T206 Young

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Posted By: PC

"super law genius"

Interesting. I like the sound of that, although some may disagree.

But Adam answered the question. Early on, Jamie made it very clear that ebay ended the auction.


edited to add: Dan and Eric and Andy (see post below) .. "exactly!"

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

Leon:

Neither. Cockfighting.

-Al

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Posted By: andy becker

i have to say that while jamie didn't do the brightest thing in the world by posting a card he didn't have in hand, he didn't do anything wrong.

the holier than thou attitude is jealousy, nothing more nothing less.

as a collector, i have asked sellers if that had a BIN price that they would accept to end an auction.

as a seller, i have gotten the request many times.....i even accepted an offer once and ended an auction......OMG, am i a horrible person????

what happened after the card was posted here with other board members contacting the seller is really reprehensible. actually that is so f#@$ing uncool i'm not sure how you can look yourself in the mirror. SHAME ON YOU.

jamie is clearly not the one who needs to grow up nor does he need to get over it. he got F#$@ed and by a community that he trusted (that obviously was mistake #2, jamie).

i got no dog in this fight, but that is my $0.02

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Posted By: T206Collector

...now, it is not as good as our resident PhotoShop expert's work...

...and it's not quite as offensive as utilizing the image of a terminal person with ALS...

But given my "expertise" in MS Paint, I think this is a pretty good job.

Ladies and gentlemen. Without further adieu. Captain Sarcasmo!



(The "S" is for Sarcasm)


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Visit http://www.t206collector.com to see a nice assortment of signed pre-war cards!

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Posted By: andy becker

paul,
why is the captain holding a big mac?

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

First the poetry and now the photoshop! Paul, you've had a full day!

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Posted By: John

Dan it’s not that Jamie is a bad guy, he just screwed up and posted on the board his super deal, then the seller gets the usual emails for better offers which the seller takes big surprise.

Then this morning he sends me an email accusing me of being one of the people who emailed the seller I have no idea who or where this card was even listed. Sorry if I’m not on here crying the blues to a guy who lost out on a card because of his own big mouth, let alone somebody who shot me nasty emails this morning for no reason other than I disagreed with him.

He also paints a different picture today as compared to yesterday…but since he deleted all his posts sort of hard to go back now.

Dan does that make sense?



“Oh, and I think I am going to start a Wonkaticket blog. Might boost traffic. I'm even bored by my own collection.”

Paul you should, it wouldn’t hurt at least it would be fresh…besides it might be a nice change of topic for your readers vs. how super you are!


"...and it's not quite as offensive as utilizing the image of a terminal person with ALS"

I heard a rumor he's pretty smart too that's why I used the image, although he doesn't tell us how smart he is as much as you do...the Photoshop is a nice touch but next time put a little effort into it take some pride in your work...think of the Photoshop work as if Mr. Carter used to own it!

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Posted By: T206Collector

Ah yes, I almost forgot....

The captain is holding a big, fat, juicy, 3,500 calorie burger of dripping, juicy, sarcasm.





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Visit http://www.t206collector.com to see how wonderful I am! (extra points if you found the sarcasm in this footer.)

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Posted By: T206Collector

"he doesn't tell us how smart he is as much as you do."

You know who tells us (a lot) how smart I am?

You.

But you've been throwing around the term "genius" loosely just on this thread alone, so I try not to let it go to my crazy-stupid-smart head.


edited to delete repeat sarcastic footer.

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Posted By: Rob D.

Ultra-shrewd collector ...

Webmaster extraordinaire ...

Poetic genius ...

Master of the graphic arts ...

Practitioner of the biting one-liners.



(edited to fix a typo. dang it.)

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Posted By: jamie

I cant even resist.. wonka ur so loud I have trouble hearing the guys who actually agree with me...out there..... its over in my mind.. but SEAN is a SNAKE who contacted a seller and broke up my deal.. what kind of a board member is this... he is a weak link in this circle of vauled opinions known as the board..

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

John, I sure don't condone anyone sending profane emails, but I followed the entire thread yesterday before anything was deleted and you seemed to take some joy in antagonizing Jamie. He made a mistake in posting that he had bought the card before having it in hand, but you chose to focus on the fact that he got the card in an off ebay deal as if there was something wrong with that. You completely ignored how Jamie said the deal got done. Why?

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Jamie, I sure don't agree with Sean contacting the seller, but I think the seller lied to you. As far as I know Sean collects Minnesota based players and he's pretty focused on that. I also doubt very seriously that Sean is the only person who contacted that seller when the auction went bye-bye...there were probably a crapload of watchers on that lot and there are more lurkers than posters to this forum.

