OT: At least 22 Dead at Virginia Tech

[Archive]

Posted By: barrysloate

Jeff- what do you think about Richardson (forgot his first name), the governor of New Mexico? He seems like a pretty cool guy.

[Archive]

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Bill Richardson.

I love his state. There's a great spa there called Ten Thousand Waves. I think he's got the portfolio and experience for sure but he just can't seem to make a splash.

[Archive]

Posted By: barrysloate

Do you know you used "ten thousand waves" and "make a splash" in the same sentence?

[Archive]

Posted By: paulstratton

OK Jeff, maybe Snoop Dog catcher then. I'm with Barry, how about "None of the Above" in 2008?

Bradley is a great guy and very smart, but he puts people to sleep when he talks. I know some of you will love it when Jeb Bush wins!!!

[Archive]

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Just noticed it -- I'm thinking it was subliminal.

[Archive]

Posted By: barrysloate

Bradley may put people to sleep, but no presidential candidate ever had a better jump shot from 15 feet. Shouldn't that count for something?

[Archive]

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Two handed set shot. Took me a while to unlearn his style as a young basketball player.

[Archive]

Posted By: barrysloate

He jumped- about 4" off the ground.

They don't make basketball players like him anymore. He was simply smarter than everyone else- and that made a difference. The 1970 Knicks were the most cerebral team that ever played, and they were the champions.

[Archive]

Posted By: paulstratton

Yes, it counts for 2 points.

[Archive]

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

I just read that Cho bought some magazines for his gun off of ebay; they listed his ebay handle in an article and I checked it out. He received one negative feedback in like 69 transactions. The one neg was for his failure to get Hokie football tickets to a buyer. In retaliating with a neg of his own, Cho wrote that the buyer "opted for local pickup but never responded to email to arrange pickup" or something like that. Can you imagine meeting that psycho face to face to pick up a ticket? Best neg that buyer ever got....

[Archive]

Posted By: barrysloate

How would you like to be the guy who was his college roommate? What's going through his mind right now?

[Archive]

Posted By: Peter Spaeth

So you can buy ammunition on ebay. Sorry, I am no flaming liberal, but this is a very sick country.

[Archive]

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

No, Peter, just the empty magazines.

[Archive]

Posted By: Peter Spaeth

I stand corrected but it's still far too easy to obtain guns and ammunition in this country.

[Archive]

Posted By: David Smith

Now that this thread has fallen into Political mode, I just have to say this.

I DON'T KNOW WHY ANYBODY WOULD WANT TO BE THE NEXT PRESIDENT!!!!

If a Democrat wins, pulls the troops out, raises taxes to pay for this whole mess and Iraq goes into full Civil War, then the Republicans will say, "I TOLD YOU SO".

If a Republican wins, then the troops stay longer and more soldiers get killed and wounded. Then they pull the soldiers out, taxes are raised to pay for this whole mess and Iraq goes into full scale Civil War. Then the Democrats will say, "SEE, WE TOLD YOU GEORGE W BUSH WAS WRONG".

This is one time (kind of) where I would like to see a President get a Third Term. That way Bush would have to stand up and do something about this mess instead of just biding his time until the next election. Then again, I would hate to see what other trouble he would get America into.

Keeping troops in harms way just to put blame on the other political party is immoral.

David

[Archive]

Posted By: Dan Koteles

wasnt this supposed to get back to greiving for those who lost their lives .Politics are slightly okay ,but this is what it has turned into a political thread.

Lets hope for a safe return of all the soldiers and pray for all the victims in each of these situations.

save the harpseals too!....

pray for all goodness in life to come and keep your family tight and out of dangers way.

[Archive]

Posted By: peter chao

Dan,

I agree with you, so far I haven't really said anything about the victiums. The problem is I can't grieve without feeling depressed.

So my solution is to let my mind go wild looking for the source of the problem and possible remedies.

I apologize for my ranting and raving, but it's just my way of dealing with the situation. I've been like this for 2-3 days now.

I'm just glad that I haven't been barred from this forum. Thanks guys, thanks Leon.

