T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?

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Posted By: Brian Weisner

Hi Ted,
This is post number 300 on this thread, give us a few more days and we'll catch Barry.....

I will post some more info on the "ink theory" a little later, and explain why I believe the EPDG evidence still suggest an earlier print date than the Old Mills. Talk to you soon.


Happy 4th of July. Be well Brian

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Posted By: brian p

Being way too busy to try and catch up with this 300 post thread, I will just respond to the original post and hope someone still cares. Of the over 300 T206 cards I own, I have 4 EPDG backed cards:

Covaleskie--Philadelphia
Turner-Cleveland
Sharpe--Newark
Schlafy--Newark

By the way, I collected my T206 purposely trying to avoid the less common backs, as I was more interested in the fronts, and the rarer backs meant extra expenditure, but still ended up with four.

......

Now that I have had a chance to 'scan' through some of the other posts, maybe I will get back with what backs I have for those 8 cards being tracked.

Brian

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

BRIAN P.

Yes we are still interested in your inputs on your T206 backs. You did better
than most with your EPDG backs.....4 out of 300 = 1.33 %....not bad.

Here are the cards we are still most interested in......

Ames (hands at chest)

Dahlen (Boston)

Doyle (throwing)

Durham

Ewing

Lindaman

Lundgren (Cubs)

Schulte (front - Cubs)


Thanks, Ted Z

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Posted By: Brian Weisner

Hi Ted,
Going to Pinehurst in the AM. Talk to you on Sunday night. Be well Brian

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Posted By: barry arnold

Ted Z.

many thanks for keeping track of so much data---i've been vacationing a wee bit and finally back
at the university.

i notice ole Brian W. is going out of town again---is he still doing Fuller Brush.

i'm eager to see what happens with ames,ewing, and lindaman

all the best,

barry

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Posted By: brian p

Of the eight cards Ted & Co. are interested in, I have six:

Ames-hands at chest Piedmont 150
Dahlen-Boston Sweet Caporal 150
Durham Piedmont 150
Doyle Piedmont 150
Ewing Piedmont 150
Schulte-Cubs on uniform Piedmont 150


Brian

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Updated 7/7/06

Those of us who like to get down to the "nitty-gritty" of the T206 Monster really
appreciate all this data from at least 80 Forum posters and eight Forum "readers",
all of whom have not only contributed their inputs, but also their time in the process.

Ten cards....M. Brown (Cubs), Geo Brown (Chi), Burch (bat), Donlin (hands-knees),
Evers (blue sky), Pattee, Pelty (horiz), Powers, Reulbach (Cubs) and Honus Wagner
are recognized as being in the 150-only Series; and therefore, are much tougher T206
cards than most others.

In this Thread we have considered several more T206's to be in this category. After
sampling 500+ cards in this survey, we have reduced the potential candidates down
to the following 3 cards....Ames (hands/chest)....Ewing....Lindaman.

NOTE....I've added to the list Durham, simply because I just acquired my 1st P350 card
of him. Durham is one tough card, and all 22 cards I have seen of him have been 150's.

I am curious what backs are on your Durham cards ?



PLAYER.................350........HINDU.......EPDG ........150

Ames (Hds/chest).....0............2..............0.......... ...33

Doyle (throw)...........1............3..............0... ..........28

Durham...................2............0........... ...0..............12

Ewing.....................0.............2......... .....3.............26

Jones (St Louis).......1.............5..............2....... ......30

Lindaman................0............10........... ...6.............38

Jordan (port)...........3.............0..............0... ...........11

Spencer..................1.............2.......... ....1..............13

Schulte (Cubs).........1.............5..............0..... .........47

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Scot Reader

I am expanding my "Piedmont-only" set to include all the cards we have surveyed in this Thread
that we have initially considered as "new" possible 150-only cards; but, have eventually appeared
also as P350 (exclusively).....Durham, Tom Jones, Lundgren, Schulte, etc.

I will scan thru this Thread and compile a list of these particular cards; however, I would feel more
confident if I could derive this list from your data and analysis. Is it possible that you could furnish
me such a list. This Durham card that I just acquired prompted me to expand my set further, as this
card recalled that your data revealed one P350 Durham from 26 samples. I found this really amazing
as it closely coincided with my 22 (+ this P350) samples of Durham in 25 years of looking at T206's.

Thanks much for whatever info you can provide me.....Ted Z

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Posted By: Tom Boblitt

P150.......

