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#401
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I sold that one to Jantz. Sad to think I won't be seeing him again.[/QUOTE]
Hi Ed, Yes I remember when he posted it that he said he had bought it off you. Jantz was one of those few people that you never heard anyone that had anything bad to say about him. I used to meet up with him at all the nationals that I went to and I've lost interest in going this year after hearing about his passing. |
#402
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T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theorys, Surveys......T206 printed sheet structure
* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *
Continuing on the "12 factor" theme. There are also some subtle examples of the "12 factor" regarding the printing of T206 backs in certain Series. One example that comes to mind is the EPDG cards in the 350 Series. Exactly 108 subjects were printed with the EPDG back. Therefore, creating a possible sheet which is formatted with 12 cards across by 9 rows down. 350 Series .................... 108 subjects printed with EPDG backs Abbott Anderson Atz Barbeau Barger Batch Beck Bender (trees) Blackburne Bliss Brain Brashear Bresnahan (bat) Burchell Burke Burns Bush Campbell Casey Chance (yellow portrait) Chase (blue portrait) Chase (dark cap) Cobb (red portrait) Collins (A's) Collins (Minneapolis) Congalton Cravath Cree Davidson Demmitt (New York) Dineen Joe Doyle (arms over head) Dubuc Dunn (Baltimore) Dunn (Brooklyn) Easterly Egan Evans Evers (bat-yellow sky) Fiene (portrait) Fiene (throwing) Flanagan Freeman Fromme Gasper Graham (Boston) Graham (St Louis) Gray Groom Hallman Hannifan Hartsel Hinchman (Toledo) Hoblitzell Hofman Hoffman (Providence) Hulswitt Jackson Kelley Kisinger Kleinow (catching-NY) Knight (bat) Krause (portrait) Kruger Lattimore Lavender Livingstone Lord Lundgren (Kansas City) Maddox Mathewson (dark cap) Mattern McAleese McCormick McLean Miller (Pittsburg) Milligan Myers (fielding) Nattress Oakes Oberlin Pfeister (seated) Phillippe Purtell Puttman Quillen Rhoades (arm extended) Rhodes Rudolph Schlafly Scott Shannon Sharpe Shaw (Providence) Smith (Buffalo) F. Smith (Chicago) Stanage Stephens Sweeney (Boston) Jesse Tannehill Taylor Thomas Titus White (Buffalo) Willett Wilson Wright Zimmerman TED Z . |
#403
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Thanks for continuing to post all of this great information Ted. It is nice to have a thread at the top of the board that deals with something other than complaining.
__________________
Collection: https://www.flickr.com/photos/132359235@N05/sets/ Ebay listings: https://www.ebay.com/sch/harrydoyle/...p2047675.l2562 Last edited by Jobu; 06-02-2018 at 01:06 PM. |
#404
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Hi Bryan
I appreciate the complimentary words, good buddy. TED Z . |
#405
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T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theorys, Surveys.....Show us your BROAD LEAF 350 cards
* * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *
In post #25 here, I present the A-B-C-D connection. ALC printed these T206 backs during the Summer of 1910. Theoretically, 190 subjects in the 350 Series were printed with each of these 4 backs. The AMERICAN BEAUTY and CYCLE backs have been confirmed with all 190 subjects. The tougher BROAD LEAF back has (so far) been confirmed with 177 subjects. And, the rare DRUM back has (so far) been confirmed with 151 (350 Series) subjects. Here's the current list of the 177 subjects which have been confirmed with the BROAD LEAF 350 back: Abbott Abstein Adkins Anderson Arellanes Armbruster Arndt Barbeau Barry (A's) Barry (Milwaukee) Batch Beck Becker Beckley Bender (trees) Bescher (portrait) Blackburne Bliss Brain Bresnahan (bat) Burchell Burke Burns Bush Butler Campbell Carrigan Casey Cassidy Chance (portrait-yellow) Chappelle Charles Chase (portrait-blue) Clancy Clark Clymer Eddie Collins Congalton Cravath Cree Davidson Delehanty (Louisville) Dessau Dineen Donovan (throwing) Doolan (fielding) Dorner Downey (fielding) Downs Dubuc Jack Dunn (Baltimore) Joe Dunn (Brooklyn) Dygert Egan Engle Evers (yellow sky) Fiene (portrait) Fiene (throwing) Flanagan Fletcher Freeman Fromme Ganzel