PWCC's 1936 Goudey World Wide Gum DiMaggio PSA 7

[steve B]

Originally Posted by swarmee

I would say if you're that worried about it, you should sell it before doing any work on it. And I would say you're paranoid. Because life expectancy of baseball cards is longer than humans.

I've seen and owned things that are made from similar stock to the WWG cards that were poorly cared for. Some are fine, some have degraded noticeably within about half my life time (So far)

If all that matters is the money you make now....Great. Do whatever you like. The next generation thanks you - Or not.

If you actually give a _ about the item as anything more than a source of profit, proper storage and occasional conservation with full disclosure are proper.

Why many of us worry about storage and holders but never about much else is always a puzzle.

Steve B

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Whodunit

I was the buyer that Brent sold the card to. He bought the card as an SGC 50. He doctored it. He sold it to me as a PSA 7 WITHOUT DISCLOSING MATERIAL FACTS that HE KNEW would have affected my decision. So, with that argument, tell me how Peter is wrong? I paid 75K for a card that I wouldn't have paid 5K for had the truth been DISCLOSED.

I understand, but you were personally involved in this case and your opinion is baised (doesnt mean you could be absolutely right)

Just saying that you agreeing with Peter doesnt support Peter's argument due to bias..

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Peter, as I mentioned in post 277 and 281, there are ways of removing toning without any chemicals, water or anything else even touching the card. In fact, some museums use this process. I think "fraud" is a matter of interpretation. If I buy a card that is a PSA 7ST because of a wax stain on the front surface, crack the card, clean the wax with nylon and then re-submit it to PSA, is that fraud? Not sure where you really draw the line?

All that said, I can understand a buyer wanting to know the card's history, but I really don't think it's fraud. Can you show me one case where a person has ever been convicted of removing a stain or toning or whatever from a card?

Right, its a slippery slope....if i sell a card i now got to research its history...

the card was sold as a PSA 7 card....ant the card is a PSA 7 card....thats far from a scam.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

I understand, but you were personally involved in this case and your opinion is baised (doesnt mean you could be absolutely right)

Just saying that you agreeing with Peter doesnt support Peter's argument due to bias..

What on earth are you talking about? What better proof of materiality than from the very guy who bought the card not knowing the information?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Right, its a slippery slope....if i sell a card i now got to research its history...

the card was sold as a PSA 7 card....ant the card is a PSA 7 card....thats far from a scam.

Noise and spin.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by steve B

If you know what the discoloration is from that information is readily available on several websites.

Steve B

I understand that Steve. I just don't think it should be available because it is used to alter cards for the sole purpose to deceive someone to make extra $. I could give detailed instructions on how to counterfeit cards also but choose not to. I am sure you also know how easy that is.

[PhillipAbbott79]

This whole chain of events casts a major shadow over the ever so holy bid retraction thread.

"My name is Betsy Huigens; Brent and I own PWCC Auctions. Our company has always considered the integrity of our auctions to be our number one priority. We take a proactive approach towards monitoring bidders and taken action when appropriate. The purpose of this post is to announce the next phase of policing. I’ve historically monitored and managed our comments on the message boards (like this one), so I know how important auction integrity is to the collecting community. It gives me great personal satisfaction to take the next step in ensuring our venue is the most trusted and honest marketplace in the world."

"As such, it is our strong belief that in due time, problematic behavior will become a thing of the past. We encourage other eBay sellers to take a similar stance and aid us in supporting the integrity of the eBay platform.Again, the integrity of our auctions is our number one priority. We ask that the collecting community on this board and others assist PWCC in identifying concerning bid behavior on any of our auctions. Please notify PWCC of any suspicious behavior by sending an email to bidmonitoring@pwccauctions.com. I can be reached at betsy@pwccauctions.com if you have any questions, comments, or suggestions. We thank everyone for their commitment to the hobby"

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Whodunit

Regardless of what you call it, as long as you pay for what you win, and it wasn't yours to begin with, that's all it is