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Posted By: jamie

could be true seller could have lied.. but he told me it was just one guy.. and I asked who and he gave me "SBDH"

So thats all I have to go on... again its over in my mind.. I got screwed live and learn..
Edited to add.. the seller mentioned this SBDH emailed ebay that he(the seller was now selling the card off ebay.. thus causing an email from ebay to the seller)... could be a line of crap.. but if I have to go with SEAn or the seller I would take the seller.. based on reading me the initialls of SEANs sign off

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Posted By: george "bulldog" adams

would like to say i am embarrassed for the ambulance chasers posting to this thread there was never a valid contract there was no meeting of the minds because the seller didn`t understand what he was selling. bulldog

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Posted By: Brian

I like applesauce

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Posted By: T206Collector

"you seemed to take some joy in antagonizing Jamie"

...and since he's done it to me so many, many, many times, I couldn't sit there and watch it happen to someone else. Sorry.

Doubt Wonka will ever say "lesson learned" about himself -- he's so busy trying to teach other people lessons -- but that's one he should really try to grasp, even if it don't come from me.


(edited to remove grammar flub)

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Posted By: quan

off-ebay dealing is the new wild west.

from reading the 2 threads sean is 100% in the right. he'd contacted the seller earlier in the week asking him not to end the auction early and giving everybody a fair shot. when he found out the seller'd received a lowball offer, he went back to the seller and offered more money...

oh yea to deflect some hostility off him the seller prolly made up that part about ebay coming after him for an offline dealing...and LOL at trusting the words of an ebay seller who reneged on a deal.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

The seller takes your money, reneges on the deal, tells you that ebay got on his butt about an offline deal for a card auction that EBAY ENDED and you believe the seller?

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Posted By: PC

quan -- all this happended after eBay ended the auction. The seller did not end the auction, and Jamie did not ask the seller to end the auction.

Dan -- according to Jamie, the seller did not claim that eBay was coming after him, but that someone from this board was going to cause trouble for the seller with eBay if he went through with the transaction (a big difference).

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Posted By: John

Dan;

First of all I wasn’t the only one who rubbed it in a bit wrong perhaps but no more so than bragging about slam dunking a seller. Second of all, I did nothing more yesterday than voice my thougts that I think the deal went down wrong; it wasn’t till today after the fact that Jamie brought the details to light.

In fact yesterday he asked what was the card real I replied, he said what’s it worth I replied, then he said good I just sent the seller $300 bucks. It was never posted that he had bought the card prior and was making sure his investment was a sound one; he asked questions as if he was in the buying phase not justifying an existing purchase his posts were misleading at best if what he says is true.

Then you will see quite a few folks who say oh well I guess I can stop watching that auction…and the downhill spiral went from there. I did nothing more than disagree with Jamie and question his timelines etc. and I did this purely from position of seeing it through other collectors eyes as well as mine. I have no dog in this fight and hell I wasn’t even aware of the auction at all LOL.

Then this morning I get this email to Sean and I that I’m messing with his money and I’m one of the two folks who ruined this for him etc. Which is total BS; I had nothing to do with this auction short of this board and disagreeing with him over what we have as a difference of opinion on ending auctions early. He just wanted to vent and I was his outlet funny this guy thinks I have anger issues.

Now today I’m suppose to feel sorry for him coddle him, and even not bid on this card because he really likes it…huh?

Sorry Dan that’s bizzaro to me, hope you can understand where I’m coming from a bit better. I’m taking the time to answer your question because I respect you I hope this helps.

Also ever notice it’s always some long story with these ended auctions, or pseudo ended auctions never just I snagged a great deal off an uneducated seller, kudos to me and sorry for those of you watching early bird gets the worm etc.

The world is not a sugar sweet place I’m not condemning Jamie and I’m not condoning who ever crashed the deal, but I’m also not going to be lighting candles for Jamie either he’s not a victim and whatever bad crap has come of this he has nobody to blame but himself.

Cheers,

John

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Posted By: John

Paul you keep saying you want to be done with me but you keep yacking, I think someone has a man crush....my mom always wanted me to marry a lawyer!

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Posted By: quan

i understand ebay shut it down due to authenticity concern or whatever...so why then shouldn't sean have a fair shot at the card like the OP?

imo the lesson here is at least try to offer a fair price so others don't feel missed out, or wait until you have card in hand before posting on the board. i would never interfere with a legit bin or ended auction but just an e.g. with the recent e90-1 jax by broadway rick that was ended early and sold offline for 14k...if i thought the offer was low i'd def. be calling rick and try to buy it for higher. it's a whole new ball game and i've learned.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

PC, these are the exact words from Jamie himself

"the seller mentioned this SBDH emailed ebay that he(the seller was now selling the card off ebay.. thus causing an email from ebay to the seller)"

Sounds to me like the seller claims he got an email from ebay over the offline deal. That's BS - ebay can't do a damn thing about an off ebay deal and they would never tell the seller who contacted them about a complaint.