Peter

[Archive]

Posted By: Dan Koteles

this wasnt necessarily addressed to you. Politics on the board should be nixed over my innocent save the harpseals post. Noone can ever tell when someone is going to go on a rampage. Iam all for the grieving thread , but when someone starts politics on a baseball card thread ......back & forth , back & forth....uh-uh.

Guns are always going to be around and so are villains,thugs, thug rappers that promote violence ,etc....etc...

You would have to have security in every building with a metal checker in order to avoid these situations. There are just alot of mean people in society. Times have changed. It use to be "never hit a guy with glasses on" and "never kick a man when he is down.....not today. Days of "gee whiz" and "aw shucks" are
over.

Baseball cards, Red wine....oh and enough talking....Iam leaving for the tiger game now.....back to baseball !

[Archive]

Posted By: peter chao

I'm glad it's Sunday. I've been going crazy the last couple of days. It's when you start following the logic of a madman that you start going crazy yourself...

Here I am about 2,500 miles from Virginia, I don't know Mr. Cho, never been to the campus, and didn't know any of the victims or their families.

And I'm going crazy. I cannot imagine the grief that the families of the victims are going through.

Then you start following Mr. Cho's train of thought. Here's a mild and meek man, who has probably never even been in a fight in his life going ballistic.

Then you start thinking about his family and how guilty they must feel. They must have known about his psychological problems but they didn't take strong remedial measures.

By the way, Mr. Cho's older sister is a genius. She picked Princeton over Harvard. If she isn't a genius then at least she has extremely good taste.

Perhaps Mr. Cho wasn't a genius but clearly he was an extremely sensitive individual and could have made a significant contribution to our society.

Part of the blame for the senseless violence has to rest with a society that did not bother to reach out to him and reassure him that his life mattered.

Peter

[Archive]

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

I have some empathy for Cho as it would seem that he had a tough life with his mental issues and such. However, my empathy disappears once I recall that he savagely took the lives of all of those innocent kids and teachers whose lives were just starting. And my empathy disappears when I recall thta Cho had prepared ugly and vicious video and written taunts to his victims, their families and to our society as a whole.

With all that in mind, I hope that there is a hell and that Cho is experiencing for eternity all the pain that comes with it.

Sorry I can't love the sinner as much as you do, Peter.

[Archive]

Posted By: peter chao

Jeff,

Let's say Mr. Cho had been captured. Would you have been able to defend him in a Court.

I had a friend that went to MIT and left because at the time there were very few pretty Asian girls on campus. One semester he just showed up at my doorsteps and asked if he could rent a room in my apartment. Well, anybody that had the good sense to choose women over academics, now that's a good roommate.

Anyway, he told me a story about his youth, the guy's a legitimate genius. Smartest high school graduate from San Francisco. Anyway, he told me when he was young he was ostracized by classmates because of his genius. Everybody hated him because the most difficult concepts were a snap for him.

Anyway, he told me that in elementary school he thought about trying to obtain an assault rifle and going into the underground. I asked him what he meant he said he was thinking about shunning society and melting into the underworld. He would rob and kill and just survive off the land.

Of course I was shocked and stunned, and I've followed him through the years. Needless to say, he never followed up with his dark thoughts. Of all things, he ended up going to seminary.

The point of all this is sometimes there is a very thin line between genius and a madman.

Peter

[Archive]

Posted By: Dan

Peter says something a little more shocking. Just stop typing words with no thought to them. You may need to seriously consider some kind of therapy since you are now even more confused since all of this happened at VT. What? No one in their right mind should give two ****s about the idiot that shot up all those innocent people, you really need to stop wanking on about it.

Life sucks sometimes and life is hard sometimes and peoples parents are mean to them sometimes and their friends pick on them sometimes and life is hard sometimes... oh, I already said that. Well it is, life is hard, so what? If life was easy, you would be Paris Hilton and look how she turned out.

[Archive]

Posted By: Bill Stone

Paris Hilton --she's hot!

[Archive]

Posted By: Cobby33

.

[Archive]

Posted By: Peter Spaeth

Mr. Cho was an extremely sensitive individual?