I think in your scenerio the card was yours to begin with but was going to the highest bidder...i agree though, if you are going have to pay the 8%-14% on top of your bid to win back your own card, go for it.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

What on earth are you talking about? What better proof of materiality than from the very guy who bought the card not knowing the information?

right what on earth am i talking about. If there was a trial on a 1952 Mantle being doctored and reholdered, you think the judge would allow that guy (the poster that bought the dimaggio) on the jury? I think he would be considered biased. People have disagreed with you that had nothing to do with the actuall card that was bought or sold.

i just value the opinions more of people that werent actually involved about the transaction being a scam or not. As far as what facts occured, yes, I would want to know it from the people that actually were involved in the transaction.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

I think in your scenerio the card was yours to begin with but was going to the highest bidder...i agree though, if you are going have to pay the 8%-14% on top of your bid to win back your own card, go for it.

It wasn't his at that point...it was John Perez's.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

right what on earth am i talking about. If there was a trial on a 1952 Mantle being doctored and reholdered, you think the judge would allow that guy (the poster that bought the dimaggio) on the jury? I think he would be considered biased. People have disagreed with you that had nothing to do with the actuall card that was bought or sold.

i just value the opinions more of people that werent actually involved about the transaction being a scam or not. As far as what facts occured, yes, I would want to know it from the people that actually were involved in the transaction.

I cannot imagine a more valuable opinion on whether a non-disclosed fact is material than that of a guy like Cortney who is a major buyer of vintage cards. I don't know why you keep fighting the obvious, there was fraud here.

[Whodunit]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

I understand, but you were personally involved in this case and your opinion is baised (doesnt mean you could be absolutely right)

Just saying that you agreeing with Peter doesnt support Peter's argument due to bias..

That makes about as much sense as pissing in the wind. My response was in regards to not being told that the card was doctored. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that hell yes, my opinion is biased. I said that in a previous statement. I also said that had the information about the cards history BEEN DISCLOSED, I wouldn't have paid 5K for it. That is a material fact considering Brent knew for a fact that if he'd told me that the card was doctored I'd have had zero interest in it. Considering the nature of our past relationship, the fact that I was by far his biggest consignor for 5+ years, and how many times we talked about bad sheep in the hobby and what they do to cards to get them in certain holders, to say that withholding that particular tidbit of information was negligible is akin to saying that the Pope is Baptist.
'

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by PhillipAbbott79

This whole chain of events casts a major shadow over the ever so holy bid retraction thread.

"My name is Betsy Huigens; Brent and I own PWCC Auctions. Our company has always considered the integrity of our auctions to be our number one priority. We take a proactive approach towards monitoring bidders and taken action when appropriate. The purpose of this post is to announce the next phase of policing. I’ve historically monitored and managed our comments on the message boards (like this one), so I know how important auction integrity is to the collecting community. It gives me great personal satisfaction to take the next step in ensuring our venue is the most trusted and honest marketplace in the world."

"As such, it is our strong belief that in due time, problematic behavior will become a thing of the past. We encourage other eBay sellers to take a similar stance and aid us in supporting the integrity of the eBay platform.Again, the integrity of our auctions is our number one priority. We ask that the collecting community on this board and others assist PWCC in identifying concerning bid behavior on any of our auctions. Please notify PWCC of any suspicious behavior by sending an email to bidmonitoring@pwccauctions.com. I can be reached at betsy@pwccauctions.com if you have any questions, comments, or suggestions. We thank everyone for their commitment to the hobby"

I agree theres an added component here as the auction house owner was the one involved on this card when it got reholdered. Theres a bit of an ethical conflict there. Usually i would imagine when something like this happens to a card, its not being sold at an auction house where the owner of the auction was involved. This is an unusual situation.