Gasper Graham (Boston) Graham (St Louis) Grimshaw Hall Hallman Hannifan Hartsel Hayden Hinchman (Toledo) Hoblitzell Hoffman (Providence) Hoffman (St Louis) Hofman Howard (Chicago) Howell (portrait) Huggins (portrait) Huggins (hands at mouth) Hulswitt Hunter Jackson Jones (Detroit) Kelley Killian (portrait) Kisinger Knabe Knight (portrait) Knight (bat) Krause (portrait) Krause (pitching) Kroh Kruger LaPorte Lattimore Lavender Lennox Livingstone Lord Maddox Malarkey Maloney Marquard (portrait) Marshall McAleese McBride McCormick McElveen McGinley McGinnity McGlynn McIntyre (Detroit) Merritt Milan Miller (Pittsburg) Milligan Mitchell (Cinci) Mitchell (Toronto) Moeller Moran (Chicago) Moran (Providence) Moriarty Mullen (portrait) Murray (bat) Myers (bat) Myers (fielding) Nattress Oakes Oberlin O'Brien O'Neill Paskert Perring Pfeister (seated) Phelan Phelps Phillippe Poland Purtell Quillen Quinn Randall Raymond Rhoades (hands at chest) Rhodes Ritter Rudolph Schirm Schreck Scott Sharpe Shaw (Providence) Slagle Smith (Buffalo) Snodgrass (bat) Speaker Stanage Starr Strang Street (portrait) Summers Sweeney (Boston) J. Tannehill (Washington) Taylor Thielman Thomas Titus Unglaub Warhop White (Buffalo) Willett (bat) Wilson Wright Irv Young Zimmerman Hey guys, Let's see some BROAD LEAF 350 cards. Especially, if you have one that does not appear on this list. I expect that eventually we'll find the 13 missing BL 350 guys. TED Z . Last edited by tedzan; 06-04-2018 at 06:08 PM. Reason: Corrected typo. |
#406
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Hi Ted, I hope all is well.
Totally off-topic, so please forgive me. I notice lately on ebay there are many Brown Hindus and Black Lenox (what is plural of Lenox??), that have paper loss on the back from where it seems the cards we glued to an album. My gut is that many of these cards must have come from the same collection, because its just too coincidental that this many of these backs are around at the same time, all with back damage. So, two questions: 1. Was there ever a large find of Broen Hindus or Black Lenox that all had back damage? 2. Were Brown Hindus and Black Lenox only released in certain parts of the country (like I think Drum and Nadja (in e cards) was St. Louis? |
#407
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Quote:
Brown HIMDU cards occasionally are found with back damage. Shown here is the last remaining one I have from a lot of brown HINDU's with back damage that I picked up some years ago. . #2.....Factory #30 in New York manufactured the LENOX brand. LENOX brand tobacco products were mainly marketed in the New York area & New England. TED Z . |
#408
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T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theorys, Surveys.....Show us your BROAD LEAF 350 cards
Continuing on with the BROAD LEAF 350 (BL 350) theme....certain T206's with BL 350 backs are extremely rare. Much more rare than
a good majority of the T206's with the BL 350 backs. An excellent example of this is my blue Chase BL 350 card. I traded for this card in 1990 with my old buddy, Ralph. Ralph was great at finding rare T206 front/back combos in his neck of the woods (the Great Smoky Mountains region). This BL 350 blue Chase card was the only known one for many years. It's my understanding that another one was recently discovered. Although, I have not seen it yet. Furthermore, PSA and SGC pop reports do not indicate any blue Chase / BL 350 cards graded. If a DRUM card of Mr. Chase ever shows up, I will have a chance to complete this A-B-C-C-D sub-set. The following 13 subjects have yet to be confirmed with BL 350 backs. I expect these cards will eventually be discovered. Atz Brashear Carr Chase (dark cap) Cobb (red portrait) Easterly Ferguson Mathewson (dark cap) McGann Pickering Schlafly Schmidt (portrait) Stephens So, come on guys, show-off your BL 350 cards. And perhaps, some one on this forum may come up with one of these missing 13 guys. TED Z . |
#409
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Here are Two Blue Chase Broad Leaf 350's that are graded
by PSA Ted. Chase (Blue Portrait) BL350 PSA 1.5.jpg Chase (Blue Portrait) BL350 PSA 1.jpg |
#410
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Abbott is #1 -------------alphabetically at least.
