer to.

1. When listing in certain ways, it is possible to tell that someone put in a max bid that can be bid up to. I noticed this when my wife was selling some house hold items, that her Ipad would ding differently. Like 2 times or something like that. That is legit, I just don't remember the specifics or if it has changed.

When Brent said that I guarantee you will be outbid, how can he possibly guarantee that?

2. I do notice you telling him off about how to bid. Maybe some context is in order. That screen shot was the heart of it, but what is before and after that?

Can you please share the larger conversation, no matter how it may look upon you?

[PhillipAbbott79]

Originally Posted by Whodunit

She (betsy/brent) started another thread. There's several in that one too. I can barely figure out how to do a screenshot attachment; work with me as i learn to blow this stuff up and show more than a few lines at a time. Betsy/Brent obviously didnt think I kept these things for times like this. Ill take a few insults, but lie to me or about me (large unpaid debt....that he refuses to accept or bill) and im gonna unleash the beast. Little thing called integrity and pride.

As for whoever asked for the whole conversation, please teach me how to upload the entire file, and ill oblige.......but, im not sure this web page has the capabilities of uploading a file that large......which is why i chose 3 arguments....1) refuting the anti shill bid policy with direct text from brent, 2) refuting the debt with a shot of my actively asking for invoices, and 3).......whatever that one was. Lol.

There is a way to export an entire conversation. Try this: https://discussions.apple.com/thread...art=0&tstart=0

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Whodunit

Go to the auction. Look at the date that it started. Look at when S***N bid on the card to buy it back b/c I'd lost 25K on the card and would have rather had it in my collection at that price than see it go somewhere else.

Here you say you were bidding on the card to buy it back for your collection. Now you're saying you were asked to shill. Which is it?

[Rookiemonster]

Originally Posted by Whodunit

She (betsy/brent) started another thread. There's several in that one too. I can barely figure out how to do a screenshot attachment; work with me as i learn to blow this stuff up and show more than a few lines at a time. Betsy/Brent obviously didnt think I kept these things for times like this. Ill take a few insults, but lie to me or about me (large unpaid debt....that he refuses to accept or bill) and im gonna unleash the beast. Little thing called integrity and pride.

As for whoever asked for the whole conversation, please teach me how to upload the entire file, and ill oblige.......but, im not sure this web page has the capabilities of uploading a file that large......which is why i chose 3 arguments....1) refuting the anti shill bid policy with direct text from brent, 2) refuting the debt with a shot of my actively asking for invoices, and 3).......whatever that one was. Lol.

Not really sure how to myself but if you take a screen shot then zoom in you can do it piece by piece.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Here you say you were bidding on the card to buy it back for your collection. Now you're saying you were asked to shill. Which is it?

Well he may of shilled to a point and then noticed the price point wasnt going over a certain amount so than switched to buying it.

[PhillipAbbott79]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Well he may of shilled to a point and then noticed the price point wasnt going over a certain amount so than switched to buying it.

Maybe he intended to buy it and was asked to shill it.

[Brent Huigens]

Cortney placed a series of sequential bids, and because they weren't placed at the minimum bid increment, they didn't fall outside our policy. Regardless, this bidding behavior didn't bode well for the auction. We didn't want to cancel his bids because he hadn't technically behaved in a way that would warrant cancellation. We do feel that as long as a series of bids results in a bidder becoming the high bidder, the intention of the bidding is to win the card. This is why we asked him to become the high bidder. Cortney was a bidder who required constant monitoring and management; this level of communication doesn't exist for other buyers. We are relieved to not have to engage with him moving forward.

Betsy Huigens

[PhillipAbbott79]

Originally Posted by Brent Huigens

Cortney placed a series of sequential bids, and because they weren't placed at the minimum bid increment, they didn't fall outside our policy. Regardless, this bidding behavior didn't bode well for the auction. We didn't want to cancel his bids because he hadn't technically behaved in a way that would warrant cancellation. We do feel that as long as a series of bids results in a bidder becoming the high bidder, the intention of the bidding is to win the card. This is why we asked him to become the high bidder. Cortney was a bidder who required constant monitoring and management; this level of communication doesn't exist for other buyers. We are relieved to not have to engage with him moving forward.