[Leon]

Whether anything was disclosed or not how did it affect the Goldin Auction sale?
Did Courtney (hi Courtney) lose his money well before any alteration/cleaning was known? Wasn't it in an auction as a straight up 7 with 0 discussions of anything else?
IF that is the case did it have a material effect on that sale?... Damages?

Originally Posted by BeanTown

So, this makes sense why Brent didn't come on this thread to chime in when myself along with others asked him to, plus John (The consignor to PWCC) said he would. I see PWCC does full disclosures on other cards which I guess PWCC "Brent" is not vested in. Plus, Orlando said it best earlier which I agreed on earlier posts that the submitter of the card had to have some pull to get that kind of inflated grade with PSA. Even the second go around which I highly doubt the card was sent back to PSA, to be reconfirmed of the grade.

I feel bad for Courtney who for one, probably didn't do all the research he should have when buying a 50k plus card but I do understand having trust from the auction house or private sale you want to take them at their word and assume they are disclosing everything.

[VintageBen]

Wowsers!!!!

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Whodunit

That makes about as much sense as pissing in the wind. My response was in regards to not being told that the card was doctored. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that hell yes, my opinion is biased. I said that in a previous statement. I also said that had the information about the cards history BEEN DISCLOSED, I wouldn't have paid 5K for it. That is a material fact considering Brent knew for a fact that if he'd told me that the card was doctored I'd have had zero interest in it. Considering the nature of our past relationship, the fact that I was by far his biggest consignor for 5+ years, and how many times we talked about bad sheep in the hobby and what they do to cards to get them in certain holders, to say that withholding that particular tidbit of information was negligible is akin to saying that the Pope is Baptist.
'

If you look at what i said that you quoted i did say 'you could be absolutely right' I just said that you are biased in the situation. Maybe if you made 50k profit on the card you wouldnt be complaining and you are upset because of the bad outcome. Maybe you are just trying to clean up the hobby. Maybe something else. There could be a lot of reasons, i just said that someone in your position would of course complain there was fraud given what transpired.

Peter disagrees with me, but there are other posters here that disagree with Peter. Some say that theres a way to remove substances on a card without even touching the card for instance. Again, i not saying it was not wrong and not saying someone can be pursued for civil damages. However the card is in a PSA 7 holder and was sold as a PSA 7, thats not a Scam in my opinion. (assuming PSA wasnt paid off etc)

Im sure the seller of the card will say this wasnt a scam as well, but i would say he is biased as well.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Leon

Whether anything was disclosed or not how did it affect the Goldin Auction sale?
Did Courtney (hi Courtney) lose his money well before any alteration/cleaning was known? Wasn't it in an auction as a straight up 7 with 0 discussions of anything else?
IF that is the case did it have a material effect on that sale?... Damages?

Someone would have to sell the card with all of that being disclosed to find out for sure.
Im sure it would still go for far above what it did in the SGC holder even with all of this knowledge. Plus rookie cards keep climbing, if its sold 4 years from now who knows..

[Whodunit]

There again, lets not forget why I signed up for this forum today and why I made a few connections with a few people before I started posting. I was informed that what I said would likely be taken with a grain of salt b/c I never post and have no "forum credibility"........so, thanks for that tidbit, Evan Mathis. I signed up for the sole reason of setting the record straight on Brent Huigens, PWCC and the way that they do business.....the lies they tell.........and, in this case, the lies that they fail to mention (pun intended). There was a lot of speculation going on as to what actually transpired with this card from the time it left REA until it just sold through him (again). I'm strictly here to set the record straight, let the community know how Brent does business.

I could really care less about losing the 30K that I lost when I sold the card in Goldin's auction. As part of a portfolio, 30K is negligible in the long run. Anyone with a large collection will tell you that. It's one of the things that I preach. What I do care about is making sure that others don't get burned like I did. Brent earned my trust, but like any rabid dog, when you turn your back, you're gonna get bit. He's a snake in the grass and all of what you guys suggest about him and his company is legitimate and, for the most part, accurate.