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Posted By: Alan

Leon -

Time to lock this thread, too.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Well I don't have a problem with any single person on this forum and I don't want to take this any further

Moral of the story is to never, ever post a card here that you've bought if you don't have it in hand. It truly is the wild west in this hobby.

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Posted By: Sean BH

Sorry, I'm back.

Had some dinner and a Summit.

Like I have said before, I contacted the seller earlier in the week saying not to end the auction, because I wanted the card. Yesterday I noticed the auction went down before Jamie posted his question of the value of the card in the thread "Thread Done= the learning lesson of the T206 Young," and I contacted the buyer about what happened and said let me know how much you want for it. He responded it was pulled because of the 12 card rule and he was going to be graded...I had no idea that Jamie at the same time was talking to him.

Forward 5 hours (I was outside doing yard work and have receipts to show I was mulching), I saw Jamie's post about buying and having the card already shipped (which is now erased) and contacted the buyer and he again told me he was having it graded. I told him I hope so because you left some money on the table if you sold it, he told me that in two weeks he would have it back up on eBay from grading. I said great, you will probably get some good money for it.

Today, I received an e-mail from Jamie telling me that I purchased the card and had threatened the seller with threats of telling eBay if he didn't sell it to me (not sure why eBay would care or have any stake in the final value fees, they pulled the card)....well he didn't sell it to me. My hunch is the seller found out the card is worth much more than $300, decided to tell Jamie that he couldn't sell it because of my threat and it's either being graded or he sold it to someone else.

SDBH

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Sean, your story would sound better if set to poetry. And perhaps some violins in the background.

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Posted By: T206Collector

Man Crush? Man Crush?! P-p-lease. You're the one who's sweating me, dude. Seriously.

Plus, uh... take a look around you, man. You've got hundreds of little pictures of men all over the place.

I quote Bill Maher: "All right, it's time for New Rules, ladies and gentlemen. Ready. New Rule: If you need to shave and you still collect baseball cards, you're gay. If you're a kid, the cards are keepsakes of your idols. If you're a grown man, they're pictures of men."

Don't come on to a website (that's what she said!) devoted to pictures of men on cardboard and start throwing around the phrase "man crush" like you're not thinking about men all day and all night.




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Visit http://www.t206collector.com if you'd like to see pre-war cards, galleries, articles, my blog and more!

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Posted By: Iggy...

This is better then tonight's Florida Marlin game...could we hear Jamie's version again???



-Lovely Day...

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

I hope this card gets lost in the mail...


Maybe it will be back on eBay in a couple of weeks in a Hagar holder.

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Posted By: JK

Bulldog - before you go calling the lawyers who actually know what they are talking about (something you obviously lack) ambulance chasers, perhaps you should crack open a law book. The seller and the buyer had a meeting of the minds. The seller knew exactly what he was selling - a t206 young. He didnt know the value. The law of contracts does not prevent parties from making bad deals provided there was no fraud involved. As for the ambulance chaser comment, that term is used to describe a an unethical lawyer who incites accident victims to sue. Not one of the lawyers commenting on this thread solicited Jamie's business or even strongly suggested that he actually sue the seller. Get a clue or crawl back into your hole.


Leon - I maintain that the comment was factually wrong as well. While I understand your point, an off line deal is subject rules - specifically the legal rules that govern the formation of contracts. Hence, factually and legally wrong.

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Posted By: Jamie

I guess I mis-spoke before... about what was happening to the seller... who explained he did get an email from ebay on the matter but spoke with a cust rep and it was done as he said he was keeping the card... his major concern was selling the card to me .. me telling sean...and having sean go back to ebay and explain that the seller and I (and this is the key) were using ebay as a source to email each other back and forth in order to complete a transaction off ebay.... in which case can result in a suspension or who the hell knows what for the seller.. that is why he didnt sell me the card and is now getting it graded. to relieve him of even a 1% chance of anything happening to his account...

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Don't kid yourself Jamie, he's getting the card graded because someone told him it was worth way more than $300. All the rest is BS. There is absolutely nothing ebay could have done to prevent him from selling you that card after they pulled his auction.

