Players not yet eligible for the HOF

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

WIth his WAR and BA, he's not making the Hall either way.

You're probably right, but that's what would make it interesting to see what happens if he did actually get to 500 home runs.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Tomi

So we're Jim Rice and Dick Allen.

I am not saying Kent is not deserving, but Rice and Allen were both for at least modest periods close to the best power hitters in the game.

[G1911]

Most homers, 2nd in slugging and RBI to Hornsby, 4th in OPS. Even with the slow start to his career Kent turned out very well and is so high up the 2B leaderboards it seems difficult to justify keeping him out over his late start, but performance is now secondary to narratives. Ortiz is let in with a positive steroid test while the others like him are not given the same treatment, Schilling is kept out for politics, Kent is out for being undesirable, Vizquel is out over a civil claim with no publicly available evidence, the vets committee appears to have reached Frisch era corruption of picking friends. Performance is a lot less relevant than it was 30 years ago. Makes it more difficult to pick who will or won’t among current players that will be up for votes in another decade plus - it will probably have as much as to do with narratives not about actual performance as it does anything definable.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Whitaker IMO even more deserving than Kent. And of course there's the case of Grich.

[BioCRN]

Contemporary ballot coming up this year (for the 2026 HOF class).

Now is the time for baseball to make up for the absolute disrespect of Kenny Lofton being a 1-and-done ballot HOF candidate.

If not for playing vs roiders, he would have been a lot more impressive compared to his peers and more than 6 All-Star selections.

[Greg Sonk]

Kent is one of those guys that shows much better in pure counting stats than modern ones. As soon as you start to take the era he played in into account, his case gets quite a bit worse.

I'm sure the off field stuff doesn't help, but it's not the only reason.

[Peter_Spaeth]

2nd base JAWS rankings

8 Grich
12 Utley
13 Whitaker
22 Kent

[Peter_Spaeth]

Any active pitchers beyond the big three, Cole and Sale who should be considered? DeGrom, already on the list. The traditional stats for all the rest are so unimpressive. Is Fried still a possibility at age 31 and less than 100 wins? Nola who is now awful? Wheeler? Or is the day of the starting pitcher just over?

[packs]

It's hard to imagine a reality where Blake Snell is a HOF pitcher but he's 32 and has two Cy Young awards during his only two decent seasons as a pro. It's not out of the realm of possibility he manages a third good season sometime before he retires and there isn't anyone with three or more Cy Youngs or who isn't in the HOF other than Clemens (assuming Kershaw, Scherzer and Verlander all get elected).

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

It's hard to imagine a reality where Blake Snell is a HOF pitcher but he's 32 and has two Cy Young awards during his only two decent seasons as a pro. It's not out of the realm of possibility he manages a third good season sometime before he retires and there isn't anyone with three or more Cy Youngs or who isn't in the HOF other than Clemens (assuming Kershaw, Scherzer and Verlander all get elected).

If that happens, he still won't make the Hall. As you point out, he's done literally nothing outside his Cy seasons. The same is not true for any other pitcher in that category.

[packs]

It would be an interesting case but I also think it would be really hard to advocate for him. At the same time, he would be among elite pitchers.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

It would be an interesting case but I also think it would be really hard to advocate for him. At the same time, he would be among elite pitchers.

Same concept in my mind if Schwarber hits 500 HR with a .220 BA. So not happening. At one point I thought Bieber and Buehler were going to be the next great pitchers but that doesn't look likely.

[packs]

I highly doubt Stanton gets there but I feel the same way about him if he were to somehow hit 500 homers. Just not a HOFer in my opinion.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

I highly doubt Stanton gets there but I feel the same way about him if he were to somehow hit 500 homers. Just not a HOFer in my opinion.

Completely agree.

