Let the bidding frenzy begin......

[ChiefBenderForever]

Shouldn't the real question be why this was a 24 hr auction and general lack of info yet was bought at a major auction house? Seller either didn't care or knew exactly what they were doing,but still, 24 hrs ??

[Jlighter]

Originally Posted by ChiefBenderForever

Shouldn't the real question be why this was a 24 hr auction and general lack of info yet was bought at a major auction house? Seller either didn't care or knew exactly what they were doing,but still, 24 hrs ??

I believe he said he was moving and needed some quick cash.

[HRBAKER]

He certainly raised some.

[ChiefBenderForever]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

He certainly raised some.

And quick !! Still a bit shocking with a card like this or maybe this will become the hot new trend.

[HRBAKER]

His feedback is interesting, 4 years ago he sold a PSA/DNA 8 Ruth auto'd ball for 7G+. Has/had some nice stuff.

[yanks12025]

Looks like Andrew has a new card he can offer for sale.

[Matt]

A question - for those who are opposed to 'outing,' do you feel the same about 'outing' an eBay listing where the seller is selling a decent looking reprint as an authentic card? If you think that kind of outing is OK, why the difference of position?

[HRBAKER]

That could certainly be construed as an instance of helping out someone who "hadn't done their homework."

Hi Matt!

Anyone know where I can find a nice Heilmann M101-6?

[ullmandds]

if a seller is trying to deceive a buyer in selling a fake as authentic...I have no problem with it being outed...who wants a reprint???

[Leon]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

if a seller is trying to deceive a buyer in selling a fake as authentic...I have no problem with it being outed...who wants a reprint???

Agreed. The board has always been great at exposing fraud. To me there is a big difference in outing fraud and outing a misidentified but authentic item. There are certainly good arguments on both sides of this debate. And I hope no one construes my preference as anything more than one collectors preference. I remember several years ago when I had spotted one of those notebooks on ebay, that has the E95/E96 type players on the cover. It was going somewhat unnoticed and I was hopeful. It then got outed on the board and went for something like 5k. Forget all of the reasons for and against outing, as a collector I was bummed. I didn't win it as I didn't have 5k to spend on it.

[teetwoohsix]

Originally Posted by Leon

Agreed. The board has always been great at exposing fraud. To me there is a big difference in outing fraud and outing a misidentified but authentic item. There are certainly good arguments on both sides of this debate. And I hope no one construes my preference as anything more than one collectors preference. I remember several years ago when I had spotted one of those notebooks on ebay, that has the E95/E96 type players on the cover. It was going somewhat unnoticed and I was hopeful. It then got outed on the board and went for something like 5k. Forget all of the reasons for and against outing, as a collector I was bummed. I didn't win it as I didn't have 5k to spend on it.

I understand that feeling Leon, I've had that same feeling losing a card in the last couple of seconds on a regular ebay auction that wasn't outed (as far as I knew) anywhere.

The funny thing about this subject is that I bet the same people who are against the outing of an auction (from a buyers standpoint) would have a totally different stance if the topic was about a card that they were selling I bet we wouldn't hear a peep out of them

Sincerely, Clayton

[Matt]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

That could certainly be construed as an instance of helping out someone who "hadn't done their homework."

Hi Matt!

Anyone know where I can find a nice Heilmann M101-6?

Hey Jeff - I'm glad someone caught the point of my post.

Hmmm.... M101-6 HOFers? Haven't seen any of 'em...

[timn1]

...if (as I'm sure was the case here) the outing party was not personally connected to the auction.

Sure, things slip through on ebay, and this might have done, given the vagueness of the listing.

But I think it's unrealistic and even absurd to complain that (quoting Jeff B from way back in the thread) outing defeats "an ebayer [who] through their own work has uncovered something listed either poorly, erroneously or incorrectly so that it may be able to be obtained at a significantly lower price"

In the first place, the person doing the outing has obviously done the homework of uncovering the item. But rather than selfishly keeping it to himself and trying to win it for a steal, he may be doing the hobby a service in calling other collectors' attention to it.