__________________
FRANK:BUR:KETT - RAUCOUS SPORTS CARD FORUM MEMBER AND MONSTER NUMBER FATHER. GOOD FOR THE HOBBY AND THE FORUM WITH A VAULT IN AN UNDISCLOSED LOCATION FILLED WITH NON-FUNGIBLES 274/1000 Monster Number Nearly*1000* successful B/S/T transactions completed from 2012 to 2024. Over 680 sales with satisfied Board members served. If you want fries with your order, just speak up. Thank you all. Now nearly PQ. |
#411
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T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theorys, Surveys.....Show us your BROAD LEAF 350 cards
Hey Frank Great looking BROAD LEAF 350 Abbott.....thanks for posting. Excuse me for correcting you, but #1 is actually Abbaticchio. Quote:
Hi Pat Thanks for posting the BROAD LEAF 350 blue Chase cards. But, I don't see these two cards listed in the PSA pop report data ? ? TED Z . |
#412
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My sole BL 350; it now resides in an SGC 55 case.
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#413
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T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theorys, Surveys.....Show us your BROAD LEAF 350 cards
Hi Ryan
Great looking BROAD LEAF 350 Evers. and, I'll add to these 2 guys to our gallery of BROAD LEAF 350 cards...... . TED Z . |
#414
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Here is my only Broadleaf.
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#415
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Hey Frank
Great looking BROAD LEAF 350 Abbott.....thanks for posting. Excuse me for correcting you, but #1 is actually Abbaticchio. Well Ted, on your list of 177 possibles Abbott is #1. Mr. Abbaticchio is not on the list.
__________________
FRANK:BUR:KETT - RAUCOUS SPORTS CARD FORUM MEMBER AND MONSTER NUMBER FATHER. GOOD FOR THE HOBBY AND THE FORUM WITH A VAULT IN AN UNDISCLOSED LOCATION FILLED WITH NON-FUNGIBLES 274/1000 Monster Number Nearly*1000* successful B/S/T transactions completed from 2012 to 2024. Over 680 sales with satisfied Board members served. If you want fries with your order, just speak up. Thank you all. Now nearly PQ. |
#416
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T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theorys, Surveys.....Show us your BROAD LEAF 350 cards
Frank, good buddy, you are absolutely correct. Don't mind me....it's been a long day TED Z . |
#417
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I recently found a Frank Chance portrait yellow Broad Leaf 350 in a collection purchased. It is at PSA right now. Grade should have popped already, still waiting. PSA pop report shows only 1 ever graded.
__________________
Always looking for OPC baseball Email: OPCBaseball@yahoo.com Owner www.opcbaseball.com www.OPeeCheeInternational.com |
#418
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Quote:
Hi Ted, They're in the pop reports maybe it's whatever browser you're using. Chase Blue Pop Report.jpg |
#419
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Quote:
Hi Pat Thanks for the current PSA pop report data. I guess I've been clicking on an old PSA link. Please email me the PSA link you are using. tedzan11@comcast.net Thanks again, TED Z . |
#420
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T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theorys, Surveys.....Show us your BROAD LEAF 350 cards
rats60
Good looking BROAD LEAF 350 Kruger....thanks for posting it. TED Z . |
#421
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T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theorys, Surveys.....Show us your BROAD LEAF 350 cards
Just a friendly bump, showing off another BL 350 of mine. So, let's see some more of your BL 350 cards.
