ebay finds that PWCC engaged in shill bidding?

[mckinneyj]

Originally Posted by toppcat

What's in the message header data? That should indicate where the message was sent from.

True.

Most (all?) email client readers have a means for inspecting the SMTP email headers. For example, with Microsoft's Outlook mail reader if one opens the message and then chooses "Properties" from the "File" pulldown menu you'll have the opportunity to view the "Internet headers". If someone can do so, or similar using some other email client reader, and cut and paste those headers here someone can decipher the path the message took and where the origin was...

[chadeast]

Originally Posted by cardsagain74

That is not true about the BIN listings.

There are still 44,000 PWCC bin listings up from their vault account. I clicked on about twenty of them (varied from typical 1948 to 1955 cards), and only two of those listings were no good anymore. My guess is that maybe those two were from people panicking and removing their item from the vault.

Also, I bought one card from them this year. Late June. And have gotten no e-mail or ebay message about this.

The amount of misinformation being spread about this rumor is staggering.

It is true. See how many there are now. They are dropping at a consistent rate of around 120 per minute. If this rate continues, they should all be gone by around 7:30 PM PST tonight.

1:25 PM PST: 46,424 listings
1:35 PM PST: 45,185
1:45 PM PST: 43,976
1:55 PM PST: 42,733 and dropping

[Flintboy]

I wonder if this news made Probstien sit up in his chair?

[notfast]

Originally Posted by cardsagain74

That is not true about the BIN listings.

There are still 44,000 PWCC bin listings up from their vault account. I clicked on about twenty of them (varied from typical 1948 to 1955 cards), and only two of those listings were no good anymore. My guess is that maybe those two were from people panicking and removing their item from the vault.

Also, I bought one card from them this year. Late June. And have gotten no e-mail or ebay message about this.

The amount of misinformation being spread about this rumor is staggering.

The BIN lists via the vault are coming down. Go to their store, click refresh a few times…the # will change

4:50pm 43264 listings
4:51pm 42232 listings

This isn’t people taking their listings down. Maybe its ebay…maybe its PWCC but they’re disappearing.

[ullmandds]

sure seems curious that some people that claim to have spoken to ebay told them this message did not originate from them...while others say the oposite?

Someone's lying?

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

I got no email from Ebay. Can someone tell me who the sender of that email is??? That is one way to tell if it is a spoof or not.

This is where the email was sent from ebay@reply5.ebay.com

[Carter08]

Jim Nonkes: I definitely spoke with a rep who seemed to know what I was talking about. I could see another rep not having a clue though.

[cardsagain74]

Originally Posted by chadeast

It is true. See how many there are now. They are dropping at a consistent rate of around 120 per minute.

1:25 PM PST: 46,424 listings
1:35 PM PST: 45,185
1:45 PM PST: 43,976 and still dropping

Yeah I see that too, but the claim was "all had been removed", not "in the process".

All we can do is see if they all disappear. It does look possible, but I wouldn't want to assume anything until you see it

[Jersey City Giants]

meant to replay to someone, fixing it

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

I did receive the e-mail outside of ebay but not in my ebay inbox, that seems suspect to me too.

Casey, who is the "sender" of the email???? Like the phyiscal email address it came from?

[Jersey City Giants]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

sure seems curious that some people that claim to have spoken to ebay told them this message did not originate from them...while others say the oposite?

Someone's lying?

Nope I am not lying that they said it was not their email. However, this was just a service Rep who called me back (I did not click the link in the email I went straight to eBay's site in the Help section as I was unsure if it was a real email or not - it took them ~35 min to call me back). She said eBay would not out a member (buyer or seller) in a mass email. That being said, she had not heard about anything so was just reacting to what I told her I received. Hope that helps.

[griffon512]

pwcc starts doing their own auctions outside of ebay. ebay boots them off the platform a short time later. coincidence? if you are ebay do you want a vendor using your platform to build a huge business and then use the brand name they built on your platform to compete with you? the timing of the shill bidding claim seems arbitrary without that context. there may be other factors going on outside of this but i would think competing against ebay is at least the straw that broke the camel's back.

