Braun Suspended for Balance of the 2013 Season

[HRBAKER]

I think voided contracts will stop it
Of course the owners would have the stones to do it.

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

There need to be conditions to make them voidable. Owners cannot just go around deciding they dont want to pay anymore.

[keithsky]

I laughed when he said I made a mistake. No a mistake happens once or twice and you learn from it what he did over a course of a couple years is considered a habit not a mistake. douche bag

[Wite3]

Again,
Voiding contracts for PED use might be problematic. The athlete can then declare an addiction which is a protected class and cannot be fired under the ADA as they are not "at will" employees and if they seek treatment...lawyers help me out here...

Many of the contracts now employed by the MLB teams and the CBA do allow the void of contracts due to moral issues including lying which is rather easy to prove because if you are using a banned substance when you negotiated (or re-negotiated) your contract, you were not bargaining in good faith.

It is very complicated and I am just a teacher but I do have some familiarity with some of the cases here and know a bunch about ADA, Hippa, and CBAs.

Joshua

[savedfrommyspokes]

IMO, Braun maybe the only suspension out of this fracas. It is tough to believe that MLB would want the PR nightmare of spreading out these less than favorable announcements of these image shattering PED suspensions...if anything, they would want to make all the suspension announcements at one time in order to be minimize the PR nightmare/fallout.

Ironically, they even announced Braun's suspension on the same day that England's newest Prince was born(an easily predictable event). While Braun's suspension is quite news worthy (for all of the wrong reasons), the story was completely minimized by the birth of the Prince. This is likely just want MLB wanted...it appears to be no coincidence that MLB waited for a busy news day where the Braun story could be buried by another huge (worldwide) media event.

Three of the names mentioned with this scandal included Braun, Cabrera, and Colon. All three have failed PED tests, while only the latter two have served 50 game suspensions. Likely, MLB did not further penalize either of these two as they had already served 50 gamers. IMO, without negative test results for the other players linked to the scandal, MLB will be hardpressed to prove anything about these players alleged use of PEDs or involvement with Biogenesis.

Braun was simply lowhanging fruit for MLB because he did have a failed PED test (that likely linked him to Biogensis) as evidence and had not served a suspension.

[ScottFandango]

Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes

IMO, Braun maybe the only suspension out of this fracas. It is tough to believe that MLB would want the PR nightmare of spreading out these less than favorable announcements of these image shattering PED suspensions...if anything, they would want to make all the suspension announcements at one time in order to be minimize the PR nightmare/fallout.

Ironically, they even announced Braun's suspension on the same day that England's newest Prince was born(an easily predictable event). While Braun's suspension is quite news worthy (for all of the wrong reasons), the story was completely minimized by the birth of the Prince. This is likely just want MLB wanted...it appears to be no coincidence that MLB waited for a busy news day where the Braun story could be buried by another huge (worldwide) media

Three of the names mentioned with this scandal included Braun, Cabrera, and Colon. All three have failed PED tests, while only the latter two have served 50 game suspensions. Likely, MLB did not further penalize either of these two as they had already served 50 gamers. IMO, without negative test results for the other players linked to the scandal, MLB will be hardpressed to prove anything about these players alleged use of PEDs or involvement with Biogenesis.

Braun was simply lowhanging fruit for MLB because he did have a failed PED test (that likely linked him to Biogensis) as evidence and had not served a suspension.

Dont forget about Afraud.....you don't think he really has a hurt quad ? Yanks dont want him and would love his contract to be voided...

He's about to get a lifetime ban.....they will announce that when the prince's name is revealed..

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Originally Posted by Wite3

Again,
Voiding contracts for PED use might be problematic. The athlete can then declare an addiction which is a protected class and cannot be fired under the ADA as they are not "at will" employees and if they seek treatment...lawyers help me out here...

Many of the contracts now employed by the MLB teams and the CBA do allow the void of contracts due to moral issues including lying which is rather easy to prove because if you are using a banned substance when you negotiated (or re-negotiated) your contract, you were not bargaining in good faith.

It is very complicated and I am just a teacher but I do have some familiarity with some of the cases here and know a bunch about ADA, Hippa, and CBAs.

Joshua

It has been a few years since I did employment law but here is my 2 cents. Frequently endorsements contains moral clauses. You could include that but it seems problematic. I think something a bit safer would be to in lude a clause that makes the contract voidable or reducable at the option of the club if you have a positive test.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Wite3

Again,
Voiding contracts for PED use might be problematic. The athlete can then declare an addiction which is a protected class and cannot be fired under the ADA as they are not "at will" employees and if they seek treatment...lawyers help me out here...

I don't think an addiction qualifies as a protected class, does it? I could be wrong. Over the years, I've seen several people that have lost their job due to failing a drug test. If an employer can fire you for a failed drug test, why can't a team owner?

