|
#151
|
|||
|
|||
Questions for Doug Allen
Posted By: barrysloate
I've always felt that many of the problems that arise from cards either being misgraded, or altered cards getting graded at all, occur because the graders do not spend as much time looking at a card as they should. I have never witnessed a card being professionally graded but I can only imagine a factory set-up where there are so many submissions and so many deadlines to make. Would collectors pay more money to have their cards graded if they felt there was a much greater likelihood that nothing would go undetected? I know that is how it works in theory- if I send a card in I value at say 10K I must pay $100 to have it graded, and in return I am offered two-hour turnaround. I also assume in return for my $100 the card is painstakingly examined, but are the graders actually spending that extra time testing it for tampering? I don't know, but I think they are forced to balance speed versus accuracy as cards have to get in and out as fast as possible. Maybe one of the services could comment on this. Do they feel overwhelmed by too much work and therefore are compelled to rush through a process that really demands more time? Because if the graders could somehow find a way to detect these ironed out creases, these threads would not be necessary. On the other hand, if ironed out creases are impossible to detect regardless of what technology is used, then there is unfortunately no solution to this problem. |
#152
|
|||
|
|||
Questions for Doug Allen
Posted By: Marckus
....and to think that T205's in PSA 8 or 9 actually exist unaltered.... |
#153
|
|||
|
|||
Questions for Doug Allen
Posted By: GoSoxBoSox
"Nowhere in the Mastro Auction Catalog do I see any statement advising bidders that certain items in the auction have been subject to crease and stain removal. How come? |
#154
|
|||
|
|||
Questions for Doug Allen
Posted By: GoSoxBoSox
If the practice of cleaning and wrinkle removal is acceptable I would think a legit business would exist for this service. Imagine the sales slogan... |
#155
|
|||
|
|||
Questions for Doug Allen
Posted By: Frank Evanov
Merriam-Webster Dictionary: |
#156
|
|||
|
|||
Questions for Doug Allen
Posted By: Jeff Lichtman
Frank, but what fun would there be in it for the auction houses if they couldn't maximize their bottom line? I have to say that before these recent topics came up I was completely unaware that certain auction houses take a proactive stance in cracking cards out, cleaning them up, fixing wrinkles and corners, and sending them under their flag to the graders in order to maximize their grades and make as much cash as possible for the houses. Of course, I have never consigned any card to an auction house so I suppose it's not surprising how ignorant I am. |
#157
|
|||
|
|||
Questions for Doug Allen
Posted By: Doug Allen
First of all I would like to thank Jim Crandall for starting this thread. It has provided some very valuable diaglogue which is always productive. |
#158
|
|||
|
|||
Questions for Doug Allen
Posted By: JimCrandell
Doug, |
#159
|
|||
|
|||
Questions for Doug Allen
Posted By: JimCrandell
Also Doug, |
#160
|
|||
|
|||
Questions for Doug Allen
Posted By: Jeff Prizner
As a consignor in the last two Mastro Auctions with high-dollar cards, I can tell you that I was never offered any kind of deal to try to "maximize" my grades, even though I personally thought there was a card or two that was definitely under-graded. |
#161
|
|||
|
|||
Questions for Doug Allen
Posted By: davidcycleback
Whether or not one agrees with Mastro's practice, Doug deserves great credit for answering questions and his candor in this thread. Many in his position would have either ignored the questions, or not have been as honest. |
#162
|
|||
|
|||
Questions for Doug Allen
Posted By: Doug Allen
Let me respond to Peter's post and Jeff's comment.... |
#163
|
|||
|
|||
Questions for Doug Allen
Posted By: Peter_Spaeth
I predict neither PSA nor SGC will publicly endorse pressing out even inconsequential wrinkles. I believe PSA will stand by its stated policy which does not distinguish among creases, wrinkles, or wrinkles that (to paraphrase) do not affect the integrity of the paper, and that SGC will take a similar position. If anyone has a contrary prediction I would be interested to hear it, and in any case their response will be most enlightening. EDITED TO CORRECT SPELLING |
#164
|
|||
|
|||
Questions for Doug Allen
Posted By: Brian Weisner
|
#165
|
|||
|
|||
Questions for Doug Allen
Posted By: David Vargha
I love watching a train wreck as much as the next guy. However, to piggyback on what Greg said, PSA's selective application of their guarantee isn't worth dick. I submitted two cards that I had purchased on eBay that totaled a whopping $165 SMR at the time and that both had obvious globs of crap on them, naked to the visible eye. They were handed to a PSA employee at the Hollywood Park show who immediately agreed that the cards should never have been slabbed without a qualifier. After being jerked around for several months, I was given the warrantee equivalent of "Drop your shorts and grab your ankles" (We stand by the original grades). |
#166
|
|||
|
|||
Questions for Doug Allen
Posted By: davidcycleback
One result of this episode is that more people will beleive, or be more willing to believe, that the Gretzky T206 Wagner is not in original state. |
#167
|
|||
|
|||
Questions for Doug Allen
Posted By: David Vargha
Heh . . . Good catch on my lack of proofreading. |
#168
|
|||
|
|||
Questions for Doug Allen
Posted By: Solomon Cramer
A friend of mine sent me this link, I like checking back in from time to time, though I've basically been out of the hobby for about three years. |
#169
|
|||
|
|||
Questions for Doug Allen
Posted By: JimCrandell
Solomon, |
#170
|
|||
|
|||
Questions for Doug Allen
Posted By: davidcycleback