Has anyone noticed that Brent is still MIA after being called out several times? All those years of him monitoring this board and telling me not to bother with responding b/c "(he'll) handle it". Yet, now he's...poof....gone. Must be on another monthly vacation somewhere where there's no internet or phone service (like HI. LMAO). I'm guessing his attorneys are telling him to STFU and pray this goes away. Guess what Brent Huigens, this aint goin' away buddy!!!! I know you're reading this, I've already caught wind of some of the remarks that have been made about me TODAY. ;-)

[jfkheat]

Did PWCC recently block all of your eBay ids from bidding on their auctions?
James

[FirstYearCards]

No dog in this fight, but Cortney you say in post #362 "Considering the nature of our past relationship, the fact that I was by far his biggest consignor for 5+ years, then in post #368 you say "He's a snake in the grass and all of what you guys suggest about him and his company is legitimate and, for the most part, accurate.

Are you saying up until this incident you were clueless as to who you were dealing with?
Could we see these cards you've consigned the last five years to be sure we also weren't burned?

[ergoism]

Originally Posted by Whodunit

There again, lets not forget why I signed up for this forum today and why I made a few connections with a few people before I started posting. I was informed that what I said would likely be taken with a grain of salt b/c I never post and have no "forum credibility"........so, thanks for that tidbit, Evan Mathis.

I wasn't going to get involved but I see my name so I'll play. Cortney, you have zero credibility as a human being. When we started doing deals years ago, you always preached about how you were a man of your word. Fast forward to now and you are banned from PWCC, Memory Lane, and Heritage. Those are just the ones I know. I also know I fronted $85,000 to pay for a card for you and when it came time to pay you told me to sell the card because the doctor told you that you had days to live. Then a couple weeks later when a similar card brought a huge number at auction, you wanted to act like nothing happened and asked for the card. I told you it sold and you threw one of your trademarked temper tantrums like you do on Facebook when your wife doesn't have a meal ready for you when you get home from working for your daddy. When we were texting about your idea to jump on the forums, I was saying it was a bad idea because you are just bad for the hobby in every way. Your running up auctions, protect bidding, shill bidding, and your overall persona is just not needed. You come here and "expose" Brent because you are mad he banned you. You're mad he couldn't put up with you bidding on his auctions with all 4 of your accounts. Quit acting like anything would have been different if you knew about the card's history. You still would have bought it then over committed yourself to something else and had to consign it and everything you'd recently bought just to fund your terrible impulses. Hence you being "Brent's biggest consignor." I've never seen you ask for the provenance of any of the cards you bought. A lot of cards in this hobby are cleaned up or worked on in some way. Examine the cards you buy, buy what you like. You're acting like someone who sees a spill in a grocery store and runs over to it and fakes a fall. Get up, victim.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I would not presume to comment on any disagreements between Evan and Cortney, but I can say that everything Cortney has said about the history of this particular card is consistent with what I previously learned from people other than Cortney, whose involvement was news to me today.

[vintagetoppsguy]

What's the record for most number of posts in a thread? And the record for most page views? I think this one has potential to shatter those records.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

What's the record for most number of posts in a thread? And the record for most page views? I think this one has potential to shatter those records.

That damn Burkett's monster thread. No chance.

[Beastmode]

I'm waiting for a pop-up ad from PWCC on this thread; the eyeballs must be off the charts. Quick Leon, dynamic pricing...