[JimC]

A friend of mine just called and talked to his PWCC concierge, who confirmed that this is real.

[chadeast]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Casey, who is the "sender" of the email???? Like the phyiscal email address it came from?

ebay(at)reply5.ebay.com

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Jersey City Giants

Nope I am not lying that they said it was not their email. However, this was just a service Rep who called me back (I did not click the link in the email I went straight to eBay's site in the Help section as I was unsure if it was a real email or not - it took them ~35 min to call me back). She said eBay would not out a member (buyer or seller) in a mass email. That being said, she had not heard about anything so was just reacting to what I told her I received. Hope that helps.

This.....it makes no sense. Sounds more like a disgruntled card collector with an axe to grind. I had some experience with some of those on the PSA boards many years ago. They are out there.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by mckinneyj

True.

Most (all?) email client readers have a means for inspecting the SMTP email headers. For example, with Microsoft's Outlook mail reader if one opens the message and then chooses "Properties" from the "File" pulldown menu you'll have the opportunity to view the "Internet headers". If someone can do so, or similar using some other email client reader, and cut and paste those headers here someone can decipher the path the message took and where the origin was...

Deleted post since I'm not sure how those email headers work.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I am sure this was a carefully conceived plan:

eBay has a Board Meeting about PWCC:




eBay's outside counsel weighs in:



And the fateful decision is made. The Crackerjack Public Relations Department at eBay Goes To Work and crafts a press, er, release:



Those of us who've long complained about the blatant crooks at PWCC respond:



While those of us who won't buy from PWCC and don't pay attention to PWCC results because they are bull$hit receive the news a bit calmer:



Next Episode: The PWCC Empire Strikes Back

[esquiresports]

PWCC listings are being removed in chronological order - from newest to oldest listing. Anyone can run this check and see. Click on any new listing and it will show up as "no longer available." Refresh and the last 100 or so listings will disappear. This is definitely happening. Cannot speak to authenticity of underlying email.

https://www.ebay.com/str/pwccvault?m...&_sop=10&rt=nc

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

misread header data, ignore me.

[Wanaselja]

My friend received the email and called eBay. He was told that if he purchased something in the last 30 days he could return it and "if I was bidding on something now don't pay for it because it'll be cancelled". Not sure why they wouldn't just cancel the auctions right away but this is what he was told by eBay.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

someone at Lewis financing might have some explaining to do...

EDIT: just looked it up and that's a dormant domain parked by Godaddy. Curioser and curioser

That's me Scott.

[JollyElm]

Two things:

1. I can't believe how many collectors here buy things from these scum merchants.
2. If they truly become 'vanished,' what's going to fill up all the space dedicated to screaming about them every day on net54???

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

That's me Scott.

I edited my post to remove misinformation.

[hockeyhockey]

this is absolutely shocking

ok not really but glad they got outed

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by glchen

Did Rich receive separate confirmation from ebay that this email was not a hoax before publishing it in SCD? The folks who called ebay have said that this email is not legitimate, and Rich's article seems to be copying directly from the email with no new information.

From the article:

"She did confirm the legitimacy of the notice sent to eBay users via email."

So, yes, Rich did confirmation from Ebay.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

Two things:

1. I can't believe how many collectors here buy things from these scum merchants.
2. If they truly become 'vanished,' what's going to fill up all the space dedicated to screaming about them every day on net54???

1. and openly admit it
2. Dont worry we will find something

I didn't get the email but I can proudly say I don't ever remember buying anything from PWWC.

Since I have seen a serious lack of cards in this thread. Here is my favorite Tim Carroll cut card art work.

[bobbyw8469]

Now PWCC seems to be proactively closing listings out too!! Darn it!!! I was trying to get that Bird rookie PSA 9 for $50k!