. TED Z . Last edited by tedzan; 06-06-2018 at 06:50 PM. Reason: Corrected typo. |
#422
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#423
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Beautiful Broad Leafs guys. Love that Mullen!
__________________
ThatT206Life.com |
#424
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T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theorys, Surveys.....Show us your BROAD LEAF 350 cards
Just posting my McGinley in order to pop this to the top of the Net54 page.
And perhaps, we'll have some more members of this forum displaying their BROAD LEAF 350 cards. TED Z . Last edited by tedzan; 05-29-2020 at 11:13 AM. |
#425
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No front pic
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#426
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T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theorys, Surveys.....Show us your BROAD LEAF 350 cards
MR RAREBACK
Can you show the fronts of those nine BROAD LEAF 350 cards ? Or, at least tell us which T206's these 9 cards are ? Thanks, TED Z . |
#427
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don't know off hand will have to get back to you
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#428
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BL
A few
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#429
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T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theorys, Surveys.....Show us your BROAD LEAF 350 cards
Hey guys
It's important to show the fronts of your BROAD LEAF 350 cards....or, at least tell us which T206 guys are their fronts. Recall, that we are also interested in finding any of the missing 13 guys that would complete this 190 card run. Listed here are the missing 13 subjects we are looking to find with BROAD LEAF 350 backs...... Atz Brashear Carr Chase (dark cap) Cobb (red portrait) Easterly Ferguson Mathewson (dark cap) McGann Pickering Schlafly Schmidt (portrait) Stephens Well, having said all this....show us some more of your BROAD LEAF 350 cards. Thanks, TED Z . |
#430
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Long time reader, first time poster
I'm in no way well versed on the t206 set though I have been collecting it for a few years(monster number around 400 or so) and a little while back I wanted to add more disappointment to my life and began a Tolstoi sub set which I am about 70 cards into.....and one thing I have noticed is out of those 70 cards roughly 50 of them have the ghost image of the Tolstoi back showing on the front of the card, far more rate of occurrence than other backs it's seems and it made me wonder....why? What was different....did they use a different ink that dried slower? Did the guy that moved the sheets just not care about his job anymore? Was the ink used similar to newspaper ink and possibly a collector stacked them together in a humid area and it led to the ink bleeding onto the card behind it, a wet transfer but in an attic? Am I just imagining this whole thing? I have noticed I have zero ghost images on any card with a red background. Last edited by Dpoolem3; 06-14-2018 at 11:26 AM. |
#431
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3 1 40701092 GOOD 2 1909-11 T206 Broad Leaf 350 Frank Chance Portrait-Yellow
Grade just posted, only the 2nd PSA card graded. Small light spot on back that has paper loss, otherwise looks like 4+
__________________
Always looking for OPC baseball Email: OPCBaseball@yahoo.com Owner www.opcbaseball.com www.OPeeCheeInternational.com |
#432
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Quote:
I do believe that is you started a NeW Thread Wit this as a Topic... "TOLSTOI BLACK INK QUESTION" or one to your more liking The T206 Gents Will Arise to the Occasion!!! I do have an Opinion... Howevar, as they have said ~"When iN Rome" Good Day to Ya!