[howard38]

.

[t206blogcom]

While they're getting better, MLB should make it a no nonsense, no tolerance policy. Get caught and you'll be banned for life from baseball, banned from the Hall of Fame, banned from attending a game, you'll have all of your awards and titles removed, and your contract instantly is revoked. Heck, throw in a rule that states you have to pay a $10 million fine as well for tarnishing the game's reputation.

I'm tired of these cheaters ruining baseball. Have we not heard enough about PEDs? Didn't Bonds and McGuire ruin baseball enough by breaking coveted records only by cheating? Now we have another round of big name players getting caught. They'll NEVER learn unless getting caught equates to a lifetime ban.

[steve B]

I guess nobody read that post I spent some time on

Basically, Some drug tests are prone to positives from things besides cheating.

So an automatic lifetime ban is not warranted. Even the WADA - A bunch of complete hardcases when it comes to doping- recognize mitigating factors and often use reduced bans for negligent use.

Lifetime bans WILL NOT STOP DOPING.

In cycling doping is common, even with a 2 year ban for a first offence and an insanely stringent testing plan. Pro riders need to file a whereabouts form months ahead of time for the offseason so the testers can find them. Missing a test is a positive Being seen by certain doctors is a positive.

And the riders still take stuff.

EPO thickens the blood. For a person fit enough to have a resting heartrate around 40 and also usually a large heart, that means a huge risk of the blood pooling in the heart and clotting, leading to strokes that are almost always fatal. A number of young riders died unexpectedly at absurdly young ages. Insanely fit guys that are 22-23 don't normall just die.

That's right- EPO CAN BE FATAL. That's as serious a lifetime ban as you can think of, and people still doped with it and still do.

Steve B

[packs]

I understand that levels could be inconsistent, but when you find a synthetic testosterone in a urine sample I don't see how lab error could come into play regardless of how much synthetic testosterone was detected. If it's detected at all that's cheating.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes

Ironically, they even announced Braun's suspension on the same day that England's newest Prince was born(an easily predictable event). While Braun's suspension is quite news worthy (for all of the wrong reasons), the story was completely minimized by the birth of the Prince. This is likely just want MLB wanted...it appears to be no coincidence that MLB waited for a busy news day where the Braun story could be buried by another huge (worldwide) media event.

What prince are you talking about? I don't read the rags for that stuff... It's sad that in many parts of the US, the birth of the prince was diminished by the real news about Braun's suspension. Holy COW!!!!

[HRBAKER]

Any time I start to feel swindled over all the vacations we provide for ALL of our Presidents I think of the saps that have to fund the monarchy.

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by steve B

Stiff penalties won't stop it. I doubt much will.

A few quotes from another sport, one that began testing in the 60's, and has fairly stiff penalties. And STILL has people removed from its premier event every year.

"The top riders are obliged to be fresh each time and they can't do that without stimulants. Nobody could or ever will be able to do that because there are no such things as supermen. Doping is necessary in cycling."

Rik van Steenbergen, a top pro in the 40s and 50s

"My closets now will be empty of syringes and prohibited substances. The majority of racers resort to drug products, and those who refuse to admit it are liars."

Dietrich Thurau, many pro wins in 70s and 80s

"I do not wish to hear spoken the word doping. Rather, one must say 'treating yourself,' and speak of treatments that are not appropriate for ordinary mortals. You cannot compete in the Tour de France on mineral water alone."

