An Open Letter to the Forum - Re: Bruce Dorskin (suspended)

[Fred]

From post # 10 of this thread - by Barry:

"Bruce has a beautiful collection, I've seen it many times. But he is unable to get along with the people on this board. I've tried countless times to get him to tone it down, to stop sending death threats, to stop talking down to everyone, even to make a tiny concession and stop using "we." But so far I've failed miserably."

Let' ban Barry for failing so miserably!!!

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by Rob D.

In all fairness, Leon, I'm not sure it's right to leave this thread open and allow people to continually comment and take shots at Bruce when he's in a position in which he can't respond. He's been banned/suspended, so what purpose does more commentary serve?

Don't worry Rob. Bruce is taking notes and closing deals as we speak.

[base_ball]

Whilst I normally steer clear of this type of discourse, I thought it would be a pity if this thread ended without a single use of the word "curmudgeon."

[mdschulze]

with my siblings. Push the other's buttons long enough until they snap and then watch them get in trouble for reacting!

Since I'm fairly new to the Board I don't know of the history here with Bruce. From what I've read, I haven't seen anyone step forward and say that Bruce has actually inflicted any physical harm on anyone, nor has anyone been the recipient of a contracted hit intiated by Bruce. What I have seen is basically some name calling and childish threats thrown around... similar to what you'd expect to find on a grade school playground. Are any one of you really in fear of bodily harm being administered to you by Bruce? If so, then maybe you should contact the police and let them handle it.

I recently contacted Bruce with a few questions on T206s. I explained to him that I was new to the hobby, had limited funds to purchase cards, and that I was buying raw instead of graded. Bruce responded within 30 minutes and never once condemned me to Hell for being an inferior collector. He was very informative, did not brag on his collection, and gave me a ton of info. If Bruce was truly a bad individual, I don't think he would have taken the time to respond the way he did.

Can't we all just get along???

[bluebirds]

The Mods have it all wrong!! Just threaten to suspend Bruce(s) permanently if he ever refers to himself in the plural. That's REAL torture!

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by mdschulze

Can't we all just get along???

Sure sounds like a gem of an idea…and a big step to getting along with folks is don’t threaten to sue them. Also calling them morons and talking down to them with an elitists attitude tends not to help let alone wishing their deaths...

Just a thought while we all get along..

[barrysloate]

Mike-It's not like Bruce is being sent to Alcatraz. He is simply suspended from posting for a month- he can still read the board- and then he can come back if he wants, providing he does so with a little civility. That's not really so bad, is it?

And in answer to your question, nobody on this board has physically hit anybody, I don't think. Everything that has transpired has been in cyberspace. Bruce is knowledgeable and I am glad he was helpful to you. He can at times be very nice.

But since you are new to the board not everything coming from his keyboard has been peaches and cream. At times it has gotten pretty ugly around here. So I think a month away from the board is more than reasonable.

[Leon]

I just had this exact conversation with a board member in a phone conversation. I/we will not let anyone continue bashing Brucii as it's not fair and not the right thing to do since he can't respond. Consider this fair warning that if you do so your post will be edited or removed. Nothing pesonal but it's just not right and it's not fair. best regards

btw, I hate to lock threads when others might have something to say about the situation...other than saying anything bad, or attacking Brucii I don't see the harm in leaving it open.....again, please refrain from attacking Brucii at least until which time he can defend himself....

[mdschulze]

Barry, let me first say that I really like reading your posts... you seem very knowledgeable and you always carry yourself in a respectful manner. Top-Notch!!

I agree that guidelines should be followed on a forum such as this... I just wanted to share my one time experience with Bruce and how he graciously took the time to provide me with more info than I initially tried to obtain. I can assure you that his correspondence with me was not like what you see on some of his posts here.