Betsy Huigens

No offense, but if I am not mistaken, Ebay allows you to bid in any increment you wish, obviously limited by how their system is designed. You specifically asked him to inflate his bid amount and subsequently the price because he will be outbid. I am not sure how you "spin" this in any way to make it ok. You told him to bid so he won't win because he will be outbid. What sort of moronic response is the quoted one?

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Brent Huigens

Cortney placed a series of sequential bids, and because they weren't placed at the minimum bid increment, they didn't fall outside our policy. Regardless, this bidding behavior didn't bode well for the auction. We didn't want to cancel his bids because he hadn't technically behaved in a way that would warrant cancellation. We do feel that as long as a series of bids results in a bidder becoming the high bidder, the intention of the bidding is to win the card. This is why we asked him to become the high bidder. Cortney was a bidder who required constant monitoring and management; this level of communication doesn't exist for other buyers. We are relieved to not have to engage with him moving forward.

Betsy Huigens

That sounds reasonable. Cortney's story has changed. He first said that he bid to buy it back for his collection, now he's saying he was asked to shill. Can't trust someone whose story changes like that.

[Scocs]

Is this a genuine Net54 thread....or a fever dream?!

[Whodunit]

You really just went there knowing I have the texts and you have nothong but your thoughts? I have proof and you have.....? Youre stating "words", Im showing the community the types of conversations I had with Brent. Are you really prepared for what Im about to show them? Defend the starement about my "very large unpaid debt" with a screenshot that followed your post asking for an invoice long before today. ;-) Come on now Brent, dont pick and choose what to defend....and quit hiding behind Betsy's name. You know me well enough to know that every time you lie about me, im gonna refute it and show them more.

Sequential bids? Ebay states I dont have to bid more than min 100 bid increments......look at that auction.....there's no min bid even in there. Auction houses have the same policy. So, are you saying min bid behavior, even if its 1k bid increments, isnt sufficient for you?. Sounds like you need to take that up with ebay.

But, back to the shill bidding texts, here are more between Brent and me.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by PhillipAbbott79

No offense, but if I am not mistaken, Ebay allows you to bid in any increment you wish, obviously limited by how their system is designed. You specifically asked him to inflate his bid amount and subsequently the price because he will be outbid. I am not sure how you "spin" this in any way to make it ok. You told him to bid so he won't win because he will be outbid. What sort of moronic response is the quoted one?

Thats a good point there

"But, back to the shill bidding texts, here are more between Brent and me. "

They were not attached whodunit

[Whodunit]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

That sounds reasonable. Cortney's story has changed. He first said that he bid to buy it back for his collection, now he's saying he was asked to shill. Can't trust someone whose story changes like that.

Story has not changed. Are you brain dead. I stated that i was bidding to win it back until i found out about the thread and the altered card. At that point i quit bidding and brent asked me to keep it going. So, how is bidding to buy it back changing when i stated i quit bidding when i found out about the fraud. Id suggest you go back and read the thread David bc youre obviously either drunk, dead brain cells or dont have the capacity for cognitive thinking and reasoning. Look at time stamps if youre confused.

[botn]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

That sounds reasonable. Cortney's story has changed. He first said that he bid to buy it back for his collection, now he's saying he was asked to shill. Can't trust someone whose story changes like that.

I think Cortney also said he stopped bidding as soon as someone made him aware of this thread. Not saying Cortney is completely an innocent participant in regards to his dealings with Brent over the last 5 years but Cortney has not posted here and on other boards repeatedly assuring auction integrity, which seems is now being called into question from someone on the inside.

[gnaz01]

It looks like at the end of Cortney's text screenshot, he states "play games? Go f#%^ yourself" if my tired eyes are good.....

[Whodunit]

Yes, that's what it says. The go f yourself was a text i sent him in that sequence. I obviously dont appreciate games or being accused of playing them. Lemme see if i can get the rest of that sequence.

[PhillipAbbott79]

That is what it says.