Jacques Anquetil, Won TDF five times in 50s and 60s

"In 1924, the legendary Pelissier brothers-noted as much for their brutal attacks on the road as their criticism of Tour organizers-abandoned the race over what they considered to be an unfair ruling. Pélissier, Francis and another rider, Maurice Ville, abandoned the Tour at Coutances in 1924 after Desgrange had not let Pélissier to take off a jersey as the sun came up. They were met in the station café by the journalist Albert Londres, who normally wrote about social and international affairs but was following the Tour for Le Petit Parisien. Londres' piece, reproduced largely as a dialogue, appeared under the headline Les Forçats de la Route.
"You wouldn't believe that all this is about nothing more than a few jerseys. This morning, in Cherbourg, a race official came up to me and without a word, he pulled up my jersey to check that I'm not wearing two. What would you say if I pulled open your waistcoat to see if your shirt was clean? That's the way these people behave and I won't stand for it. That's what this is all about." "But what if you were wearing two jerseys?" "That's the point. If I want to, I can wear 15. What I can't do is start with two and finish with only one." "Why not?" "Because that's the rule. We don't only have to work like donkeys, we have to freeze or suffocate as well. Apparently that's an important part of the sport. So I went off to find Desgrange. 'I can't throw my jersey on the road, then?' 'No,' he said, 'you can't throw away anything provided by the organisation.' 'But this isn't the organisation's—it's mine.' "'I don't conduct arguments in the street,' he said. 'OK,' I said, 'if you're not prepared to talk about it in the street, I'm going back to bed.' "'We'll sort it all out in Brest', he said. It will definitely be sorted out in Brest, I said, because I'm quitting. And I did."
Pélissier went to his brother, Francis, told him his decision and encouraged him to do the same. Francis said that suited him because he had a bad stomach and no enthusiasm for racing. Ville said he hadn't been part of the strike but that the other two had picked him up along the road. He was too tired to go on, he said.
"You have no idea what the Tour de France is,' Henri said. "It's a calvary. And what's more, the way to the cross only had 14 stations — we've got 15.[7] We suffer on the road. But do you want to see how we keep going? Wait...' From his bag he takes a phial. "That, that's cocaine for our eyes and chloroform for our gums..." "Here," said Ville, tipping out the contents of his bag, "horse liniment to keep my knees warm. And pills? You want to see the pills?" They got out three boxes apiece. "In short," said Francis, "we run on dynamite.' Henri takes up the story. "You ever seen the baths at the finish? It's worth buying a ticket. You go in plastered with mud and you come out as white as a sheet. We're drained all the time by diarrhoea. Have a look at the water. We can't sleep at night. We're twitching as if we've got St Vitus's Dance. You see my shoelaces? They're leather, as hard as nails, but they're always breaking. So imagine what happens to our skin. And our toenails. I've lost six. They fall off a bit at a time all through the stage. They wouldn't treat mules the way we're treated. We're not weaklings, but my God, they treat us so brutally. And if I so much as stick a newspaper under my jersey at the start, they check to see it's still there at the finish. One day they'll start putting lumps of lead in our pocket because God made men too light."
Londres had the best colour piece he'd ever written, although Francis claimed afterwards they'd taken advantage of his gullibility by exaggerating.*

*It should be noted that the Pellissiers were know for having an odd sense of humor, some think the entire thing was a put -on.


The earliest case in cycling was 1886.

Steve B

Steve, it's been said that as long as there is the incentive to cheat, the cheaters will always stay ahead of the testing methods. We may just have to realize that there is no way to ever completely clean up baseball. If they were able to reduce drug usage, the players would find another edge. I guess it's human nature. It doesn't make things any easier. I'd love to know that everybody was on an even playing field. But it sounds like a dream at this point unfortunately.

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by steve B

Stiff penalties won't stop it. I doubt much will.

A few quotes from another sport, one that began testing in the 60's, and has fairly stiff penalties. And STILL has people removed from its premier event every year.

"The top riders are obliged to be fresh each time and they can't do that without stimulants. Nobody could or ever will be able to do that because there are no such things as supermen. Doping is necessary in cycling."

Rik van Steenbergen, a top pro in the 40s and 50s

"My closets now will be empty of syringes and prohibited substances. The majority of racers resort to drug products, and those who refuse to admit it are liars."

Dietrich Thurau, many pro wins in 70s and 80s

"I do not wish to hear spoken the word doping. Rather, one must say 'treating yourself,' and speak of treatments that are not appropriate for ordinary mortals. You cannot compete in the Tour de France on mineral water alone."

