Updated to 7 legit Doyle error cards....the rest are a Big ? ?

[Archive]

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

RED

I think this is the data you are looking for....this survey was conducted 2 years ago.


T206 Joe Doyle "printer's mark" survey....121 different samples.

T-brand.............Mark....No-Mark

Piedmont 350........7.........32

Sweet Cap 350......4.........42

Polar Bear.............2.........21

Tolstoi..................0..........1

Old Mill..................1..........6

Sovereign 350........0...........2

EPDG....................0...........1

Unknown back........0...........2
____________________________

Totals.................14.........107



With 121 cards reported, we have a reasonable random sample. At this point, I would say we have a better idea
of the relative scarcity of the Joe Doyle...."wannabe error"....card with the "printer's mark".

TED Z

[Archive]

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

I haven't seen the variation that you described. Do you have a scan of it ?

TED Z

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Posted By: Steve

Interesting, but then again all of Ted's threads are.


Steve

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Posted By: Ted Zan

STEVE

Thanks....I try to be informative.

Regards,
TED Z

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

I am adding a 7th legitimate Doyle to the list that has been confirmed.

Listed here are the 7 cards of the T206 (Joe) Doyle N. Y. Nat'l variation, that are deemed authentic (original). They are
identified here in their respective collections.......


1.....Senator Richard Russell (he acquired it as a kid in 1910).....PIEDMONT 350

2.....Larry Fritsch (acquired, circa 1980).....PIEDMONT 350

3.....Larry Fritsch (acquired from Bill Huggins in mid-1980's).....PIEDMONT 350

4.....Charlie Conlon (acquired in late 1980's).....PIEDMONT 350

5.....Private collector (acquired in 1987).....PIEDMONT 350

6.....Private collector (acquired in 1999).....PIEDMONT 350

7.....Private collector (acquired in 2000).....PIEDMONT 350



Whatever other Joe Doyle error cards are claimed, remain to be confirmed; regardless, of whether they are graded......
or un-graded.







TED Z

[Archive]

Posted By: Red

Similar to the problem that caused the 1958 Pancho Herrera, what if the NAT'L wasn't purposely removed and resulted from a broken plate or some other print problem? There are very few cards showing the extra dot. I don't know how many you will find but they also come like the card pictured which shows another print problem affecting the same area.

Your survey showed the extra dot on the Piedmont, Sweet Caporal, Polar Bear and Old Mill backs. The card with no dot has an Old Mill back and it's not going to be the only front like it when the Doyles are looked at again. If the Nat'l removal occurred because of a print problem, then why couldn't a Doyle Nat'l be found with one of the other four backs that you've found with the extra dot. How does the dot variation come with four different backs, and then it's considered impossible to find the Nat'l with any other back than Piedmont. You found 2 Polar Bear and 1 Old Mill dotted cards in your survey. Now here is a no dot with an Old Mill. What the heck happened or is possible is anybody's guess.

[Archive]

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Please read my explanation of how this Doyle error came about and why it is probably the RAREST card in the pre-WWII era.

The fact that my survey shows T-backs other than the PIEDMONT 350 that have this "Printer's Mark", has no relevance to
the original "Nat'l" error card.

Many Joe Doyle N.Y. cards were printed after the initial PIEDMONT 350 press run in early 1910. This "mark" occurred on these
cards because American Lithographic did not cleanly erase the "Nat'l" lettering from the printing plate of the Joe Doyle caption.
Therefore, about 12 % of the subsequently printed common Joe Doyle's have this "mark", independent of their backs.

I have tried to describe this entire process as clear as I can......as others have understood it. If you want me to clarify some
more, I will.

Regards,

TED Z

[Archive]

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

RED

Thanks for sharing that scan with us. I've seen many T206 Joe Doyle cards in my 31 years of collecting; but, I've never
seen this printing variation on this card.

TED Z

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Posted By: PatC

I have a Doyle missing the last dot and partial "Y" just like the one shown above. Since there are multiple copies exist, I know such printing error is not a one time error. I guess we should call it as "variation".

No one point out such "miss dot" Doyle variation last time when Ted did the Doyle "with extra dot" survey. I guess this "miss dot" Doyle could be even rarer than the Doyle "Nat'l".

[Archive]

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Can you please provide a scan of your Joe Doyle card with this printing variation ?

Thanks,

TED Z

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

There is a possible "8th" card of the Joe Doyle error.

This one was auctioned off in 2003 and is graded as a PSA 3 card. What is not known....is that this card
may be an up-graded one.

One of the listed 7 cards here is (or was a PSA 2); therefore, I wondering if this PSA 3 is the same one ?

Or, can any one here identify this possible "8th" Doyle ? ?

Thanks,

TED Z

[Archive]

Posted By: Jon Canfield

Ted - does your list also include the PSA graded NM-looking, but altered example?

======================================
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[Archive]

Posted By: JimB

The PSA 2 that Ron Oser auctioned about ten years ago that sold for north of 170k is not the same card as the PSA 3 that Mastro auctioned in 2003.
Jimb

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Posted By: PatC

Ted,

Red has already posted a pic of the variation above. Mine look exactly the same (missing the last period and partial "Y") I actually posted a new thread but no one seem to read it.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/thread/1232177404/last-1232177404/SURVEY-+T206+Joe+Doyle+N.Y+%28missing+partial+Y+%26amp%3B +period%29+-+-+-+4th+variation

[Archive]

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

You asked......

" Ted - does your list also include the PSA graded NM-looking, but altered example? "

No, as I haven't heard about this Doyle. Can you fill me in on this one ?

Thanks,

TED Z

[Archive]

Posted By: Jon Canfield

Ted - disregard my previous post. I was mixing up the Doyle and Plank cards.

======================================
For the premier online souce of information on baseball-related cigarette packs, visit http://www.baseballandtobacco.com

[Archive]

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

OK, our tally of Doyle error cards is still holding at 7....however......

The PSA 3 card mentioned earlier from the 2003 auction does not appear to be an upgrade
of any of the 7 cards listed here.

So, we have a possible 8th Doyle error card. The fact that it is Graded, we have found out,
does not guarantee that it is an authentic Doyle error card. Therefore, it remains to be con-
firmed.

Thanks for all your inputs here and I hope to see some more responses.

TED Z