[Kidnapped18]

Interesting PSA doesn't have Harper on its registry set list and Tejada is still on it

https://www.psacard.com/psasetregist...mposition/1512

Issue Card # Weight
1963 TOPPS PETE ROSE 537 10.00
1970 TOPPS YANKEES ROOKIES/T. MUNSON 189 2.00
1977 TOPPS DALE MURPHY 476 1.00
1978 TOPPS ROOKIE 2nd BASEMEN/LOU WHITAKER 704 1.00
1984 FLEER UPDATE ROGER CLEMENS U-27 2.00
1985 TOPPS MARK MCGWIRE 401 1.00
1986 FLEER UPDATE BARRY BONDS U-14 1.00
1989 DONRUSS CURT SCHILLING 635 1.00
1989 UPPER DECK GARY SHEFFIELD 13 1.00
1989 UPPER DECK OMAR VIZQUEL 787 1.00
1990 LEAF SAMMY SOSA 220 1.00
1990 UPPER DECK JUAN GONZALEZ 72 1.00
1992 BOWMAN MANNY RAMIREZ 532 1.00
1992 FLEER UPDATE JEFF KENT U-104 1.00
1994 SP ALEX RODRIGUEZ 15 1.50
1995 BOWMANS BEST ANDRUW JONES 7 1.00
1995 TOPPS TRADED CARLOS BELTRAN 18T 1.00
1997 BOWMAN CHROME MIGUEL TEJADA 273 1.00
2000 TOPPS CHROME TRADED MIGUEL CABRERA T40 1.00
2001 SP AUTHENTIC ALBERT PUJOLS 126 2.00
2002 BOWMAN CHROME DRAFT PICKS ZACK GREINKE 6 1.50
2002 BOWMAN CHROME DRAFT PICKS JOEY VOTTO 44 1.50
2003 BOWMAN CHROME DRAFT PICKS ROBINSON CANO 124 1.00
2004 TOPPS YADIER MOLINA 324 1.00
2005 TOPPS JUSTIN VERLANDER 677 1.00
2005 TOPPS CHROME UPDATES & HIGHLIGHTS NELSON CRUZ UH210 1.00
2008 TOPPS UPDATE & HIGHLIGHTS CLAYTON KERSHAW UH240 1.50
2008 TOPPS UPDATE & HIGHLIGHTS MAX SCHERZER UH280 1.50
2010 TOPPS BUSTER POSEY 2 1.00
2010 TOPPS UPDATE MIKE (GIANCARLO) STANTON US50 1.00
2011 TOPPS FREDDIE FREEMAN 145 1.00
2011 TOPPS UPDATE PAUL GOLDSCHMIDT US47 1.00
2011 TOPPS UPDATE JOSE ALTUVE US132 1.00
2011 TOPPS UPDATE MIKE TROUT US175 1.50
2013 TOPPS MANNY MACHADO 270 1.00
2013 TOPPS UPDATE NOLAN ARENADO US259 1.00
2014 TOPPS UPDATE MOOKIE BETTS BATTING US26 1.00
2014 TOPPS UPDATE JACOB DeGROM THROWING US50 1.50
2017 TOPPS AARON JUDGE CATCHING 287 1.00

[Fred]

500HR, 3000H, 300W were all auto-HOF induction numbers. Is the bar being raised?

What if Kingman hit 500HRs? Does anybody think he wouldn't have been voted in? His BA probably would have been close to .233 if he were able to continue. If he retired in 1989 instead of 1986, I think the HOF voters would have eventually given him a pass. The voters were probably thankful he didn't get that far because that lifetime BA would have been a hard sell.

Stanton is the next up of active players approaching 500HR. He's 47 away. This year he jacked a bunch at a pretty impressive rate (HR/10.4 AB). If he were to somehow continue at that pace, he'd be at 500HRs in less than a full season of at bats. He'd have 500HRs in < 7K at bats. That's impressive. It'd be hard not to vote him in. I suppose his overall stats aren't highly impressive but 500HRs is 500HRs. He'll probably be over .500 for slugging and his OPS at even .850 (if it drops that low) isn't bad. His lifetime BA (.258) at this point isn't horrible.

Just my 2 cents worth. Not trying to start any crap, just wanted to put some food for thought out there.

Edited to add - think Harold Baines, then think not inducting a dozen other players that are borderline or less.