Courtney, not to diminish your narrative on this thread because it does appear to have merit, but 50 retractions; give me a fXcking break. And you've paid for all your winnings?? yeah right

I believe the forum will eventually sort this out, so I will stay tuned. I do apprecaite the fact you have the balls to come on here and tell your story and it appears to have legs. I'd like to hear the other half.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by ergoism

I wasn't going to get involved but I see my name so I'll play. Cortney, you have zero credibility as a human being. When we started doing deals years ago, you always preached about how you were a man of your word. Fast forward to now and you are banned from PWCC, Memory Lane, and Heritage. Those are just the ones I know. I also know I fronted $85,000 to pay for a card for you and when it came time to pay you told me to sell the card because the doctor told you that you had days to live. Th\

two things i learned from this

1. that is that this comment doesnt negate anything i said about cortney being biased in terms of if the deal was scam or not

2. I wish i knew someone that would front me $85,000 on a card. I swim in different waters.

[Whodunit]

Evan, you talk just to hear yourself think dont you? I have zero credibility? Within what group? Now, spouting off "facts", all of which are in your head? If I have zero credibiliry and dont do what i say, why do I have boxes from you show up at my house prior to pmt? Is it bc you know you're going to get paid? You just made my point too, by the way. So, thanks for that darlin'. Does it have anything to do with you telling me for the ladt 3 weeks to "leave it alone". Go get Brent now. Lets let the rubber meet the raod. ;-)

[Whodunit]

Might wanna read the posts before you embark on an entitled rant like the one you just posted. Kinda makes an ass out of ones self.......

[ergoism]

Can you tell me what "facts" are in my head, darlin'?

[ergoism]

Originally Posted by Whodunit

Might wanna read the posts before you embark on an entitled rant like the one you just posted. Kinda makes an ass out of ones self.......

Yeah, I actually haven't read much. I just saw your name and got triggered.

[Whodunit]

Well, to start, all of them except JP being pissed bc I was in a wreck and Tommy Boys. If you wanna rattle on about "daddys boys" include the whole family darlin. You like to rattle #s so that you seem more educated on subjects......concussion protocol? Can anyone other than Evan tell me a time I made a deal and didnt go through? Im not gonna mention names bc Ive got every AH on the planet begging me not to bring in their companies into this s$#* storm, but anyone other than Evan? LMFAO.

[Whodunit]

Must have really mashed a button Evan. 😂😂

[ergoism]

Originally Posted by Whodunit

Well, to start, all of them except JP being pissed bc I was in a wreck and Tommy Boys. If you wanna rattle on about "daddys boys" include the whole family darlin. You like to rattle #s so that you seem more educated on subjects......concussion protocol? Can anyone other than Evan tell me a time I made a deal and didnt go through? Im not gonna mention names bc Ive got every AH on the planet begging me not to bring in their companies into this s$#* storm, but anyone other than Evan? LMFAO.

Are you even referencing anything I said? I already regret interacting with you. I'm gong to read the rest of the stuff I missed to catch up. As you were, sweetheart.

[Whodunit]

Evan, could it be that you and "tonya" are still mad that yall didnt get the 51 mays and mantle PSA 8s or the 68 ryan 9 bc yall were too busy trying to beat down prices while Pulice was writing checks?

[Leon]

Hi Evan
Hope all is well for you. Hope to say hi in Chitown if you make it this year? Thanks for coming on the forum and chiming in....best....LL

Originally Posted by ergoism

I wasn't going to get involved but I see my name so I'll play. Cortney, you have zero credibility as a human being. When we started doing deals years ago, you always preached about how you were a man of your word. Fast forward to now and you are banned from PWCC, Memory Lane, and Heritage. Those are just the ones I know. I also know I fronted $85,000 to pay for a card for you and when it came time to pay you told me to sell the card because the doctor told you that you had days to live. Then a couple weeks later when a similar card brought a huge number at auction, you wanted to act like nothing happened and asked for the card. I told you it sold and you threw one of your trademarked temper tantrums like you do on Facebook when your wife doesn't have a meal ready for you when you get home from working for your daddy. When we were texting about your idea to jump on the forums, I was saying it was a bad idea because you are just bad for the hobby in every way. Your running up auctions, protect bidding, shill bidding, and your overall persona is just not needed. You come here and "expose" Brent because you are mad he banned you. You're mad he couldn't put up with you bidding on his auctions with all 4 of your accounts. Quit acting like anything would have been different if you knew about the card's history. You still would have bought it then over committed yourself to something else and had to consign it and everything you'd recently bought just to fund your terrible impulses. Hence you being "Brent's biggest consignor." I've never seen you ask for the provenance of any of the cards you bought. A lot of cards in this hobby are cleaned up or worked on in some way. Examine the cards you buy, buy what you like. You're acting like someone who sees a spill in a grocery store and runs over to it and fakes a fall. Get up, victim.