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Posted By: Scot Reader

Hi Ted,
I just sent you my survey data; please check your email. As far as the seven potential 150-onlys from my data are concerned [Ames (Hands at Chest), Doyle (Throwing), Ewing, Jones (St. Louis), Lindaman, Lundgren (Chicago), Schulte (Front View)], I have only "scratched" Jones (St. Louis) and Lundgren (Chicago) conclusively. I know others on this thread have spoken of Doyle (Throwing) and Schulte (Front View) with a Piedmont 350 back, but no scans have been forthcoming on those so far. I don't mean to attack anyone's credibility but memories fade with time and mistakes are possible.
Scot

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Posted By: Nathan

If you guys are still keeping track - I have a Luther Dummy Taylor EPDG back. It's still the only one graded by SGC.

Nathan

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Posted By: barry arnold

many thanks, nathan

it would help to know the total number of your 206's so we can get some idea
of the ratio of epdg's to the total.

all the best,

barry

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

OK.....Guys and Gals.....Now that Leon has declared that we should get back "ON-TOPIC",
let's continue more "meaningful" Vintage Threads that add to our knowledge of this hobby.
Rather, than ones that just stir up divisive controversy among us.

THANK YOU....LEON....for finally locking that thread.....I hope you threw away the key.

T-Rex Ted

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Updated 7/17/06....a few more inputs from "readers" are added here.

It appears as if we have "mined" all the available inputs from members,
so perhaps, this is the final tally to be posted. It was a great run......
a very big....Thanks....for all who have contributed to this survey.

PLAYER.................350........HINDU.......EPDG ..........150

Ames (Hds/chest).....0............2..............0.......... ...34

Doyle (throw)...........1............3..............0... ..........29

Durham...................2............0........... ...0..............14

Ewing.....................0.............2......... .....3.............28

Jones (St Louis).......1.............5..............2....... ......31

Lindaman................0............10........... ...7.............39

Jordan (port)...........3.............0..............0... ...........11

Spencer..................1.............2.......... ....1..............14

Schulte (Cubs).........1.............5..............0..... .........51

[Archive]

Posted By: E. Angyal

Did you get my e-mail spreadsheet?

Eric

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

A powerful storm came thru the other night and our email system is down.

I will certainly check-out your spread-sheet when service returns.

Thanx, Ted Z

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

OK guys....Let's get "Meaningful"....instead of "Physical" (Olivia Newt John).

I came across a Burch (batting) T206 with a brown HINDU back. There aren't too
many of these 150-only cards with HINDU backs....in fact they are "scarcer than
hen's teeth".
Here again is the list of the 9 cards in the set that are 150-only, which can pos-
sibly be found with HINDU backs....

150-only card................HINDU

Geo.Brown (Chicago).........1

M.Brown (Cubs)................1

Burch (batting).................1

Donlin (fldg).....................2

Evers (blue sky)................1

Pattee.............................0

Pelty (horiz).....................1

Powers............................1

Reulbach (Cubs)................2



Check your cards again and let's have your inputs....but, I do not expect too many
....as I said they are very scarce.

T-Rex Ted

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Posted By: barry arnold

Interesting idea, TRex.

Glad to see the research going again!

My Reulbach is a Hindu.

all the best,

barry

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Posted By: Brian Weisner

Hi Ted,
I have seen all 9 cards with Hindu backs and I have the following 7 :
G. Brown
M. Brown Cubs
Donlin
Evers Blue Sky
Powers
Pelty
Reulbach


I should have all 9, but got out Sniped on a nice VG/ex Patee and a sharp PSA 4 of Burch.


Be well Brian

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Thanks Barry and Brian for your inputs.

Brian....I knew you would have most of them.

Barry....You will be interested in knowing that a possible EPDG back exists
with one of these cards; and, I am trying to track it down. This will be very
unusual.

Ted

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Posted By: barry arnold

eager to see the EPDG, Ted.
many thanks for all the efforts.

Come on t206 Scholars, let's see the Hindus for these cards!!

Best,

Barry

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Posted By: Drew

I have Donlin(fielding) with a Hindu back.


Drew

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Posted By: Jim Rivera

I own 4 with Hindu
G. Browm
M. Brown
Burch
Powers

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

150-only cards with HINDU backs

Thanks Drew and Jim for your inputs, they are duly noted here.

I came across a Burch (batting) T206 with a brown HINDU back. There aren't too
many of these 150-only cards with HINDU backs....in fact they are "scarcer than
hen's teeth".
Here again is the list of the 9 cards in the set that are 150-only, which can pos-
sibly be found with HINDU backs....

150-only card................HINDU

Geo.Brown (Chicago).........2

M.Brown (Cubs)................2

Burch (batting).................2

Donlin (fldg).....................2

Evers (blue sky)................1

Pattee.............................0

Pelty (horiz).....................1

Powers............................2

Reulbach (Cubs)................2



Check your cards again and let's have your inputs....but, I do not expect too many
....as I said they are very scarce.