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[Knightlax5]

Originally Posted by Kidnapped18

Interesting PSA doesn't have Harper on its registry set list and Tejada is still on it

https://www.psacard.com/psasetregist...mposition/1512

Issue Card # Weight
1963 TOPPS PETE ROSE 537 10.00
1970 TOPPS YANKEES ROOKIES/T. MUNSON 189 2.00
1977 TOPPS DALE MURPHY 476 1.00
1978 TOPPS ROOKIE 2nd BASEMEN/LOU WHITAKER 704 1.00
1984 FLEER UPDATE ROGER CLEMENS U-27 2.00
1985 TOPPS MARK MCGWIRE 401 1.00
1986 FLEER UPDATE BARRY BONDS U-14 1.00
1989 DONRUSS CURT SCHILLING 635 1.00
1989 UPPER DECK GARY SHEFFIELD 13 1.00
1989 UPPER DECK OMAR VIZQUEL 787 1.00
1990 LEAF SAMMY SOSA 220 1.00
1990 UPPER DECK JUAN GONZALEZ 72 1.00
1992 BOWMAN MANNY RAMIREZ 532 1.00
1992 FLEER UPDATE JEFF KENT U-104 1.00
1994 SP ALEX RODRIGUEZ 15 1.50
1995 BOWMANS BEST ANDRUW JONES 7 1.00
1995 TOPPS TRADED CARLOS BELTRAN 18T 1.00
1997 BOWMAN CHROME MIGUEL TEJADA 273 1.00
2000 TOPPS CHROME TRADED MIGUEL CABRERA T40 1.00
2001 SP AUTHENTIC ALBERT PUJOLS 126 2.00
2002 BOWMAN CHROME DRAFT PICKS ZACK GREINKE 6 1.50
2002 BOWMAN CHROME DRAFT PICKS JOEY VOTTO 44 1.50
2003 BOWMAN CHROME DRAFT PICKS ROBINSON CANO 124 1.00
2004 TOPPS YADIER MOLINA 324 1.00
2005 TOPPS JUSTIN VERLANDER 677 1.00
2005 TOPPS CHROME UPDATES & HIGHLIGHTS NELSON CRUZ UH210 1.00
2008 TOPPS UPDATE & HIGHLIGHTS CLAYTON KERSHAW UH240 1.50
2008 TOPPS UPDATE & HIGHLIGHTS MAX SCHERZER UH280 1.50
2010 TOPPS BUSTER POSEY 2 1.00
2010 TOPPS UPDATE MIKE (GIANCARLO) STANTON US50 1.00
2011 TOPPS FREDDIE FREEMAN 145 1.00
2011 TOPPS UPDATE PAUL GOLDSCHMIDT US47 1.00
2011 TOPPS UPDATE JOSE ALTUVE US132 1.00
2011 TOPPS UPDATE MIKE TROUT US175 1.50
2013 TOPPS MANNY MACHADO 270 1.00
2013 TOPPS UPDATE NOLAN ARENADO US259 1.00
2014 TOPPS UPDATE MOOKIE BETTS BATTING US26 1.00
2014 TOPPS UPDATE JACOB DeGROM THROWING US50 1.50
2017 TOPPS AARON JUDGE CATCHING 287 1.00

I’ve bugged the set registry person for a year about adding Ohtani to this registry but I have not heard anything.

[Topnotchsy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Any active pitchers beyond the big three, Cole and Sale who should be considered? DeGrom, already on the list. The traditional stats for all the rest are so unimpressive. Is Fried still a possibility at age 31 and less than 100 wins? Nola who is now awful? Wheeler? Or is the day of the starting pitcher just over?

Fried is a sneaky candidate. He is probably only about half way from where he would need to be to warrant entry into the Hall, and he doesn't rack up a lot of K's, so his dominance is not as visceral. But he has an interesting case.

His career ERA+ is 141. That's tied for 19th of all-time for pitchers with 1000+ innings. And among the people ahead of him are:

- 3 relievers
- 4 Negro League pitchers
- 4 deadball era pitchers

The remaining 7 pitchers are: Clayton Kershaw, Pedro Martinez, Jacob DeGrom, Lefty Grove, Walter Johnson, Roger Clemens and Brandon Webb.