__________________
Life's Grand, Denny Walsh |
#433
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Quote:
Hi Dpoolem3 Welcome to the club. Stacking these 108 year old cards together in a humid area (attic or otherwise) would not result in the ink bleeding onto the card behind it. Would you mind listing these 50 cards in your collection that have this wet-ink "Tolstoi" transfer image on their fronts ? I have an idea of how this occurred and I'm looking for a pattern in these cards that may tell us why. TED Z . |
#434
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Quote:
Having a yard sale this morning, as soon as I'm done I will get them out of the safe and post a list of each card and either yes or no in regards to the wst. Realistically it's going to be about half and half probably. I also have 2 Tolstoi's that I bought from separate people that were in the same box at one point because both have a water stain in the exact same area like they were stored upright and water got into whatever they were in and stained both cards(of the same player) in the exact same spot. Be after lunch but I'll have the list posted up by then. |
#435
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Just in the door...
__________________
Always looking for OPC baseball Email: OPCBaseball@yahoo.com Owner www.opcbaseball.com www.OPeeCheeInternational.com |
#436
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Deleted
Double post.
Last edited by tedzan; 06-19-2018 at 06:43 AM. |
#437
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T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theorys, Surveys.....Show us your BROAD LEAF 350 cards
Great looking card, Tom. Thanks for posting it. TED Z . |
#438
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Here are most of mine:
__________________
ThatT206Life.com |
#439
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Quote:
Hi Dpoolem3 When you get a chance, could you provide a list of only the wet-ink "Tolstoi" transfer cards you have. It's not necessary to list all your Tolstoi cards. Thanks, TED Z . |
#440
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T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theorys, Surveys.....Show us your BROAD LEAF 350 cards
Hi Luke
Thanks for posting your BROAD LEAF cards. I like the Willett....I'm doing an A-B-C-C-D run of his cards. TED Z . |
#441
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T206 REFERENCE, Reflections....comparable printing patterns of the T206's and T205's
* * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *
Due to their very close affiliation, I refer to these 350 Series T206's as the A-B-C-D connection Time to switch off to a side-track in order to compare similar printing patterns between the T206 & T205 sets. In the Summer of 1910, American Lithographic (ALC) introduced a new set of T-brands (AMERICAN BEAUTY, BROAD LEAF, CYCLE, and DRUM). My research shows that ALC printed 190 subjects from the 350 series with each of these 4 backs. I like the similar stylistic design of these backs, and I refer to this pattern as the "A-B-C-D connection". For more info check-out thread...... T206 DRUM's....and their "A-B-C-D connection" In 1911, when ALC was producing the T205 cards, they repeated the A-B-C-D connection for 32 subjects in this set. More info regarding this, check-out this theory presented on this forum in a November 2014 thread....... T205 DRUM vs HINDU...... T205 A=B=C=D pattern . . . The key factor in this A = B = C = D equation is the Black American Beauty back. NOTE that a T205 subject with a Green American Beauty back will NOT be found with a DRUM back. T205 A-B-C-D connection.......32 subjects James Austin John Bates Beals Becker George Bell William Bergen Russell Blackburne Albert Bridwell Mordecai Brown Harold Chase (border on shirt) Frank Corridon Thomas Downey Louis Evans George Graham (blue signature) Buck Herzog Richard Hoblitzell Miller Huggins Jack Knight A. Latham Thomas Leach John Lobert Briscoe Lord Patrick Moran Frederick Olmstead George Paskert Fred Payne Edward Phelps John Quinn Lewis Richie David Shean George Stone Zach Wheat Harry Wolter The above 5 subjects in bold letters have yet to be confirmed with the DRUM back. But, they already have been confirmed with the A - B - C backs. Therefore, I expect these 5 subjects will eventually be discovered with the DRUM back. . Hey guys, If perhaps you may have any one of these 5 missing DRUM cards....please by all means chime in here. Especially, if you have Huggins or Lobert. Furthermore, after completing my 209-card T205 set [including the Hoblitzell (no stats)]......I continued my T205 "hunt" by forming these A-B-C-D sub-sets. Here is an example of my favorite...... TED Z . Last edited by tedzan; 05-29-2020 at 11:19 AM. Reason: Corrected typo. |
