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#201
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I like Johan too but does anyone think he is better than those other pitchers based on 1 stat? I don't
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#202
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Quote:
I corrected my prior post as to Rolen’s top ten finishes, rather than deferring to an article I had quoted. I acknowledged that I have looked at the numbers more closely. I stated that Rolen made some such categories on occasion, but did not perform any better than Graig Nettles, who few here believe belongs in the HOF. As for others, again, I apparently don’t give them the same weight as “meaningful” as you do. That does not make me a liar. But, while looking at these, I see I missed one, Rolen did finish in the top ten in slugging percentage–once. He also once finished seventh in OBP+ if that’s important, but so did Nettles. What else is important or meaningful? I already pointed out that Rolen finished behind Nettles in both offensive and defensive WAR. As for the “many more” significant categories, Rolen did finish in the top 10 in defensive range at 3b 10 times , if you think that is important– but Nettles did so 11 times. Double plays turned by a 3b? Rolen had 5 top ten finishes, Nettles had 10. Total zone runs at 3b–Rolen with 10, Nettles 9. Putouts at 3b–Rolen 6, Nettles 12. Assists? Rolen with 8, Nettles 12. Fielding % as 3bman? Rolen 9 top tens, Nettles 12. And so on. So yes, in the more traditional offensive categories and I as I noted in my last post, Rolen did in fact make the top 10 in a few, one time, and a couple of them twice. Wow, hat’s off. As for the defensive numbers, he made it many times, but was outshined by Nettles in nearly all of them, which makes for a decent argument that they are not all that important to the HOF when a guy with such credentials and similar if not better offensive numbers gets kicked to the curb with single digit vote percentages.
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“Hypocrisy is a tribute vice pays to virtue” - Francois de La Rochefoucauld. If we are to have another contest in the near future of our national existence, I predict that the dividing line will not be Mason and Dixon's but between patriotism and intelligence on the one side, and superstition, ambition and ignorance on the other. - Ulysses S. Grant, military commander, 18th US President. |
#203
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Johan looks good partly because his career was so short, he never reached the point where his career began to decline and lower his numbers. On top of that, Johan Santana would have been a Hall of Famer had his career been a bit longer. In fact I'm not sure Johan Santana shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame even as it is under what should be called the Koufax Rule.
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#204
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#205
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I'm okay with Nettles and Ron Cey and Madlock going in. I would put Arod and Bonds and those guys too.
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Want to buy or trade for T213-1 (Bob Rhoades) Other Louisiana issues T216 T215 T214 T213 Etc |
#206
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I look at the list another way - if I look at the top 35 SP, there's only ONE that stands out as seeming not belonging. I think that shows it's actually a pretty decent stat. I mean, look at the top 10, 25, 50, 100 WAR list...it's basically a list of the best players ever. Maybe you can nitpick a spot here or there, but you could do that with literally ANY ranking system. Reuschel was 214-191 with a 3.37 ERA (114 ERA+) in about 3,550 IP. Right behind him on the list is John Smoltz, 213-155 with a 3.33 ERA (125 ERA+) in 3,475 IP). I don't think Reuschel was better than Smoltz, but considering the quality of the teams on which they played, I can understand why they're ranked similarly (since WAR *is* a counting stat).
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