[ergoism]

Leon, I'll be there every day like a kid in a candy store.

[BeanTown]

I do not have a pony in the race here. Question for Cortney.... When you submitted the card to Goldin, did you know the card was worked on and put in a New PSA holder as a 7 from an SGC 4 holder?

I think it's obvious that the Goldin winner (John) had no idea it was worked on and regraded. As he must have learned about it only after it was listed with PWCC on Ebay.

Did Goldin know about the card's history when they auctioned it off? What's even more amazing is why didn't someone catch it in the Goldin auction????? It took an Ebay auction to figure it out. Don't people use the VCP to look at high end cards and the POP before making an investment

[Whodunit]

No, I found out that it was doctored 3 days into Brents auction (1yr+ after I bought it and 3 months afyer I sold it). I took my losses when I auctioned it and moved on....never mentioned my loss to anyone. Then I was alerted to this new revelation. I was alerted to this thread by a mutual hobby enthusiast. At that point, Id obviously already sold it but was considering buying it back bc it was 30k under what Id initially paid. If you look at when i quit bidding on Brents auction (i revealed my ebay id letters earlier), and when this thread started, i quit bidding on it as soon as i found out that the card brent sold me was in fact the same card that he bought in REA.

Goldin didnt know anything about the history just like I didnt. The only one involved in this who onew the true story was Brent.....and he's now sold it 2x under false pretenses.

[rats60]

He said he found out because of this thread.

Originally Posted by Whodunit

Yes, I consigned it to Goldin. As for my disclosure, no, the facts surrounding this card weren't disclosed in Goldin's Auction. The details of this holders history didn't come out until Brent listed the card for sale in this auction. I had no clue that it'd been doctored when I bought it, or never in a million years would have bought it and had no idea when I sold it. I was alerted to this thread by someone who thought I might be interested in what was going on. I sold this card via Ken along with a '55 Clemente PSA 9 and some other very big cards.

[Rookiemonster]

Sooooooo your saying colonel mustard is innocent? I don't believe it !

Why does it matter who doctored the card I'm sure there are many that can do it and maybe even more.

[BeanTown]

Thanks for restating Cortney as I missed your earlier post as I was speed reading the thread. Glad to see both Cortney and Evan post on the board as we knew there were many other private collectors/investors who drop six figures or more into the card market each year.

Glad to hear Goldin didn't know about the clean up job as I would hope that any credible auction house would disclose all information about the item they were auctioning off.

It wouldn't surprise me whoever won the PWCC card will make it disappear. Looks like the PWCC consignor John gets his investment (flipper) money back plus a grand and that's the end of the 1936 WW Joe DiMaggio card.

After reading this thread and Brent's involvement and knowledge of this card (if true), he probably should say something on here and I'm sure he is hoping this card disappears and gets forgotten about.

[Whodunit]

Making the card disappear isnt necessary, or even warranted, imo. Getting it into the proper holder (A) seems more appropriate. Evan likes to say Id have bought the card regardless of whether it had been altered or not. What Evan failed to mention is I dont own ANY other holder than PSA and none other than graded cards. I dont buy altered, raw or anything in the neighborhood.....unless, im otherwise misled (lied to) and find out the hard way that it was manipulated and slipped past PSA. I fault PSA zero in this case.....I fault a thief and a liar 100%. There again, only Brent and I can dispute this claim. Where is he these days? Im not hearing a claim from the cats mouth.

[ullmandds]

[QUOTE=Beastmode;1631737]I'm waiting for a pop-up ad from PWCC on this thread; the eyeballs must be off the charts. Quick Leon, dynamic pricing...