[Stampsfan]

Originally Posted by esquiresports

PWCC listings are being removed in chronological order - from newest to oldest listing. Anyone can run this check and see. Click on any new listing and it will show up as "no longer available." Refresh and the last 100 or so listings will disappear. This is definitely happening. Cannot speak to authenticity of underlying email.

https://www.ebay.com/str/pwccvault?m...&_sop=10&rt=nc

Yup. It drops with every refresh.

I guess if you're gonn a buy something from the vault, you'd best do so quickly before it disappears.

[tessiepants]

I called eBay earlier today and just got this email:

Hello Kevin ,

Thanks for reaching out to Concierge Support regarding the email that you received about the purchases from seller pwcc_auctions and

pwcc_vault. We are more than happy to help clarify what has happened.

The seller is no longer allowed to sell on eBay. When something like that happens we remove all listings and bids. If the items show as being shipped you are still covered if you do not get the items. You can open a case just like you normally would if the item does not arrive after the estimated delivery date.

So as a high value buyer who has made a large purchase with the seller, we are notifying you due to the seller no longer being active on eBay. For security and privacy reasons, I am not able to tell you why the seller’s listing was removed or why the seller is no longer an active eBay seller. The email we sent is meant to reinforce our commitment to create a fair and trusted marketplace for all members. No action is required on your part.

However, like I stated If there is any issues with the items that have already been purchased and you need some help with buyer protection cases please let us know and we will be here for you.

Please feel free to reach out to us with any questions or concerns you may have. Thanks again for allowing the Concierge Support Team the opportunity to assist you.

Thank you,

Clark

eBay Concierge Support

[cardsagain74]

Originally Posted by bnorth

1. and openly admit it
2. Dont worry we will find something

I didn't get the email but I can proudly say I don't ever remember buying anything from PWWC.

Some of us can only aspire to have such blanket moral superiority and ironclad discipline.

Maybe someday!

[MINES_MINT]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

sure seems curious that some people that claim to have spoken to ebay told them this message did not originate from them...while others say the oposite?

Someone's lying?

No idea. I relayed what I was told. Someone in the eBay customer service department making a mistake when they spoke to me would not surprise me though.

[savedfrommyspokes]

Guess ebay has built up enough business over the past 18 months that they can now do w/o PWCC's $150M/yr in sales. Ebay is clearly in the driver's seat to dump one of their largest "clients" like this....their stock closed at over $75 yesterday, but was down 3% today. My guess is that it will rebound tomorrow. Ebay's stock price in March 2020 was around $30.

My guess is that this was not a move ebay could afford to make just 15 months ago.

[BobC]

Interesting timing, just got duplicate emails from Goldin offering free lifetime "vault" submissions if consigning to them.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by BobC

Interesting timing, just got duplicate emails from Goldin offering free lifetime "vault" submissions if consigning to them.

Got it also

Interesting timing and trying to grow their vault business.

Could be a double whammy for PWCC

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by cardsagain74

Some of us can only aspire to have such blanket moral superiority and ironclad discipline.

Maybe someday!

It's only in cards, life is much different.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

Got it also

Interesting timing and trying to grow their vault business.

Could be a double whammy for PWCC

Ya think? LOL

[NATCARD]

I just received this email from PWCC:
PWCC Marketplace


PWCC was shocked to see eBay’s email today stating that unidentified “individuals associated with” PWCC engaged in “shill bidding.” To PWCC’s knowledge, its employees have never engaged in any behavior that violates eBay’s agreements and policies. PWCC goes to great lengths to ensure that its employees follow eBay’s rules and PWCC employees do not have access to eBay’s bidding records or information.

PWCC is considering all available legal options in response to eBay’s defamatory press release and its bad-faith action to restrict PWCC’s privileges on eBay. PWCC has only just learned of these allegations and eBay has refused to share any details supporting its allegations. Despite eBay’s unwillingness to explain its claims, PWCC will continue to conduct its own internal review to ensure that its employees have not violated eBay’s rules.