If an item like this isn't outed, someone might get lucky and steal it, but nobody "deserves" to get that outcome. That's their good fortune, but it's hardly a right that can be violated by outing. I would argue instead that it's more important to the health of the hobby that sellers of valuable items should rely on being able to get reasonable market value for them, and they should not have to endure a conspiracy of silence among collectors seeking to prevent that outcome for selfish reasons.

I also think it's absurd to claim that the selling price of an item that is outed will somehow sprout wings and fly to the moon BEYOND ITS ACTUAL MARKET VALUE. Sure, it will go higher than if it weren't outed, but why would it go beyond its legitimate market value?

This is, after all, a public board about vintage BB cards. It seems to me that any publicly available information (i.e. an auction listed on ebay) about that topic is totally legitimate, especially if it's likely to be of interest to a significant number of people (whether they compete for it or not).

[teetwoohsix]

Originally Posted by timn1

...if (as I'm sure was the case here) the outing party was not personally connected to the auction.

Sure, things slip through on ebay, and this might have done, given the vagueness of the listing.

But I think it's unrealistic and even absurd to complain that (quoting Jeff B from way back in the thread) outing defeats "an ebayer [who] through their own work has uncovered something listed either poorly, erroneously or incorrectly so that it may be able to be obtained at a significantly lower price"

In the first place, the person doing the outing has obviously done the homework of uncovering the item. But rather than selfishly keeping it to himself and trying to win it for a steal, he may be doing the hobby a service is calling other collectors' attention to it.

If an item like this isn't outed, someone might get lucky and steal it, but nobody "deserves" to get that outcome. That's their good fortune, but it's hardly a right that can be violated by outing. I would argue instead that it's more important to the health of the hobby that sellers of valuable items should rely on being able to get reasonable market value for them, and they should not have to endure a conspiracy of silence among collectors seeking to prevent that outcome for selfish reasons.

I also think it's absurd to claim that the selling price of an item that is outed will somehow sprout wings and fly to the moon BEYOND ITS ACTUAL MARKET VALUE. Sure, it will go higher than if it weren't outed, but why would it go beyond its legitimate market value?

This is, after all, a public board about vintage BB cards. It seems to me that any publicly available information (i.e. an auction listed on ebay) about that topic is totally legitimate, especially if it's likely to be of interest to a significant number of people (whether they compete for it or not).

+1 Great post.

Sincerely, Clayton

[Kenny Cole]

Originally Posted by timn1

...if (as I'm sure was the case here) the outing party was not personally connected to the auction.

Sure, things slip through on ebay, and this might have done, given the vagueness of the listing.

But I think it's unrealistic and even absurd to complain that (quoting Jeff B from way back in the thread) outing defeats "an ebayer [who] through their own work has uncovered something listed either poorly, erroneously or incorrectly so that it may be able to be obtained at a significantly lower price"

In the first place, the person doing the outing has obviously done the homework of uncovering the item. But rather than selfishly keeping it to himself and trying to win it for a steal, he may be doing the hobby a service is calling other collectors' attention to it.

If an item like this isn't outed, someone might get lucky and steal it, but nobody "deserves" to get that outcome. That's their good fortune, but it's hardly a right that can be violated by outing. I would argue instead that it's more important to the health of the hobby that sellers of valuable items should rely on being able to get reasonable market value for them, and they should not have to endure a conspiracy of silence among collectors seeking to prevent that outcome for selfish reasons.

I also think it's absurd to claim that the selling price of an item that is outed will somehow sprout wings and fly to the moon BEYOND ITS ACTUAL MARKET VALUE. Sure, it will go higher than if it weren't outed, but why would it go beyond its legitimate market value?

This is, after all, a public board about vintage BB cards. It seems to me that any publicly available information (i.e. an auction listed on ebay) about that topic is totally legitimate, especially if it's likely to be of interest to a significant number of people (whether they compete for it or not).

I'm sorry Tim, but you are making too much sense. Please stop it. Best,

Kenny