Now thats funny!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by BeanTown

Thanks for restating Cortney as I missed your earlier post as I was speed reading the thread. Glad to see both Cortney and Evan post on the board as we knew there were many other private collectors/investors who drop six figures or more into the card market each year.

Glad to hear Goldin didn't know about the clean up job as I would hope that any credible auction house would disclose all information about the item they were auctioning off.

It wouldn't surprise me whoever won the PWCC card will make it disappear. Looks like the PWCC consignor John gets his investment (flipper) money back plus a grand and that's the end of the 1936 WW Joe DiMaggio card.

After reading this thread and Brent's involvement and knowledge of this card (if true), he probably should say something on here and I'm sure he is hoping this card disappears and gets forgotten about.

What can he say, he isn't going to deny the facts, so his only choice is to go the Jake route and say it's a PSA 7 and that's all that matters, and/or that the hobby accepts this sort of restoration and therefore it's not material.

[Whodunit]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

What can he say, he isn't going to deny the facts, so his only choice is to go the Jake route and say it's a PSA 7 and that's all that matters, and/or that the hobby accepts this sort of restoration and therefore it's not material.

If PSA allows this type of alteration/manipulation and grade anyway, Ill concede defeat. But, to my knowledge, that isnt the case. If I were buying a holder, Id do the same, but I buy cards. And I bought one hell of an altered 4. Lmao. And it wasnt even a PSA 4, it was SGC; and id rather own wrinkled, raw than SGC.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Whodunit

If PSA allows this type of alteration/manipulation and grade anyway, Ill concede defeat. But, to my knowledge, that isnt the case. If I were buying a holder, Id do the same, but I buy cards. And I bought one hell of an altered 4. Lmao. And it wasnt even a PSA 4, it was SGC; and id rather own wrinkled, raw than SGC.

You had me till the last sentence. PSA might sell for more but SGC is a way better company. They are way more consistent in their product and are not constantly being accused of favoritism. The only thing you hear from the PSA sheeple is their slab sells for more because their product is garbage IMHO.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Whodunit

And it wasnt even a PSA 4, it was SGC; and id rather own wrinkled, raw than SGC.

If you truly believe this ridiculous comment...then you are a moron!

[Whodunit]

Sorry for that comment. Slipped off the tongue. It's just my personal preferences. I admit and apologize for the negative sgc comment. I am 110% dedicated to the consistent value of PSA, but realize that sgc does have their niches and value as well. My apologies. My issues with SGC and BVG are due to their lack of q's. No excuse though for my bad behavior. :-(

[Stonepony]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

If you truly believe this ridiculous comment...then you are a moron!

In keeping consistent with this thread, there's probably a fuc**ed up story behind that comment

[Beastmode]

Originally Posted by Whodunit

Making the card disappear isnt necessary, or even warranted, imo. Getting it into the proper holder (A) seems more appropriate. Evan likes to say Id have bought the card regardless of whether it had been altered or not. What Evan failed to mention is I dont own ANY other holder than PSA and none other than graded cards. I dont buy altered, raw or anything in the neighborhood.....unless, im otherwise misled (lied to) and find out the hard way that it was manipulated and slipped past PSA. I fault PSA zero in this case.....I fault a thief and a liar 100%. There again, only Brent and I can dispute this claim. Where is he these days? Im not hearing a claim from the cats mouth.

Courtney, for the record, PSA reviews PHYSICAL alternations, not chemical. Card's been trimmed, they note it; Card has been restored via chemical/water alteration, they don't give a shit.

Now it's been "disclosed" to you, and every vintage buyer reading this thread, when you buy/shill your next $100K card in a PSA Holder, it's possible that card has been chemically altered.

I'm not trying to bust your balls, but for goodness sakes, don't rely on the Auction House to give you that information. Most of them don't even disclose the bidders for dang sake.