PWCC is proud of the work it has done over the years to improve eBay’s own processes and to ensure that the platform is one that users can trust. These efforts went well beyond the measures that eBay takes to ensure legitimate auction processes. For example, PWCC worked tirelessly with eBay for over 10 years to remove the bid retraction option for buyers, eliminate forced return policies for sellers, and reduce the Significantly Not As Described (SNAD) window from 30 days to 3.

While PWCC became the world’s premier site for the sale of trading cards using eBay’s platform, in recent months, eBay’s increasingly competing interests prompted PWCC to begin the process of moving on. Today’s unilateral action by eBay simply hastens PWCC’s move to its new platform.

The new platform will be live on the PWCC website very soon. The August Premier Auction will still close on August 21st and the September Premier Auction is scheduled to launch on September 1st. PWCC is excited about the future, looks forward to launching all marketplaces on its new platform, and is confident in the benefits that will bring to buyers and sellers.

[Jcosta19]

This is starting to feel like when Jerry McGuire got fired.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[mckinneyj]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

Deleted post since I'm not sure how those email headers work.

SMTP mail grew up as a store-and-forward technology. A message can be handed from one system to another to another prior to reaching its destination. Back in the day the internet was much less reliable and so there needed to be a mechanism for delivering mail when a system was "down". A mail server may have other systems set up as proxies for it to receive mail should it be unavailable to accept it. Nowadays there can be numerous other reasons beyond system outages why one might want to push mail to some other system to be "stored" prior to it being forwarded on its way. Anyway, each system that handles a message signs it by leaving a record in the message's headers. So...

the headers originally posted include the following "interesting" received headers that show the path the message took from sender to mailbox:


Hop #1 - Received: from r145.reply5.ebay.com (r145.reply5.ebay.com [172.82.216.145])
Origin: Received: from [34.217.185.60] ([34.217.185.60:54049] helo=r140.reply5.ebay.com)

The system with address 34.217.185.60 belongs to Amazon's AWS cloud and has been assigned the name ec2-34-217-185-60.us-west-2.compute.amazonaws.com.

So it would seem that either ebay is using AWS and relaying through its own server or is horribly misconfigured and permitting others to use its system as an open email relay. I'll guess that ebay is actually using AWS and that this message really did originate with ebay on that AWS system. fwiw...

[buymycards]

Quote ) As one of the world’s largest marketplaces, eBay has policies in place to protect our buyers and sellers. eBay was founded on trust, and we work every day to ensure a fair and positive experience for the entire eBay community.
Recently, it was determined that individuals associated with a trading card seller, PWCC, have engaged in “shill bidding,” which is prohibited on eBay. As a result, eBay has restricted PWCC’s selling privileges and listings, effective today. eBay’s policies and standards were designed to ensure a trusted marketplace where our community can transact with confidence. If we determine that a buyer or seller is not acting in good faith, eBay takes this seriously and takes action. Our customer service team will work directly with anyone who has a question about a recent PWCC transaction [link].

eBay is the destination for buying and selling trading cards - built over 25 years with our passionate community of collectors and sellers, as partners, on that journey. Trust is the cornerstone of eBay, which is why we felt it was important to share this information with our community. We assure you that eBay will continue to take actions to deliver on our commitment. (Quote)

This statement from eBay is hilarious. It is coming from a company that allows tens of thousands of fake cards to be listed and sold, and from a company that allows bidders to have 100's of bid retractions, and from a company that allows scammers to cheat buyers and sellers of sports cards.

Shutting down one company is a step in the right direction, but they have a long way to go if they want to regain our trust.