I glanced back at the recent thread by Bruce: "Net 54 Top 100" and it seemed that there were a few members eager to start pushing buttons. There's obviously some history here between a few members and Bruce. My question is: since some of these members know what kind of reaction they can expect from Bruce, then why post anything at all that may set him off? Additionally, did Bruce just randomly pick people to start sending threatening emails to? I would guess that one or some stepped on his toes in the past(maybe in good humor) that started this whole ordeal... still doesn't excuse threatening emails though!

Bruce obviously has a unique personality but I don't think too different than what we encounter in real life (at work, at the store, on the road, etc.) I would like to think some members, including Bruce, would handle situations like these differently in real life instead of how they tend to get handled on cyberspace forums. May just be for attention, shock value, who knows!

You are correct, 30 day suspension isn't the end of the world!

FYI... I'm not here trying to defend or point fingers, just here to rationalize!

[barrysloate]

Mike- thanks for the kind words.

And you are correct that there is a history here. I won't go into it in deference to Leon's request, but this has been going on for a long time.

[autograf]

literally years......

[botn]

Barry you are correct. It was on The Net 54 100 thread in which the offending sentiment was written to Adam. Thanks for pointing it out. I had forgotten. So be it. The mods have voted and 30 days it is.

When it comes down to it Bruce does have so much to share but for some reason rarely does but instead ends up pushing people's buttons and rubbing people the wrong way and the class warfare begins. If Bruce comes back after this suspension I doubt that anything will be different though he may end up saving his threats and ill wishes for private email. I hope I am wrong.

[nyyanksghr]

Speaking of all this threatened violence, does anyone remember the huge fistfight at the 1986 National Convention, in Arlington, Texas? I'm curious who the dealers were. I was 13 years old and set up at my first National. Pat Flemeister graciously gave me a table at his booth. Somehow my mother was tricked/talked into taking me to Arlington to spend 4 days in a motel while I did the show. She was hesitant, to say the least, about letting her 13 yr. old into a room full of adults doing business. I pleaded my case and finally convinced her that Pat would be safely looking out for me. Within 5 minutes of us getting on to the show floor, an old fashioned fistfight broke out. I recall my mom saying "You are not staying here!" This was no pushing, shoving, fingerpointing. This fight was better than John Wayne in "The Quiet Man" I've always wondered who those two dealers were and what they came to blows over. Does anyone recall? There was another good fight in the lobby when the autograph tickets were sold out for Mickey Mantle bats(50 bucks each). Dallas was in a heatwave, long lines, not organized, and Wanda Marcus, the shows promoter, smirking, standing in the show, with a "I don't give a shit" look on her face. One of my best childhood memories

[botn]

1986 was before my time attending a National. There was one in Chicago in 2002 which resulted in an arrest. And 4 years later Anaheim was hoping with activity with a stand off right in front of me between Gary Moser and Daniel Desmond in which one opponent armed himself with a chair and the other with one of the poles which hold up the curtain around the booth. There is a joke there but I will let someone else take it and run...Later in that show I had a little "in your face time" with JP Cohen, the convicted felon who runs Memory Lane, in front of the Hilton Hotel. Ahhhh... the memories.

[Rich Klein]

And now that you mention it; I recall the fight but geez I can't remember who fought. Part of me wants to say Tony Galovich was involved but that can't be right;

I've seen a couple of classic fights/arguments at shows that I *DO* Recall the participants

1) Lou Avon and Mike Bertolini getting into an argument about who knows what at some NY City show. I swear that I learned new cuss words from listening to the two of them go at it. Best argument WITHOUT fisticuffs I ever saw

2) The Eskel Family and the Festberg Family getting into it at a Paul Gallagher show. There was a lot of rivalry with those two groups and about 1980-81 the rivalry finally escalated into a brawl.
Sago brought up a nice memory about young Mr. Eskel; who passed on way to young. He built that great collection despite, IIRC a very bad heart condition which ended his life before he turned 25.