Jacques Anquetil, Won TDF five times in 50s and 60s

"In 1924, the legendary Pelissier brothers-noted as much for their brutal attacks on the road as their criticism of Tour organizers-abandoned the race over what they considered to be an unfair ruling. Pélissier, Francis and another rider, Maurice Ville, abandoned the Tour at Coutances in 1924 after Desgrange had not let Pélissier to take off a jersey as the sun came up. They were met in the station café by the journalist Albert Londres, who normally wrote about social and international affairs but was following the Tour for Le Petit Parisien. Londres' piece, reproduced largely as a dialogue, appeared under the headline Les Forçats de la Route.
"You wouldn't believe that all this is about nothing more than a few jerseys. This morning, in Cherbourg, a race official came up to me and without a word, he pulled up my jersey to check that I'm not wearing two. What would you say if I pulled open your waistcoat to see if your shirt was clean? That's the way these people behave and I won't stand for it. That's what this is all about." "But what if you were wearing two jerseys?" "That's the point. If I want to, I can wear 15. What I can't do is start with two and finish with only one." "Why not?" "Because that's the rule. We don't only have to work like donkeys, we have to freeze or suffocate as well. Apparently that's an important part of the sport. So I went off to find Desgrange. 'I can't throw my jersey on the road, then?' 'No,' he said, 'you can't throw away anything provided by the organisation.' 'But this isn't the organisation's—it's mine.' "'I don't conduct arguments in the street,' he said. 'OK,' I said, 'if you're not prepared to talk about it in the street, I'm going back to bed.' "'We'll sort it all out in Brest', he said. It will definitely be sorted out in Brest, I said, because I'm quitting. And I did."
Pélissier went to his brother, Francis, told him his decision and encouraged him to do the same. Francis said that suited him because he had a bad stomach and no enthusiasm for racing. Ville said he hadn't been part of the strike but that the other two had picked him up along the road. He was too tired to go on, he said.
"You have no idea what the Tour de France is,' Henri said. "It's a calvary. And what's more, the way to the cross only had 14 stations — we've got 15.[7] We suffer on the road. But do you want to see how we keep going? Wait...' From his bag he takes a phial. "That, that's cocaine for our eyes and chloroform for our gums..." "Here," said Ville, tipping out the contents of his bag, "horse liniment to keep my knees warm. And pills? You want to see the pills?" They got out three boxes apiece. "In short," said Francis, "we run on dynamite.' Henri takes up the story. "You ever seen the baths at the finish? It's worth buying a ticket. You go in plastered with mud and you come out as white as a sheet. We're drained all the time by diarrhoea. Have a look at the water. We can't sleep at night. We're twitching as if we've got St Vitus's Dance. You see my shoelaces? They're leather, as hard as nails, but they're always breaking. So imagine what happens to our skin. And our toenails. I've lost six. They fall off a bit at a time all through the stage. They wouldn't treat mules the way we're treated. We're not weaklings, but my God, they treat us so brutally. And if I so much as stick a newspaper under my jersey at the start, they check to see it's still there at the finish. One day they'll start putting lumps of lead in our pocket because God made men too light."
Londres had the best colour piece he'd ever written, although Francis claimed afterwards they'd taken advantage of his gullibility by exaggerating.*

*It should be noted that the Pellissiers were know for having an odd sense of humor, some think the entire thing was a put -on.


The earliest case in cycling was 1886.

Steve B

Steve, it's been said that as long as there is the incentive to cheat, the cheaters will always stay ahead of the testing methods. We may just have to realize that there is no way to ever completely clean up baseball. If they were able to reduce drug usage, the players would find another edge. I guess it's human nature. It doesn't make things any easier. I'd love to know that everybody was on an even playing field. But it sounds like a dream at this point unfortunately.

[Jcfowler6]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/brewe...216852651.html

Just an article.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

Steve, it's been said that as long as there is the incentive to cheat, the cheaters will always stay ahead of the testing methods. We may just have to realize that there is no way to ever completely clean up baseball. If they were able to reduce drug usage, the players would find another edge. I guess it's human nature. It doesn't make things any easier. I'd love to know that everybody was on an even playing field. But it sounds like a dream at this point unfortunately.

That was pretty much my point. There will always be a way to get an edge. some legal, some not.

Many things currently banned were ok at one time, blood doping was controversial in the 80's and is banned now. (Train at altitude, have blood taken while it's rich in red cells, then just prior to competition have that blood put back in. - Instant improvement in oxygen capacity) That was relatively safe, EPO does the same thing but isn't.

The 1880's case in cycling involved a mix of cocaine, caffeine and strychnine. It apparently was neither unusual or illegal at the time.

In the 30's many athletes smoked, holding the belief that it would open up the lungs.

It's simply not stoppable no matter what penalty is involved.

That's not to say there shouldn't be penalties, WADA typically issues a 2 year suspension for the first offense.

Now if people want to retroactively take away awards and records......
Illegal substances are banned right?
And Alcohol was illegal from 1920-1933.
So I'm thinking a ton of records need to be reassessed.

Welcome our new HR record holders! Roger Connor and Gavvy Cravath. (Ok, maybe Gherig instead of Connor)

Steve B
(My edge in softball was being a swing for the fences pull hitter in BP, and a singles hitter to all fields in the game. I think it was legal, and worked great till people caught on to it.)

[BlueDevil89]

Comments from Zack Greinke on Ryan Braun this week as reported by Dylan Hernandez of the LA Times...

"The main thing is, yeah, he lied to us. He forced us to lie for him, threw people under the bus in order to help himself out and didn't care, blamed others for his mistakes and it’s just a lot of things you don’t expect from people...Everything was so convincing. He had people to blame. He seemed like a really good guy. He was a good teammate at the time. You don’t know the guys that he was pinning it on. I'm not positive, but I think everyone 100% believed him at the time. Especially the next year, he looked just as good as the year before. His numbers his whole career, Hall of Fame numbers. How could you not believe him? He was so convincing...Not even talking about the player. It’s just the person. Just the fact that he was willing to use anyone that got in his path. The closer you were to him, the more he would use you. It's just disappointing that a human being could be like that."

The players and the Players Union are finally distancing themselves from those who would cheat by using PEDs.