[esquiresports]

If you go to check on PWCC's upcoming September auctions, the page is now blank - returns no results.

https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/curr...auction_id=168

[BobC]

Originally Posted by NATCARD

I just received this email from PWCC:
PWCC Marketplace


PWCC was shocked to see eBay’s email today stating that unidentified “individuals associated with” PWCC engaged in “shill bidding.” To PWCC’s knowledge, its employees have never engaged in any behavior that violates eBay’s agreements and policies. PWCC goes to great lengths to ensure that its employees follow eBay’s rules and PWCC employees do not have access to eBay’s bidding records or information.

PWCC is considering all available legal options in response to eBay’s defamatory press release and its bad-faith action to restrict PWCC’s privileges on eBay. PWCC has only just learned of these allegations and eBay has refused to share any details supporting its allegations. Despite eBay’s unwillingness to explain its claims, PWCC will continue to conduct its own internal review to ensure that its employees have not violated eBay’s rules.

PWCC is proud of the work it has done over the years to improve eBay’s own processes and to ensure that the platform is one that users can trust. These efforts went well beyond the measures that eBay takes to ensure legitimate auction processes. For example, PWCC worked tirelessly with eBay for over 10 years to remove the bid retraction option for buyers, eliminate forced return policies for sellers, and reduce the Significantly Not As Described (SNAD) window from 30 days to 3.

While PWCC became the world’s premier site for the sale of trading cards using eBay’s platform, in recent months, eBay’s increasingly competing interests prompted PWCC to begin the process of moving on. Today’s unilateral action by eBay simply hastens PWCC’s move to its new platform.

The new platform will be live on the PWCC website very soon. The August Premier Auction will still close on August 21st and the September Premier Auction is scheduled to launch on September 1st. PWCC is excited about the future, looks forward to launching all marketplaces on its new platform, and is confident in the benefits that will bring to buyers and sellers.

This could get interesting. Could Ebay have learned of PWCC possibly starting/moving to a different site and preemptively reacted?

[JollyElm]

Here's what we have so far...

"PWCC is being felled!!!"
"Wait, they are???"
"Yes, PWCC is being felled!!!"
"Are you sure? Seems to be some confusion about whether or not they will topple."
"Heard it first hand, PWCC is being felled!!!"
"But I heard first hand that PWCC is still standing!!!"

axemen.jpg

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by BobC

This could get interesting. Could Ebay have learned of PWCC possibly starting/moving to a different site and preemptively reacted?

I have no sympathies for PWCC, but that is most likely what happened. Ebay has a long history of cutting off their nose to spite their own face.

How dare you sell on another platform!

Oh, we're still making millions off you?

well.................how dare you sell on another platform!

Ebay doesn't give a rat's ass about bid shilling, auction interference, or any number of other things... and they never have. They've openly encouraged it without actually saying so out loud.

They're simply the jilted bride in this scenario, and being proactive and vindictive about it. Sadly, there's no good guys to root for here.

[Buythatcard]

It will be nice to see PWCC gone. They have tarnished the business with their suspected shilling.

Maybe, eBay can start paying attention to the other Sellers who have followed the rules and have been paying their fees for years.

We can get back to a nice honest business.

[taul166]

I just received an email from PWCC confirming the ebay suspension, so the action taken by ebay is true.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Buythatcard

It will be nice to see PWCC gone. They have tarnished the business with their suspected shilling.

Maybe, eBay can start paying attention to the other Sellers who have followed the rules and have been paying their fees for years.

We can get back to a nice honest business.

Not gone at all. Brentsy were moving to their own platform anyhow this will just accelerate things. As I said on the other forum (I think it was there) they are as resilient as a hydra. It's no secret what I think of them, but I would not make the mistake of underestimating them.

[Buythatcard]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Not gone at all. Brentsy were moving to their own platform anyhow this will just accelerate things. As I said on the other forum (I think it was there) they are as resilient as a hydra. It's no secret what I think of them, but I would not make the mistake of underestimating them.

Atleast they will be gone from eBay.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Buythatcard

Atleast they will be gone from eBay.

True that.

[Johnny630]

Teflon Don.


Can the VCP Gentleman please remove his sales from his platform ??!