3) The Shameus family versuw the Siegal (sic) family at a Parsipanny Show circa 1993. I was not there; but I heard that was a real doozy

4) Two autograph "plaque" guys going at each other before a show on a Snowy day in New Jersey at New Brunswick, NJ. I drove down in the snow; the show turned out to be real good AND the fight was incredible. I was trying to hold back one of the participants and he spun three ways and went back for me. The last really good fight I've seen at a hobby show

Interestingly; almost all of these fights were during set-up time

[Rich Klein]

Wanda actually did a pretty good job with the 86 National.

Yes the Mantle autographs did not go perfectly; and the Texas heat was bad. Wanda probably could have done a better job of looking concerned but I think she never realized what her facial expression conveyed to someone else. I know from all the time I spent with her children at those shows; and at other Dallas area shows over the years; that those two are among the nicest people I ever met at DFW shows. And you don't raise two people that well by accident (Pam and Randy)

In her defence (spelling just for Barry); she bailed ME out when she messed up with the Rangers tickets I had ordered. She realized the problem and gave me HER four tickets to the Rangers game so I could enjoy going. Of course, if I had known I would be spending 20+ years in Texas, I would have settled for a cold drink and a bar instead of sweating profusely that night at the game.

I swore watching that game in the Texas sun; that there was NOT a frigging way in the world I would ever move to that god forsaken state. Well, by 1990, so much for that

Rich

[nyyanksghr]

Rich- You are right, Wanda Marcus was an excellent show promoter and did a lot of good for Texas and the DFW card market. When I mentioned the "I don't give a shit" look on her face, it was as if she'd seen these fights dozens of times. That's what struck me, in my words as a 13 yr old, as "awesome". The bloody fist fight didn't remotely faze her. That game you mention, I remember it clearly. The Orioles were in town playing the Rangers. My first pro baseball game. Barry Halper was at the show with his briefcase handcuffed to his wrist. Alan Rosen paid me full book value, 50 or 60 bucks, for my Jackie Robinson rookie. I couldn't figure out why a dealer paid me full book value for a card. I figured it out quickly when PSA graded cards hit the market a few years later!

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by botn

And 4 years later Anaheim was hoping with activity with a stand off right in front of me between Gary Moser and Daniel Desmond in which one opponent armed himself with a chair and the other with one of the poles which hold up the curtain around the booth.

Gary Moser's name rings a bell -- isn't he a doctor or dentist or something like that? Why would a doctor be getting into fights at a card show? Health care reform?

[sago]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

And now that you mention it; I recall the fight but geez I can't remember who fought. Part of me wants to say Tony Galovich was involved but that can't be right;

I've seen a couple of classic fights/arguments at shows that I *DO* Recall the participants

1) Lou Avon and Mike Bertolini getting into an argument about who knows what at some NY City show. I swear that I learned new cuss words from listening to the two of them go at it. Best argument WITHOUT fisticuffs I ever saw

2) The Eskin Family and the Festberg Family getting into it at a Paul Gallagher show. There was a lot of rivalry with those two groups and about 1980-81 the rivalry finally mscalated into a'brawl.

3) The Shameus family versuw the Siegal (sic) family at a Parsipanny Show circa 1993. I was not there; but I heard that was a real doozy

4) Two autograph "plaque" guys going at each other before a show on a Snowy day in New Jersey at New Brunswick, NJ. I drove down in the snow; the show turned out to be real good AND the fight was incredible. I was trying to hold back one of the participants and he spun three ways and went back for me. The last really good fight I've seen at a hobby show

Interestingly; almost all of these fights were during set-up time

Rich,
I think it was Eskel and not Eskin. Robert Eskel was a quite the collector at the time, and IIRC, he passed away at a young age.

As far as Lou and Bertolini, that would have been closer to a sumo match, than a fight.

In 1981 or so my brothers and I set up at a show at Queens College. Brooks Robinson was the guest.

We made a trade with another dealer who took advantage of our naivete and ripped us off. My father, who was with us, demanded that the trade be undone. When the other guy said no, my father flipped over the guys table, and was ready to send him to the floor as well. The trade was undone shortly after.

[fkw]

With those corners it looks VG/EX to me, maybe VG+

[Hot Springs Bathers]

Rich- In 1986 I was one of the many people stuck in the Texas sun for hours waiting to get inside. An ambulance was needed twice to take folks away that had passed out just waiting to get into the show.

I believe I am right in that it was the local Fire Marshall that was slowing admission to the show because of the numbers already inside. I don't think Wanda had any control over that issue. She appeared numb when I finally did make it inside. She may have just been fed with everything during that show. The later National in Arlington went much smoother.

I will add though that my wonderful wife of 31 years waited in line for three hours to get a Mantle autograph for me at that show. THEN waited a couple of hours in the car for me to finish shopping!

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Hot Springs Bathers

I will add though that my wonderful wife of 31 years waited in line for three hours to get a Mantle autograph for me at that show. THEN waited a couple of hours in the car for me to finish shopping!

That's a good wife.

[botn]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Gary Moser's name rings a bell -- isn't he a doctor or dentist or something like that? Why would a doctor be getting into fights at a card show? Health care reform?

Better be careful the last person to write that Gary Moser's name sounded familiar has vanished off the planet. And I don't think Bruce D had anything to do with it.

Here is a great thread in which you can see it all unfold and more. http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...ighlight=moser

[Wite3]

I remember the fight at Anaheim in the mid '90s and was nearly involved in a scuffle when a friend and I were allowed to the hold the Gretzky Wagner and managed to hold another T206 behind it and you could see the borders
(trimmed!!--yes!!)...I thought Orlando and another PSA person were going to beat us to death with it before they grabbed it back and put it back under glass. I want to say that the T206 we bought at Mark Macrae's table. I will never forget that...

I also remember Mr. Mint getting into a few shouting matches over the years at Nationals but forget the details.

Joshua

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by botn

Better be careful the last person to write that Gary Moser's name sounded familiar has vanished off the planet. And I don't think Bruce D had anything to do with it.

Here is a great thread in which you can see it all unfold and more. http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...ighlight=moser

Wow, that was a funny thread. It would seem that Frank E disappeared off Net 54 after that thread ran its course. Maybe he was scared off by Moser's bad spelling?

[tedzan]

I've seen several show fights over the years....the most exciting one I saw goes back to 1983 at Tony Carrafiell's Valley Forge
Show.
Reggie Jackson was signing. Over 200 fans were lined up to get his autograph. An impatient dude barged in front of many fans,
and that started an altercation. Two big guys started punching out this intruder. Reggie literally jumped off the stage and sep-
arated these guys. Then told the intruder to go to the end of the line.


TED Z

[Rich Klein]

And somehow don't remember the Reggie Fight. The "funniest" part of the whole thing was that for the last hour of Reggie's appearence he was up on the stage with NOTHING to do.

If everyone had just staggered their times a bit; no fight ever needed to take place.

Mike brings up a memory I have of the 1986 Arlington National. Literally as the doors were about to open for the show; the lights went out on the show floor. The room went dark and thus more people had to wait longer in the heat. If you can imagine why Wanda looked the way she did; imagine the poor people waiting in the texas heat. In retrospect; someone should have realized with the line that water was needed and Yes it would have been OK to do so; but sell Water to those who needed it

Rich

[scooter729]

Here is a great thread in which you can see it all unfold and more. http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...ighlight=moser

Geez, that Archive used to stir up trouble in all kinds of threads! What a troublemaker Archive is!

[Exhibitman]

I had a classic confrontation at a show in Anaheim around 1991. I had a table at the show and a customer who was standing on the line between my table and the table next to mine asked me if I had a certain card (I think it was a hockey card for about three bucks). I did and he bought it. The dealer next to me got irate and started accusing me of stealing his customers because he thought the buyer was looking at his table when he asked me the question. He threatened to "break me" which was really funny since he was a little old fat man (as opposed to me, a big, young fat man). I stood up and confronted him and he scurried back behind his table and shut up when he saw I had a foot and 50# on him.