1982 Topps Blackless

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by bswhiten

Michael, I have a Bench but it isn’t for sale. Definitely a tough C sheet one.

Anyone know who won the Murphy the other day? Did you get it Christian? I was an underbidder. Wanted a second one signed

Nice final price for a semi-star in my mind. Great to see the interest is still going strong in blackless.

[ALR-bishop]

Originally Posted by justind

nice final price for a semi-star in my mind. Great to see the interest is still going strong in blackless.

+ 1

[Blackless Collector]

Originally Posted by JustinD

Nice final price for a semi-star in my mind. Great to see the interest is still going strong in blackless.

High demand for Murphy Card. I was very surprised about the final price. Is a a 41 years old Tough set and people begin interest in collect them. Is very difficult to put together a full set.

[Miked211]

It was not me but another Murphy player collector I know that won the blackless. He was super excited to add it. Such a tough find.
They just don’t show up very often.
Random question for you guys. There were a few blank back no signature 82 Topps cards listed on COMC a few years ago. Not a blackless because they had no back and a border. Some kind of proof?

[ALR-bishop]

Mike---there is Blackless, gray ghosts or Blacklessing, Blueless and....Autoless. I have a couple of them. The description is not mine but from a seller I bought several Blackless cards when building my set. Good example of Creative Writing

[ALR-bishop]

Autoless descriptions

[ALR-bishop]

I think Fred’s Autoless description is priceless which is why I saved it. And even though he says it is the “most rarest card” if you ever read his description of Blackless C sheet cards when he sold those you would have thought them more valuable than a Russian Faberge egg

[ALR-bishop]

One more rambling thought. Fred says they are not proof cards even though blank backed because they are not a proof of the issued cards. Rather he views them as a test design card that was replaced by a different design

Another example would be the Topps 1984 blank backed Head in the Box or Encased set of 66 cards, which differ from the issued cards in that the insert face is fully contained in the inset box rather than extending beyond it as with the issued cards. Fred would say they are not proof cards but rejected test design cards. To me that is semantics. I think they are proofs for an unissued design. But folks can call them whatever they want

[JustinD]

I call nonsense and can’t see a definition that covers these as a test issue and not a proof with blank backs. This is likely back door scrap that was rolled out the back as it did not finish the production process. If it did not complete the printing process or was tossed as scrap, there is no presentable proof that his was purposely done action to show design production options.

The only either mistake or even perhaps a design thought that slipped past editing is the George Foster in action with or without a signature.

In my mind this is scrap or proof, without it in hand to examine the cut I am unsure.

[ALR-bishop]

I have the Jackson. There are other blank back autoless cards with black borders. You could be right about scrap or they could be like the 84 Encased. I think they could be scrap in a sense too, an early rejected design. I have a “set” of those on an uncut sheet. But who knows. I like having the Jackson, whatever it is… or isn’t ��

Fred, who wrote the description above is eccentric but not a fraud. He sold a lot of legitimate 82 Blackless, 84 Encased and 85 Minis on eBay in years past. He thought very highly of his cards and priced them accordingly. But his descriptions always give me a chuckle. I could picture him at a carnival attraction

[jacksoncoupage]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

I have the Jackson. There are other blank back autoless cards with black borders. You could be right about scrap or they could be like the 84 Encased. I think they could be scrap in a sense too, an early rejected design. I have a “set” of those on an uncut sheet. But who knows. I like having the Jackson, whatever it is… or isn’t ��

I seem to recall the Fernando Valenzuela turning up a couple times over the last 15 years. I thought those were considered errors and weren't blank backed.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

I have the Jackson. There are other blank back autoless cards with black borders. You could be right about scrap or they could be like the 84 Encased. I think they could be scrap in a sense too, an early rejected design. I have a “set” of those on an uncut sheet. But who knows. I like having the Jackson, whatever it is… or isn’t ��

Fred, who wrote the description above is eccentric but not a fraud. He sold a lot of legitimate 82 Blackless, 84 Encased and 85 Minis on eBay in years past. He thought very highly of his cards and priced them accordingly. But his descriptions always give me a chuckle. I could picture him at a carnival attraction

It’s definitely a great card and I would love one, I was was just speaking to his statement that they were not proofs as there are numerous proof stages with preliminary being as a sample to the customer to get final approval of format and design. I am not badmouthing him or calling him a fraud ( different opinions never deserve such undesirable language unless you are currently Gen Z, lol), just stating the singular proofing method he describes ignores all steps of the approval process and encompasses only checking run pieces while in process.