With art and memorabilia, if a seller intentionally omits material information about the item because he knows disclosure will lower the sales value significantly, that is unethical. Another way to put it is the seller is being dishonest to cheat the buyer out of money. If the hidden information is that he physically did something to the card that he knew most collectors will object to, that only makes it worse. |
#171
|
|||
|
|||
Questions for Doug Allen
Posted By: E, Daniel
I wouldn't think Solomon, assuming your description of auctioning cars by the thousands refers to modern cars, mass made and never to hold or increase in value. No one really cares if you buff and shine and touch up paint on a 2004 sebring, really all the buyer wants is as pretty a ride in good mechanical condition as they can afford. |
#172
|
|||
|
|||
Questions for Doug Allen
Posted By: MVSNYC
wow guys, you have been busy this weekend...let me first say that i respect Mastro's and have bought several high-end PSA graded T206 cards from them...here is what i think, for what it's worth... |
#173
|
|||
|
|||
Questions for Doug Allen
Posted By: davidcycleback
I once had for sale on eBay an inexpensive paper premium, perhaps a BB magazine premium. The premium was larger than any box I had. Though the premium had no wrinkles, creases or like wear, I wrote that it had a heavy crease down the middle. Why? Because I planned on folding it in half to fit into the box. |
#174
|
|||
|
|||
Questions for Doug Allen
Posted By: Hal Lewis
I think Solomon said it best: |
#175
|
|||
|
|||
Questions for Doug Allen
Posted By: Jeff Lichtman
Hal, that's interesting. I wonder which special clients get the "Mastro Special Treatment." |
#176
|
|||
|
|||
Questions for Doug Allen
Posted By: Jeff Prizner
I really don't think anyone who consigns slabbed cards gets any kind of so called "Mastro Special treatment." I think the press and clean was mainly in reference to raw card finds that are consigned and then submitted through Mastro. |
#177
|
|||
|
|||
Questions for Doug Allen
Posted By: jay wolt
JEFF - Thats a valid point. |
#178
|
|||
|
|||
Questions for Doug Allen
Posted By: Harry Wallace (HW)
At the end of the day, it does not really matter what "we" (the collectors) or what the grading companies say is OK. Even if SGC and PSA tell Mastros not to take out a little wrinkls and Doug Allen stops doing it (as he said he would), all of the other dealers are going to continue to do it themselves. |
#179
|
|||
|
|||
Questions for Doug Allen
Posted By: T206Collector
[We should concentrate more on the major types of restoration that CAN be detected. Trimming, coloring, adding paper, etc.] |
#180
|
|||
|
|||
Questions for Doug Allen
Posted By: barrysloate
I think the idea that things might not be as they should be may make people a little uneasy. These are new revelations for some and it is taking time to digest. |
#181
|
|||
|
|||
Questions for Doug Allen
Posted By: Peter Spaeth
I agree that trimming is a serious issue and I would like to hear more from Leon about the conversation in which Dave Forman identified it as a far more serious problem than pressing out wrinkles. In particular, how confident is he that it can be detected? I infer from his saying that it is a serious problem that he is not entirely confident, or it wouldn't be a problem from his perspective, but I would like to hear what he has to say about that. |
#182
|
|||
|
|||
Questions for Doug Allen
Posted By: Cat
Doug: |
#183
|
|||
|
|||
Questions for Doug Allen
Posted By: DJ
I may be going out on the limb here, but does the 2.5% increase have anything to do with the "jazzy" seventeen minute DVD entitled "The Story Of Mastro Auctions", narrated by PSA's own Joe Orlando, that came with my three catalogs? |
#184
|
|||
|
|||
Questions for Doug Allen
Posted By: Dylan Jasper
T206collector you said that if a card is altered and the alteration is undetectable then no harm no foul basically. Well by that reasoning if someone were able to produce a reprint that was undectable from the original then as long as no one noticed that would be ok too. If I were able to take a poor or fair card and reconstruct it into a psa 6,7,8 is that ok too? You will receive an abundance of what you put up with. And if we let the alteration of cards slide, card doctors will just become more and more brazen and the problem will only get worse. Most consider a gem mint card to be as near to "perfect" as a card can be. I wouldnt call any altered/reconstructed card sitting in a gem mint holder no matter how perfect it may LOOK to actually meet that standard, ever. |
#185
|
|||
|
|||
Questions for Doug Allen
Posted By: MikeU
Doug, |
#186
|
|||
|
|||
Questions for Doug Allen
Posted By: Richard Masson
I hear that if you throw a dealer in a pond and he doesn't drown, then he's a witch. |
#187
|
|||
|
|||
Questions for Doug Allen
Posted By: Jeff Prillaman
Richard -- you have that partially right -- if a dealer weighs the same as a duck then he's a witch. |
#188
|
|||
|
|||
Questions for Doug Allen
Posted By: Richard Masson
Here is what you will hear from PSA and SGC: |
#189
|
|||
|
|||
Questions for Doug Allen
Posted By: Dan Kravitz
Richard - Not sure if my emails are getting through to you. Check your spam emails. |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Anyone else see my good bud Doug Allen on CNN* ? | Archive | Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions | 12 | 12-25-2014 08:16 PM |
Doug Allen - CNBC Last Night | Archive | Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions | 8 | 11-12-2008 01:27 PM |
Jay Miller and Doug Allen | Archive | Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions | 104 | 02-29-2008 04:23 AM |
Doug Allen Did the Right Thing | Archive | Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions | 28 | 12-14-2006 02:39 PM |
Doug Allen Please Contact Me | Archive | Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions | 0 | 10-21-2001 01:09 PM |