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Posted By: john/z28jd

Whats the big deal about this card anyway,I thought these backs were a dime a dozen



(this scan is upside down to show the backs better,and there is a hall of famer in there too)

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Posted By: george "bulldog" adams

hey jk did you attend the university of phoenix there was no meeting of the minds the seller thought he had a typical creased t206 cy young with paper loss that would grade out at fair or good at best and he priced it at 300 which would be the market value for what he thought he had [maybe even a little high] that shows he did know the value for what he thought he had but he didn`t understand he was holding a special card with a far higher value due to the upside down back so there was no meeting of the minds he didn`t understand what he was selling and as for the ambulance chaser comment i stand by what i said because any lawyer that thinks there was a valid contract between blunder and the seller is likely the type of lawyer that would need to chase ambulances for a living. bulldog

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Posted By: Kenny Cole

"Bulldog," you are completely wrong. A seller's misconception about the worth of the item being sold is pretty much irrelevant to the issue of whether there's a "meeting of the minds" when the seller offers an item for sale. There are very rare exceptions, but this would not be one of them. I suspect that you are not a lawyer, from the University of Phoenix or otherwise, because you have no idea what you are talking about.

Your "ambulance chaser" comment just shows that you are an clueless idiot. In that regard, I suspect Josh's income is FAR superior to yours, as is his education, his knowledge, his ability, and pretty much every other trait. If you were able to read and comprehend, which I sort of doubt based on your posts, I think you would find that he never said he would take the case. Nor would he need to in order to make a living. The issue he was adressing was simply whether there was a contract -- and, based on what Jamie said about the circumstances of the deal, there was. The fact that you cannot understand the simple concept of offer, acceptance and consideration shows that you have zero legal training since contracts is a first year, first semester law school class.

It's great to have an opinion, but its even better if you have a basis for it. You don't. Have a nice day.

Kenny Cole

edited to add: please do not put anything in the NAME box other than your name. Adding text in that box shortens up the message text box.

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Posted By: DD

That's Dr. SARCASMO thank you very much. Wonka didn't go to evil sarcasm school for 8 years to be called Captain.

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Posted By: george "bulldog" adams

think it`s past your bedtime princess this isn`t about a seller`s misconception about the worth of the item it`s about a seller not understanding what he is selling both the buyer and the seller have to agree on what is being bought and sold in order for there to be a meeting of the minds as well as a valid contract and that is not the case here the buyer knew he was buying a rare upside down back t206 cy young card and the seller thought he was selling a common low grade t206 cy young card. bulldog

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Posted By: george "bulldog" adams

not sure some of these 'lawyers' would be qualified to fetch coffee for peter c. bulldog

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Posted By: barrysloate

This thread isn't about a T206 Young...it's about money. Offer a rare and valuable card for a fraction of its value and everything that follows is pure chaos. Pretty funny.

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Posted By: Eric B

Wow, lagality according to Bulldog is that if something is priced wrong, yet still in the ballpark (we're not talking $1 houses here), the transaction wasn't valid. Excuse me while I return my Ford Pinto and Betamax.

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Posted By: Kenny Cole

"Bulldog," it is rather clear that your brief stay at the Holiday Inn Express was not beneficial to you in terms of imparting knowledge about the law of contracts. I'll leave it at that.

Kenny Cole

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

1. I think some of the legal opinions offered above lack merit.

2. I am not convinced that the back is printed on the card upside down. I believe the card may well have been flipped over on the scanner top to bottom rather than side to side.

3. I understand that some folks passionately collect misprints like this, but it seems to me that there is a general over-appreciation of the value of this card. That has fed the frenzy in this entertaining situation and thread.

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Posted By: Alan

Barry - Most of the long threads on this board are usually about money.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kl2c9G1R_a8

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Posted By: Steve

Okay, Who pissed in bulldog's Cornflakes?

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Posted By: Craig W

always a chance the grading company will determine its fake ... now wouldn't that be interesting

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Posted By: JK

George - I'd be happy to put my credentials up against yours any day.

It seems to me that every time you decide to come out of your hole and comment in a thread on this board, its for the purpose of insulting someone. My guess: with that level of contribution, you won't be around long.

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Posted By: ali_lapoint

this thread needs some tissues

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Posted By: boxingcardman

The sufficiency of the consideration supporting a promise does not depend on its intrinsic value. Generally, courts do not inquire into the real value of consideration as long as it is something of legally cognizable value. The determination as to the adequacy of the consideration in this regard is left to the parties at the time of contracting and should not be made by the court when one party attempts to enforce the contract [see Schumm v. Berg (1951) 37 Cal. 2d 174, 185, 231 P.2d 39 ; Rice v. Brown (1953) 120 Cal. App. 2d 578, 582, 261 P.2d 565].

Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc