New Hobby Find: 1863 Jordan & Co. CdV of Crossley

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Posted By: barrysloate

Yes, it was Graves, and he was very eccentric and far from a credible witness to the birth of the game. I believe he hailed from Denver.

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Posted By: Jeremy W.

After seeing your 1869 Nationals of Albany photo I guess I can see where your collecting days have stopped. It's just a good of place as any that I can think of.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Barry, what sort of things do you have left in your collection? Can you post scans?

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Posted By: barrysloate

Jeremy- 1867 Albany.

Jeff- I have no scans. I have some display pieces on the walls and some rare books. I've gotten rid of virtually everything else. Sometimes I think about all the great things I've passed along, and then I decide it's best not to think about them too hard.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

I understand.

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Posted By: Mark

I actually own the Jordan & Co. Wright today. So kudos to Barry for not hording.

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Posted By: Jeremy W.

There's something to be said for passing things along.

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Posted By: Mark

Except now I will be hording it.

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Posted By: Jeremy W.

kind of a bummer.

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Posted By: barrysloate

I guess in the end it has been a business for me. If I had kept everything over the years I would have had one of the really great collections, but it simply was impossible. Life often has other priorities.

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Posted By: Al Simeone

Barry,
You are so right about that last statement!!!!

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Posted By: martha

It is very interesting reading everyone's comments....imagine listing something on eBay and immediately getting numerous "Buy it now offers" for several thousands of dollars." Doing immediate research enabled me to know of the series of cards - I was just not sure of the name of the player that I had. Barry wrote to me after the stopping of the auction and assured me it was Crossley. To be quite honest I was never nervous - just wanted to make sure I had all the facts about the card. I had in fact talked with another auction house about having them handle the card (Barry knew nothing about that). Another ebayer was trying to get me to the best situation. I will give Barry much credit for being so exact in his communications - he has been great.
Now the facts about the card. It is actually owned by my future son-in-law. He was putting some CDV's on eBay in order to come up with a downpayment on a vehicle for my daughter. He was using my eBay account. After all the buy-it-now offers starting coming in we knew something was up with the card. He purchased the card from someone in Texas outside of Dallas. In the batch of photos (from an album) was this CDV. Most of the photos were taken in New York and the album was of the Ray family. The most ironic thing I think is that there were 98 photos and he purchased them for $50 making each one with a cost basis of 50 cents - the original cost of the CDV in 1863. Barry has now had the CDV authenticated - we didn't have much doubt about that - and we will be looking forward to the auction.
As to the discussion about Abner Doubleday - I also have the exact CDV that someone pictured in this forum except for the fact it has been trimmed at the bottom and the photo is a much clearer image without spots. The one imaged by my research was sold by Robert Edwards Auction for over $400. So if anyone is interested...lol.
If you have any other questions or comments I would love to hear them.
Again - my hats off to you, Barry - you have been great.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Hi Martha- glad you came on the board and shared some stories. As you said, some of this I am hearing for the first time.

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Posted By: martha

I knew you would appreciate knowing "the rest of the story"!!!

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Posted By: leon

Thanks for coming on the board and sharing your story. How could I have missed those things? I live in the Dallas area!! So did ya'll try to get them for any better of a price?

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Posted By: martha

Nope - Jason found it as a buy-it-now for $50. It was in a bunch of other pictures from an album that was pretty much destroyed on eBay. It was listed as a "lot of 98 antique photos" without individual pictures. Jason works as a 911 dispatcher and gets off at midnight....it had just come on as a buy-it-now when he got home and he purchased it at about 2 in the morning...lucky him don't you think. Makes me want to stay up all night. Of course one could stay up looking for those things and never have that happen ever again. I told him to just enjoy the fact that it happened once.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Now that part of the story I didn't know...he found the album on ebay, bought it without any idea what was inside, and received a major rarity! I have to tell you, there are guys who are on ebay all day long scouring for hidden treasures and they never find anything that good.

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Posted By: martha

Barry,
I am sitting here talking with Jason - and he said that when he got the pictures he obviously didn't know what he had...and was in his possession for 6 months before listing it....he was just hoping to get his $50 back...but he did think it looked like he was holding a baseball. Of course through this process as you know we have both become more knowledgeable....lol

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Posted By: barrysloate

It's a really great story!

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Posted By: Joann

Hi Martha,

What a great, great story. I have to ask one question of Jason. Thinking that these photos were only worth about 50 cents apiece, was there any time in the 6 months he had them that he considered giving one or all away, using one as a bookmark, or even just throwing them away as not worth the trouble? Heck, even using some of them as coasters?

It seems like there may have been a few close calls in that six months!

Joann

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Posted By: ramram

How were the names of these cricketeers obtained? How about the year (1863)?

Rob M.

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Posted By: martha

We are laughing about the coaster comment - Jason said no coasters, but he did think about putting them in the spokes of his bicycle!!!

Apparently there is much documentation about the cards - the number sold of which card etc....Barry had done lots of research so he would be the best one to answer those questions.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Rob- there have been newspaper articles found discussing the match, and the four players were identified in the article. We know what Harry and Sam Wright look like, and there is one other known photo of Crossley (which also includes Harry Wright and Henry Chadwick). I've yet to find another picture of Hammond, but we can identify him by process of elimination.

And while the newspaper article is from 1863, there is another very easy way to date this. Not only do we know the matches were held Sept 16,17, and 18, but we know the days of the week- Wed, Thurs, and Fri. If you go to a perpetual calendar, the only time in that era those days and dates coincided were 1857, 1863, and 1868 (a leap year). The first one is clearly too early, the latter clearly too late as both Wrights were involved inorganized baseball in other cities (and George would have been 21, too old for his Jordan & Co. photo).

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Posted By: Ken W.

Or you could probably use the Mayan calendar.

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Posted By: Jimmy Leiderman

Hi Rob, here's the picture Barry is talking about. (or at least the only one I know of)

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Posted By: barrysloate

Yes Jimmy- that's it. And it's a gorgeous image. It's a cricket photo with two baseball hall of famers!

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Posted By: ramram

Wow! Where's that image been hiding?

Rob M.

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Posted By: martha

Well obviously I am no expert, but I found that image when trying to research the card in an Early Baseball History book. As a matter of fact I scanned that picture to Barry when I was trying to ID the CDV. I also found some old newspaper articles from 1863 mentioning Crossley. One of them mentioned that he was the groundskeeper....hence the nice looking tan!

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Posted By: barrysloate

Martha- you are a very good researcher!

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Posted By: Jimmy Leiderman

There's an example of this picture in the Spalding Collection, not sure if there are others.

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Posted By: Ken W.

Note the studious Chadwick, never without his score book. Fantastic pic!!!