Peter C. -- the guy was a psychotic killer, no more, no less. Thousands of people for whatever reason get alienated -- they don't methodically buy guns and ammunition and then plan and execute mass murder. I recognize this has affected you deeply, but please stop looking for silver linings and weird angles. There are none.

[Archive]

Posted By: barrysloate

Today's New York Times had a lengthy biography of Mr. Cho. One of the comments was particularly chilling.

Apparently some time ago one of his classmates in English finished reading one of Cho's bizarre plays, turned to his friend and said: "this is the kind of guy who is going to walk into a classroom and start shooting people." If that quote is true, it's pretty scary stuff.

[Archive]

Posted By: peter chao

Peter S.,

Your right there is no silver lining to this mess. However, there is a lot of dialogue going on, hopefully our government will come up with something more than business like usual.

Peter

[Archive]

Posted By: Mike

Lets stop asking the government to save us from own stupidity. It won't work, it ends up costing us money, that is better spent elsewhere. Plus when was the last time they have ever done anything right? The government, cannot see into some mad mans head, and stop them from doing insane things. And in fact, if the government ever does come up with the ability to see inside our heads, look out. Who in the government will be in charge of determining which one of us is nuts ?

[Archive]

Posted By: Cobby33

Good question. Looking at themselves would be a good start.

[Archive]

Posted By: leon

This reminds me of the very tongue in cheek saying "It's ok folks. We're the government and we're here to help" .......

[Archive]

Posted By: T E McMorrow

Comparing Bush to Lincoln?

C'mon. Someone wrote further above that Lincoln's popularity was at 17%, and that if CNN were covering the Civil War...yada yada yada.

Are we counting the south in this 17%? Lincoln was a tad unpopular in the south which would tend to skew a poll a wee bit. Are you basing this poll in the darkest days of the war, when it appeared all was lost? Then yes, Lincoln was extremely unpopular.

But post-war, and particularly post-assasination, Lincoln was lionized in the north as no other President since.

If Bush could have gotten one aspect of Lincoln's traits, namely Lincoln's ability to admit when he was wrong, he might have been able to turn this fiasco around.

Lincoln made some crucial errors early in the war, admitted his mistakes, corrected course, and won. Won the brutal war, by the way, in less time than W has been in Iraq. The United States as you know it would not exist without Lincoln.

The United States will survive W, at an enormous cost.

I am quite touched by the soldier's pics and stories from Iraq. I appreciate and applaud his courage in touching the lives of Iraqi children.

But the occupation of Iraq is a mess. Every day, there is another Va Tech in Iraq, another 25, 50, 75, 100 innocents slaughtered DAILY. These numbers aren't some left-wing fiction, they are too real and too horrific. We are stunned and rightly sickened by the insanity that occured in Va Tech, but the same insanity occurs on a daily basis in a nation 10% the size of ours, with our sons and daughters, brothers and sisters stuck in the middle.

What is the objective? What is the goal?

[Archive]

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

So if we leave and the 'innocents' continue to get killed, in larger numbers, in the name of ethnic cleansing -- is that a plan too?

[Archive]

Posted By: T E McMorrow

Fine Jeff, but what is the goal? What is the objective? Can you quatify it?

[Archive]

Posted By: Cobby33

IMHO, we have enough problems on our own soil with people starving, homeless, jobless, etc. -that we should concentrate on cleaning up our own streets before cleaning up everyone else's.

[Archive]

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Well, that is my point: just leaving Iraq now with the knowledge that various Muslim sects will just kill each other is not necessarily what any of us life-loving Americans want. While we decry the innocents murdered everyday in Iraq let's not forget that 99% of the deaths are caused by Muslims to Muslims (or by Muslims to anyone else).

But this is really for another day. Let's worry about kids with guns on campuses today.

[Archive]

Posted By: barrysloate

Sadly Iraq is a lost cause.

The only thing we can do by staying there is to keep the civil war a bit in check. At the moment the violence and killing goes on unabated. If we leave the country implodes.

I don't see a right answer.