Technically the 85 Minis (which are my favorite modern issue) are seemingly a combo of proofs and scrap as they were a sample of something not meant for production and swiped from the dumpster and hand cut. I feel like the encased have to be a similar story, likely an early run that was dumped after failing initial approval. I have bought so many fun oddities that all seem to arrive from a 40 mile circle of Duryea, PA.

I do give him copywriter credits on creating the term has “design test issue variation” as opposed to a sample proof.

Maybe it’s that I personally love the scrap title and honestly think it implies a far rarer card and want it to get the respect it deserves for its rarity and incredible luck to survive the trash pile and endure.

[bswhiten]

"...the ULTRA RAREST, if not the MOST RAREST, of ALL baseball cards ever..."

Thanks for posting Al. I love the description and use of CAPS to scream the rarity!
Personally, I don't collect the "Backless" cards, but I do like the "Blueless" and "Blacklessing" versions.

I would love to find the first written description of the Blackless cards.

Miked, that is great that it went to a Murph collector.

Blueless and Blackless Goose

[ALR-bishop]

Ben---from Fred to you. More than anyone needs to know about Blackless, Blueless, Blacklessing and Autoless

[ALR-bishop]

Another autoless card I picked up, Seaver IA

[Blackless Collector]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Ben---from Fred to you. More than anyone needs to know about Blackless, Blueless, Blacklessing and Autoless

Nice description by cristalentia. He dissapear from eBay, i never buy from fred. I request 2 cards but he never return to sell on ebay. Thanks Al for share!

[4reals]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

I think Fred’s Autoless description is priceless which is why I saved it. And even though he says it is the “most rarest card” if you ever read his description of Blackless C sheet cards when he sold those you would have thought them more valuable than a Russian Faberge egg

I saved it too, Al. The guy can sell, lol.

[Blackless Collector]

Another PSA Mistake....they remove the pic and remove from Blackless Pop report🙏🏻

[EGreenwood]

Like Glynparson, I remember pulling a blank backs. I pulled a pair (Mookie Wilson and Hubie Brooks) in Rowland Heights, CA. I still have them. I am on the look out for a number of commons.

egreenwo

[p819]

Looking for '82 Topps Cincinnati Reds only, any help would be appreciated.

[Blackless Collector]

Originally Posted by p819

Looking for '82 Topps Cincinnati Reds only, any help would be appreciated.

Keep an eye always on eBay, Reds is one of the toughest teams to assemble.

[Blackless Collector]

Hi Guys, the past week i bought this Bucky Dent in Action Card, thinking was a full Blackless. For my surprise the card have a very little thin black border in the left and very little area on bottom very confused with the ground. The top ,the right area and the middle of the bottom area looks very clean. In the simple view is not very notable. The card was the only one i found without Black like the regular and need the Blackless one for my collection.

Thanks to Joe W. For the yellow in Dent in Action card!

[bswhiten]

Looks like a partial blackless to me Christian. Still a tough one to acquire.

[steve B]

Looking at the PSA gallery for blackless, it looks like some of the cards have areas of halftone that are darker at the edges. Which is usually covered or partly hidden by the black.

If you haven't, have a look with a good magnifier, and see if there's actually black there.

[Blackless Collector]

Originally Posted by bswhiten

Looks like a partial blackless to me Christian. Still a tough one to acquire.

Yes Ben, the card is part of my Blackless Collection and still a great one. Is possible this is the only one i will find.

[Blackless Collector]

Originally Posted by steve B

Looking at the PSA gallery for blackless, it looks like some of the cards have areas of halftone that are darker at the edges. Which is usually covered or partly hidden by the black.

If you haven't, have a look with a good magnifier, and see if there's actually black there.

I note various cards and when i receive them all are pure Blackless, is the effect in picture.

[Blackless Collector]

.

[Blackless Collector]

My 1982 Topps Blackless remaining list:

101 Mike Schmidt IA "C"

107 Wayne Krenchicki "C"

116 Jim Wohlford "C"

201 George Brett IA "C"

275 Bob Watson "C"

288 Garry Templeton "C"

360 Len Barker "C"

442 Bruce Kison "C"

475 Alan Trammell "C"

481 Steve Carlton IA "C"

555 Scott McGregor All Star "C"

610 Rickey Henderson "C"

668 Dale Murphy "B"

705 Mickey Rivers IA "C"

716 Willie Stargell IA "C"

721 Greg Luzinski IA "C"

735 Rudy May "C"

741 Dave Lopes IA "C"

771 Rich Gossage IA "C"

[bswhiten]

This was posted on a Facebook group.
The gentleman sent his card to PSA as a “blacklessing” card.
What he got back is jaw dropping. Maybe a 5?