#442
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Lake no ball Y
Ball Y Elberfield Y J Collins N H Smith N Camnitz arm side N Krause N Davidson N Ames hands above head N Chance yellow N Cobb red N Rucker N Doyle w bat Y Sheckard glove show Y McQuillan Y Devore Y Magee N Rucker N Milan Y Pelty vertical Y McGraw glove hip Y Merkle throwing Y Bergen catching Y Shannon N Manning pitching N Campell N O'Leary hands knees Y Wiltse pitching N Rudolph N Pfeffer Y Overall Y Needham N Stovall bat Y Sheckard N Ferguson N Ferguson N Stahl N Donlin N McIntyre N Street N Street N Dygert N Huggins Y Pfeffer N O'Leary knees N Lord N Perring Y Ford N Geyer Y Reulbach Y Ames N So like I said..I have 20 wst out of my 50 Tolstois...meh close enough for government work. How does Tolstoi compare to other brands as far as wst's, seem more common with Tolstoi. |
#443
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Hi Dpoolem3
Here's the break-down of your YES cards with respect to the series they were printed in. I was looking for a consistent series pattern to explain your Tolstoi wet ink transfers. And, there really doesn't appear to be a pattern. 350-only series ----------------- Huggins Milan Perring 350/460 series ----------------- Doyle w bat Y Elberfield Y Lake no ball Y McQuillan Y O'Leary hands knees Y Overall Y (yellow sky) ........ ? Pelty vertical Y Reulbach Y 460-only series ----------------- Ball Bergen catching Y Devore Y Geyer Y McGraw glove hip Y Merkle throwing Y Overall (blue sky) .............. ? Pfeffer Y Sheckard glove show Y Stovall bat Y By the way, which Overall card do you have listed ? ? TED Z . |
#444
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Quote:
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#445
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T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theorys, etc....comparable printing patterns in T205's
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
.. v ................................ 19" x 24" standard size sheet ...................................v .... Simulated sheet of the T206 "Exclusive 12" subjects in the 460-only series I refer to the Minor Leaguers as the Exclusive 12 of the T205 set. As is obvious, their front designs differ considerably from the Major League subjects in the T205 set. These cards were printed at the tail-end of the T205 production run in the Fall/Winter of 1911. This timeline is evident from the bio descriptions on the backs of these cards. And, they were printed with only two T-brand advertisements on their backs....either HASSAN or POLAR BEAR. Illustrated here is my concept of a printed sheet of 96 cards which fit on a 19" x 24" standard size cardboard sheet of that era. T205 Minor Leaguers (12 subjects) TED Z . |
#446
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Ted,
That T205 Minor League concept sheet is eye candy for sure man!
__________________
I'm always looking for t206's with purple numbers stamped on the back like the one in my avatar. The Great T206 Back Stamp Project: Click Here My Online Trading Site: Click Here Member of OBC (Old Baseball Cards), the longest running on-line collecting club www.oldbaseball.com My Humble Blog: Click Here |
#447
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T206 REFERENCE....Reflections, Theorys, etc....comparable printing patterns in T205's
Hi Andy
Love your avatar....brings back memories of the grand ole Ft. Washington Show days when we first met. If I recall correctly, on the front of the HINDU card is Doc Powers. Take care, TED Z . |
#448
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Good memory Ted. Wow. You're right about Powers. And I still think you gave me a heck of a deal on that Hindu.
AndyH
__________________
I'm always looking for t206's with purple numbers stamped on the back like the one in my avatar. The Great T206 Back Stamp Project: Click Here My Online Trading Site: Click Here Member of OBC (Old Baseball Cards), the longest running on-line collecting club www.oldbaseball.com My Humble Blog: Click Here |
#449
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Quote:
__________________
T206 gallery |
#450
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That is exactly the mis-cut Chance/Cobb I referred to in Post #398. Thanks Chris for posting it. Will we see you at the National in Cleveland ? TED Z . |
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