[Archive]

Posted By: Cobby33

This has been going on there for thousands of years. What would make anyone think that any nation ("superpower" or not) could put a stop to it- or even put it in check? Perhaps some of our "leaders" should take a refresher course in History...or Philosophy or Religious Studies- but that would actually take some effort, thought and introspection. Silly me.

[Archive]

Posted By: paulstratton

Hoofaway,

I wasn't saying "Bush is Lincoln", I was just trying to say maybe this will all be viewed differently in the rear-view mirror. Of course the South would count, do Democrats count in the current polls?

[Archive]

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

So Cobby, if this has been going on for thousands of years - Muslims killing Muslims - how did Islam get to be called the "Religion of Peace"? (And I'm not being a smartass)

[Archive]

Posted By: Ryan Christoff

I haven't posted on most of the recent threads since they've made me a bit nauseous trying to read them, but I just wanted some clarification here.

In this thread, did I really read someone compare the VA Tech gunman to the U.S. Government, with the only difference being the gunman is more noble?

Noble? Professor Chaos, you've really gone off the deep end on this one. Maybe you should consider apologizing to the parents of all the dead students whose lives were brutally taken by a killer who you describe as more noble than the government.

I don't care what comparison you're trying to make, it's shameful to use the word "noble" in the same sentence as that crazed mass-murderer.

Here's an idea: how about no more thoughtless posts for a few days. Maybe give yourself a timeout after you type, but before you post. If you can come back an hour after you typed a post, and it still makes any sense at all to you, go ahead and post. But please, put some thought into what you're saying. It's clear you've neglected to do that in this thread.

-Ryan

[Archive]

Posted By: peter chao

Ryan,

I'm glad you called me on that post and I regret having made it.
I do apologize to the victims and their families.

Peter

[Archive]

Posted By: barrysloate

Most threads do digress off topic, especially the controversial ones.

[Archive]

Posted By: barrysloate

Jeff- there are something like a billion Muslims in the world.

Iraq represents a tiny portion of them, and perhaps not the ideal of what the religion is all about.

[Archive]

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

I'm not just limiting my comment to Iraq-and I don't think Cobby was, either, though he'll correct me if I'm wrong.

[Archive]

Posted By: Cobby33

Jeff-

Wasn't that "religion of peace" coined by, or at least adopted by, George W. Bush? I think that Islam, as with all religions (take away the radical factions), in their purest form, preach peace.

At any rate, I'm not sure the problems in that area (correct, not restricting to Iraq), have been Muslim v. Muslim. For "thousands of years," (loosely speaking), the Middle East has been fought over by the Arabs (Muslims), the Jews and the Christians.

This, of course, was aggravated post WWII when the U.N. Security Council (controlled mainly by Western countires)re-drew national boundaries, allowing Israel to be the sovreign state of the Jews. This, of course, didn't sit well with the "native" Arabs, who felt that a part of their native land was being taken from them. Of course, the Israel/Syira war didn't help matters either, but that's a different topic.

So- my point was, this area of the world has been a hotbed for hundreds (maybe not thousands) of years and has only gotten worse in the last 60 years- certainly not something the U.S. can cure in a few years. Add to that the "radical" factions and it becomes almost an impossible task.

[Archive]

Posted By: T E McMorrow

Paul, I said that you compared Bush to Lincoln, not that you said Bush was Lincoln...I was responding to that comparison...

As far as going OT on this thread, this thread has wandered hither and yon across the American political landscape...

Ryan, you're right, It is wrong, way off to compare American troops to the sicko in Va Tech. I'm sure that poster realizes that...

The only apt comparrison to me with Va Tech is as I stated, that the Iraqis are experiencing a Va Tech a day, MINIMUM, despite being 1/10th our size...

[Archive]

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Cobby, I agree.

[Archive]

Posted By: peter chao

Leon we finally agreed on something, it's time to lock the thread.

Peter

[Archive]

Posted By: peter chao

But seriously guys, I do think of the victims. To think that most of them were unmarried. I cannot imagine my life without my wife. To think that these youngsters will never have the opportunity to marry the person of their dreams and to never have the opportunity to start a family.

Peter