[Cliff Bowman]

I ran across this on eBay during a 'Topps error' search, it certainly isn't a "true" blackless card and in my opinion shouldn't even qualify as a blackless card.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/16654387227...Bk9SR5CP29yeYw

[slipk1068]

I am planning on sorting through boxes this holiday weekend in an effort to clear up some closet space and narrow the focus of my collection. One of the first boxes I looked at had these 2 cards. Hopefully, the rest of the boxes have more surprises like these!

These were not pulled from packs. They were purchased at a card show or a card store in the early/mid 1980's. I am trying to learn what current hobby opinion is on these cards, and what they might be worth. My research landed me here. I haven't read the entire thread yet, but I thought I would give my opinion of what these are and see if anyone agrees or disagrees. I am not even close to being an expert, but I was a printer for almost 10 years in my youth. I could be wrong, but this is my opinion on how these cards became "Blackless."

Printing ink is very thick and does not flow very well. As the ink in the ink tray is used, the remaining ink has to be forced forward in the ink tray so it contacts the first roller. From the first roller, it gets transferred to a series of rollers called an ink tower, As the ink is used, it needs to be moved up against the first roller every few minutes by the printing press operator. if it loses contact with that first roller, the image being printed will slowly fade as the ink tower rollers run out of ink until there is no ink left in the ink tower. Then you get a completely "Blackless" card.

The ink in the ink tray is not in contact with the first roller on these 2 cards. in The Don Cooper card on the left It has a very faded facsimile autograph, so it is being printed by the residulal ink remaining on the ink tower rollers. The image will get lighter with each image printed until the ink in the ink tower rollers is completely dried up like the Don Cooper card on the right. The impressions will be total Blackless until the operator moves the ink forward in the ink tray.

[Blackless Collector]

The Don Cooper of the right looks like a True Blackless. What was the States You purchase the Cards?

[slipk1068]

Makes sense that B sheet cards came from Long Island, NY These were purchased pre-1986 Long Island, NY. Likely from a card show at Nassau Veterans Memorial Coliseum or a small card show at the The Coliseum Motor Inn. They were not pack pulled. Purchased from a dealer as Missing Black Ink.

[Blackless Collector]

Originally Posted by slipk1068

Makes sense that B sheet cards came from Long Island, NY These were purchased pre-1986 Long Island, NY. Likely from a card show at Nassau Veterans Memorial Coliseum or a small card show at the The Coliseum Motor Inn. They were not pack pulled. Purchased from a dealer as Missing Black Ink.

Great information. The only card i need from "B" sheet is Dale Murphy, but the most toughest from "B" is the Bucky Dent in "Action" Blackless.

[slipk1068]

Originally Posted by Blackless Collector

Great information. The only card i need from "B" sheet is Dale Murphy, but the most toughest from "B" is the Bucky Dent in "Action" Blackless.

Wow that's pretty cool. Sounds like a long-term project for sure.

[Blackless Collector]

Originally Posted by slipk1068

Wow that's pretty cool. Sounds like a long-term project for sure.

Yes, i begin the set in 2019, i have the 95% of the set, still need 19 Cards, 1 from "B" and 18 from "C" Sheet.

[ALR-bishop]

In putting together my set got most of my A & B cards from NY and Cs from Michigan. But that was years ago

[Blackless Collector]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

In putting together my set got most of my A & B cards from NY and Cs from Michigan. But that was years ago

most of my Blackless cards were purchased from J. Sterbenz from his collection. He and I established a friendship and tremendous trust, he even sent me cards without paying and then I paid them, thanks to him I was able to complete 95% of the set, he helped me a lot. sadly he passed away in August 2023. Steve lee from Michigan I purchase the #450 Jack Morris and 4 Cards from "B", Great guy. I purchase few graded Cards from New Religion(Ebay seller) from Illinois, including Johnny Bench in PSA
6 and Eddie Murray in PSA 7.

I Request Cards in the past from Crystalentia but he never return the message and he deactivate the Ebay account.

[ALR-bishop]

Unfortunately Fred passed. He certainly gave Blackless cards a lot of publicity. I keep a lot of his write ups with my set

He was also a good early source for Topps 85 Minis

[Blackless Collector]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Unfortunately Fred passed. He certainly gave Blackless cards a lot of publicity. I keep a lot of his write ups with my set

He was also a good early source for Topps 85 Minis

wow, sorry to hear Fred Passed, My last Communication with Fred was in 2021, he was from New York?

[ALR-bishop]

NY area