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Posted By: Mike (18colt)

I only have one 150-only with a Hindu back -- Donlin fielding.

Mike (18colt)

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Posted By: NickM

My small (less than a dozen) collection of T-206's has 1 EPDG back - Miller. Everything else is a Piedmont or Sweet Caporal common back.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

UPDATED 7/27/06

I'm leaving for Cooperstown and will be back Aug 1st.....so, don't stop providing
your inputs on this subject. It has come to my attention that there are also very
rare, but nevertheless, possible EPDG backs in this group of cards.

Check-out your T206's for HINDU or EPDG backs on these 9 cards.

I came across a Burch (batting) T206 with a brown HINDU back. There aren't too
many of these 150-only cards with HINDU backs....in fact they are "scarcer than
hen's teeth".
Here again is the list of the 9 cards in the set that are 150-only, which can pos-
sibly be found with HINDU backs.....and perhaps an EPDG.

150-only card................HINDU........EPDG

Geo.Brown (Chicago).........2

M.Brown (Cubs-Throw)......2

Burch (batting).................2

Donlin (fldg).....................3

Evers (blue sky)................1

Pattee.............................0

Pelty (horiz).....................1

Powers............................2

Reulbach (Cubs)................2



Have fun at the National, guys.

T-Rex Ted

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Posted By: Joe D.

okay... since this post now has over 300 replies --- I don't want to be left out.
My results won't really help the scientific survey - because I used to exclusively buy Polar Bears....

but I have only owned one EPDG.

Jennings Portrait (still have it)

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Posted By: Bill K

Ted, i'm not sure if the Brown you are looking for is the Portrait variation or not. Let me know if this helps!


Bill

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Bill K.

The M. Brown card we are interested in is his Throwing pose with Cubs on his shirt.

Sorry, if I was not clear on this.

And, thanks for your input.

Ted Z

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Posted By: Gary Nuchereno

I have one EPDG from my set(No big three)(yet) It is Groom.
I concur with the listing of cards that are found on 150 only
Was there any more info you are looking for to help in your
research. At one time I had two sets of T206 and as I sold off the 2nd set years ago I also sold many of the tougher and rarer backs as I was content to just have the set and I was
using the money for other purchases.

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

This has become a thread much beyond its original topic...

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Posted By: barry arnold

Point well taken , Frank.

I prefer to see the various discussions coming under a general research rubric dealing with difficult T206 backs. I think that the various topics
have ,minimally, an interstitial connection (more in the medical sense than
in the journalistic sense), whether we're dealing with EPDG,Hindu,Piedmont
150 only, the 150-350 progression,etc.
Even the Ritchey discussion,though ostensibly an excursus, did much to
illuminate the 150-350 progression issue.
I guess, for me, the bottom line has been a profound appreciation for the wealth of Backs research and
the exceptional collegiality.

Now, hurry back from Cooperstown, TRex and update the data page.

all the best,

Barry

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Updated 8/1/06

150-only card................HINDU........EPDG

Geo.Brown (Chicago).........2

M.Brown (Cubs-Throw)......2

Burch (batting).................2

Donlin (fldg).....................3

Evers (blue sky)................1

Pattee.............................1

Pelty (horiz).....................1

Powers............................3

Reulbach (Cubs)................2

[Archive]

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Frank W.

Yes, it has.....but that has been a good thing. This Thread started digressing (or
better yet, expanding) to other backs very early when I first responded with my
Carl Lundgren (Cubs) with an EPDG back.

That very input was the spark which ignited a "nuclear fission" of responses to this
Thread. And, given the nature of the T206 set with all it's front/back permutations,
I am not in the least surprised that Barry's original topic has grown to this level.

Perhaps, each subset of topics should have been the subjects of new Threads. In
any event, here we are and I think Barry and I should consider posting a new thread
that summarizes all the noteworthy facts that have resulted in this "monster" thread.

T-Rex Ted

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Posted By: barry arnold

great idea, TRex.
but first, any luck finding the epdg you mentioned on the July 25th entry.

it sounds like quite a find!!!

best,

Barry

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Posted By: Scot Reader

Gents,

There is a nice Lindaman Piedmont 350 on ebay right now.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1911-T206-VIVE-LINDAMAN-PSA-VG-EX-4_W0QQitemZ230014107136QQihZ013QQcategoryZ31718QQs sPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Scratch him from the potential 150-onlys.

That leaves just Ames (HAC), Doyle (Throwing), Ewing and Schulte (Front View) in my book.