Webb played too briefly to warrant HOF consideration and DeGrom is a question mark. The rest are arguably the most dominant pitchers in baseball history. And for 1000+ innings to this point, Fried has matched that.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Kidnapped18

Interesting PSA doesn't have Harper on its registry set list and Tejada is still on it

https://www.psacard.com/psasetregist...mposition/1512

Issue Card # Weight
1963 TOPPS PETE ROSE 537 10.00
1970 TOPPS YANKEES ROOKIES/T. MUNSON 189 2.00
1977 TOPPS DALE MURPHY 476 1.00
1978 TOPPS ROOKIE 2nd BASEMEN/LOU WHITAKER 704 1.00
1984 FLEER UPDATE ROGER CLEMENS U-27 2.00
1985 TOPPS MARK MCGWIRE 401 1.00
1986 FLEER UPDATE BARRY BONDS U-14 1.00
1989 DONRUSS CURT SCHILLING 635 1.00
1989 UPPER DECK GARY SHEFFIELD 13 1.00
1989 UPPER DECK OMAR VIZQUEL 787 1.00
1990 LEAF SAMMY SOSA 220 1.00
1990 UPPER DECK JUAN GONZALEZ 72 1.00
1992 BOWMAN MANNY RAMIREZ 532 1.00
1992 FLEER UPDATE JEFF KENT U-104 1.00
1994 SP ALEX RODRIGUEZ 15 1.50
1995 BOWMANS BEST ANDRUW JONES 7 1.00
1995 TOPPS TRADED CARLOS BELTRAN 18T 1.00
1997 BOWMAN CHROME MIGUEL TEJADA 273 1.00
2000 TOPPS CHROME TRADED MIGUEL CABRERA T40 1.00
2001 SP AUTHENTIC ALBERT PUJOLS 126 2.00
2002 BOWMAN CHROME DRAFT PICKS ZACK GREINKE 6 1.50
2002 BOWMAN CHROME DRAFT PICKS JOEY VOTTO 44 1.50
2003 BOWMAN CHROME DRAFT PICKS ROBINSON CANO 124 1.00
2004 TOPPS YADIER MOLINA 324 1.00
2005 TOPPS JUSTIN VERLANDER 677 1.00
2005 TOPPS CHROME UPDATES & HIGHLIGHTS NELSON CRUZ UH210 1.00
2008 TOPPS UPDATE & HIGHLIGHTS CLAYTON KERSHAW UH240 1.50
2008 TOPPS UPDATE & HIGHLIGHTS MAX SCHERZER UH280 1.50
2010 TOPPS BUSTER POSEY 2 1.00
2010 TOPPS UPDATE MIKE (GIANCARLO) STANTON US50 1.00
2011 TOPPS FREDDIE FREEMAN 145 1.00
2011 TOPPS UPDATE PAUL GOLDSCHMIDT US47 1.00
2011 TOPPS UPDATE JOSE ALTUVE US132 1.00
2011 TOPPS UPDATE MIKE TROUT US175 1.50
2013 TOPPS MANNY MACHADO 270 1.00
2013 TOPPS UPDATE NOLAN ARENADO US259 1.00
2014 TOPPS UPDATE MOOKIE BETTS BATTING US26 1.00
2014 TOPPS UPDATE JACOB DeGROM THROWING US50 1.50
2017 TOPPS AARON JUDGE CATCHING 287 1.00

Don't see Mattingly or Utley

[Kidnapped18]

Lindor, Ohtani, Ramirez, Soto should all be added

Ramirez 2013 7x All Star
Lindor 2015 5x All Star - I see him on the list now
Ohtani 2018 5x All Star, 2 WS rings, 3 MVP, ROY
Soto 2018 4x All Star, WS ring

Cal Raleigh 2021 maybe a little early 1x All Star, MLB Catcher and Switch Hitter HR record
Yamamoto 2024 maybe a little early but is definitely on the radar with 1x All Star, 2 WS rings, WS MVP

[SyrNy1960]

Originally Posted by packs

I highly doubt Stanton gets there but I feel the same way about him if he were to somehow hit 500 homers. Just not a HOFer in my opinion.

Agree! As a Yankee fan, Stanton needs to be more consistent.

[mainemule]

7-8 years ago I had Cano and Pedroia on my HOF watch list but PEDS and injury derailed both respectively. Pedroia can thank Machado for shortening his career 😡

[sayheykid54]

Hands down I think it's Lou Whitaker. Arguably the best 2nd basemen of the 1980's and a partner in the best double play combination in history with Alan Trammell. His numbers compare favorably with Ryne Sandberg and Joe Morgan.

If he played for the Yankees he would already in the Hall of Fame.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Who since Rizzuto got in because he was a Yankee? It hasn't helped Maris or Munson or Mattingly or Pettitte.