Scot

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Posted By: Brian Weisner

Hi Scot,
You beat me to Lindy..... Guess we can't bid though, Ted will need this for his set. Be well Brian

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Great going Scot....and Brian, you're "darn tootin right"....my bid is in already.

Ebay is amazing.....sooner or later, even the "toughies" will show up.

Ted Z

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Posted By: barry arnold

great eye!

or eyes, i should say.

i'm rootin' for you, TRex

barry

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Brian W.

Here goes another digression.......have you ever noticed the difference in the
sky/clouds effect on McQuillan (throwing) cards as a function of 150 vs 350 ?

My P150 has a light blue sky with just a subtle hint of clouds. Now check out
the sky/cloud effect on this SC350 one on ebay.....

http://cgi.ebay.com/1911-T206-GEORGE-MCQUILLAN-BALL-IN-HAND-PSA-VG-EX-4_W0QQitemZ230014104098QQihZ013QQcategoryZ31718QQs sPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

It does remind us of the Ritchey phenomena.

T-Rex Ted

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Posted By: barry arnold

hi trex

can't believe we two dinosaurs are still up doing the research!

i just checked my Mcquillan (ball in hand) Piedmont 350 and the clouds
are clearly delineated and vibrantly white---like the one you suggest looking
at on ebay.
it's very reminiscent of the ritchey discussion---
sure continues to clarify the 150-350 progression issue.
whatcha think, brian?

going to bed. but will be back doing the research in the morning!

best,
barry

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Posted By: Brian Weisner

Hi Ted, and Barry,
Yes, I have checked the clouds on the McQuillian card, but upon further observation, I didn't see as big of a difference from series to series. There are other cards with differences too, but I've got to goo to work. later Brian

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Barry.....Brian.....Scot

Given enough time, we will we see Piedmont 350 backs for Ames, Doyle and Ewing ?

It's been 2 full months and 600+ inputs (which in effect reflect many 1000's of T206's
in members' collections) and these three cards are still hanging in there as possible
"150-only" candidates.

Barry

Also....gone un-noticed, your Thread has now exceeded the "infamous" Barry Bonds'
one.
And amazingly, this was achieved without any of the usual "war-ring factions" bet-
ween members....that escalate other Threads to this level of responses.

It's a credit to all the members of this Forum that participated in this exercise.

T-Rex TED

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Posted By: barry arnold

Trex

many thanks for the highly astute and kind words.

i say let's keep researching 'til we find the answer re: ames,doyle, and ewing!!!

the recent Lindaman find demands it!

all the best,

barry

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Posted By: Scot Reader

Ted,
Ewing is the one I'm most holding out hope for as a 150-only. There was an earlier poster who thought he recalled having Doyle (Throwing) in 350 and I have a faint recollection (though could be my memory tricking me) of having seen Ames (HAC) in 350 a few years back. Still, I'm not giving up on any of these three--or Schulte (Front View)--absent hard proof of existence with 350. To me that means a scan. Another interesting issue is how many 150/350 subjects exist with Piedmont 350 and no other 350 back. I suspect this is true of many. Care to start a new 400-post thread?
Scot

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

I have a G, Brown with a Hindu back.

The Ewing is interesting in the fact that there are EPDG backs but appear to have no other backs in the 350s. Did we do a tracking of the Ewing card? What was the latest count?

Lee

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Posted By: Scot Reader (ebay: sreader3)

Lee,

From Ted's July 18 post:

PLAYER.................350........HINDU.......EPDG ..........150

Ewing....................0............2..........3 ...........28

Scot

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Speaking about our "little ole buddy"....Wildfire Schulte

You have to check this out.....a PSA Schulte (Cubs) has a BIN of $2000. Where do
these crazy prices end ? There is no limit. Now let us see if someone will buy or bid
on this card ? Incidently, it is incorrectly identified with a Piedmont back.

Lee and Scot

YES.....the Ewing card appears to defy "the rule of thumb"....that EPDG cards must
also have been issued in the 350 series. But, have we definitely proven this "law" ?

http://cgi.ebay.com/1909-1911-T206-WILDFIRE-SCHULTE-PSA-6-TOUGH-FRONT_W0QQitemZ330014051127QQihZ014QQcategoryZ3171 8QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

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Posted By: Brian Weisner

Hi Ted,
Quit picking on my listing.... Even though you are right I did list the back as Piedmont instead of Sweet Cap. That's what happens when you get in a hurry. Besides, try finding this card in high grade, there are only 6 cards graded higher and I sold a 6 several months ago for 1100.00.
I really don't want to sell the card, but needed to list a few items on dump day, so I threw Schulte in the bunch.

Be well Brian

PS Thanks for helping me fix my listing error, but I'm hurt that you didn't know my EBAY Id after over 350 post on this thread......