PSA 5 Evers....I don't think so....DO YOU ?

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Posted By: Steve M.

I'm going to stick my neck out on this one and say that the ratio of raw T206 to graded T206 is 50:1. At that it will take forever for submissions to dry up. Collectors may dry up way before then.

Comments?

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Posted By: T206Collector

There are about 1,000 T206 cards/auctions on ebay right now.

When you remove PSA, BVG, GAI and SGC from the search window, you get about 500.

So, perhaps there is a rough 1:1 ratio between raw versus graded cards for sale on ebay right now. But how many not for sale T206 cards are out there? And, graded sales are more popular on the internet for reasons already discussed above. So, the raw number is certainly quite a bit higher than the graded number. But 50:1? Well, if that were the case, even controlling for internet sale and sale in general, I'd say 50:1 is a bit too high.

Scot Reader would have the best chance of knowing the answer, given his ebay market and general research into the existing T206 population.

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Posted By: barrysloate

George- interesting point. All resources are finite and baseball cards are too. I do think there is still a good deal of raw material out there, so there are still a number of years left before that happens.

But let me share a story from the coin grading business. The early submissions of coins resulted in somewhat inflated grades that were not widely accepted by collectors and dealers. The coin graders soon realized they would have to grade much more strictly. As a result, coins in old holders did poorly in the marketplace, and had to be resubmitted to get a current and more accurate grade. And voila, a whole new batch of coins needed to be reexamined. Wouldn't surprise me if that same thing happened with cards, given all the complaining we hear over misgraded material.

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

"Incidently, I don't recall ever having seen a Net54 poster exposing another member's actual bidding #'s
on a particular ebay item. I realize that anyone can access this information; however, I don't appreciate
your posting of it....for whatever purposes you have."

Ted, first let me apologize for disclosing information that you weren't comfortable with me disclosing. Since the auction had already been posted in this thread, and the bidding is a matter of public record (unlike with the major auctions, eBay allows you to see who bid on a card, and where their bid levels were), I didn't see any harm in copying that information from the eBay auction into this thread. I certainly didn't think that by posting that information into this thread to help me make my point, that I'd be revealing any secrets that couldn't be found very easily simply by looking at the auction and trying to understand why a bidder might have taken the card up to a level that was so much higher than you felt it was worth.

Second, I'll reiterate a point that I made in my very first post. I agree with you that the card is overgraded, by one grade. I feel the card belongs in a VG-EX holder, just like you do.

It's not my habit to get into arguments with people on message boards, nor is it my habit to start trouble with people. I think you'd be hard pressed to find an instance of me starting fires on any message board.

That being said, the point that I was trying to make is that I completely disagree with you that the card being in a holder with a "5" on it is the reason why it sold for such a high price. You yourself noted that you haven't seen this card with this back in two years. I know that when I've been looking for a particular card for a long time, and an opportunity to purchase that card presents itself, I don't care much about what it's "worth" - I will pay what it takes to win the card, or lose it at a price I'm not comfortable paying.

Given the bidding pattern on this particular auction, I am hard-pressed to find any evidence that the number on the holder is the reason the card sold for such a high price. You bid high on the card, because you recognized the scarcity and wanted it badly. Clearly, so did at least one other person. That kind of thing happens all the time, at least to me.

-Al

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

The card sold at a high price because of a combination of factors...

Ted really wanted a Sovereign backed Evers.

I suspect the underbidders were bidding up based on the slab the card was in... buying the slab, not the card.

And thirdly, the grading seems to have been done poorly, unduly encouraging higher bidding by the underbidders.

The combination of the 3 would be quite frustrating to someone who only wanted the card. Maybe if the first 2 reasons only were present, and the card had been undergraded, then the situation wouldn't be as frustrating to Ted.

So it IS clear to me why Ted is frustrated with the grading on the card. I'm sure he'll bust it out. But the improper grading cost him money. I believe the underbidders were just after a slabbed Evers, and didn't know or care about Sovereign 460.


The day is getting close for a separate board to be set up, one where folks focus on cards, card sets, distribution, and the history of the game... a board where folks don't speak of grading, grading companies, population reports, set registry, and the like. When that day arrives I'll stay clear of the slab board, so as to not annoy those folks with my beliefs. It is nothing against Leon... I wish we could take him with us.

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Posted By: leon

Since grading is a major part of the hobby my guess is any place, anywhere, when talking about baseball cards, grading will be talked about. What's the title of this thread? I have already stated my feelings many times....I think grading is good but it's better to know the cards yourself....98% of my value in my collection is SGC slabbed....but only about 50% of my cards...What's a moderator/dictator/collector to do? best regards

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Posted By: peter chao

Leon,

Why is only 50% of your collection slabbed. Is it just because you haven't gotten around to it, or are there other reasons.

Peter

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Hmmmmm.... 99%+ of my collection isn't slabbed. I think I have 5 cards at the moment that are slabbed. 2 I just haven't gotten around to busting out, 1 I'm going to sell, 1 I'm going to give away to a young man... I don't understand the question "why only 50%" What is the "only" about? Maybe he hasn't gotten around to getting the others slabbed. Maybe he hasn't gotten around to busting more out...

I concede that many slab collectors truly know their cards. But there are some who truly don't. For those folks, the next step after slabbing will be a 'service' (what a good word for it) where they'll advise you as to which slabbed cards you need to collect (will they say 'in which to invest'?) so as to advance your collection (will they say 'portfolio'?).


Ask not, when are you getting your collection slabbed; ask yourself when you're going to collect cards, not slabs.

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Posted By: leon

The reasons for my slabs are, dare I say, almost purely financial. I have admitted I have spent, and do spend, more on cards than I really should. I doubt I am the only one in that boat. I like to have SGC give me their opinion on high value cards. Recently I bought a 5 figure card that came back as altered. I totally missed it with a 6x. Had I not sent it in I would have only found out when I was selling it as the next buyer would have probably wanted it looked at. I like handling my cards, fondling them (sort of), smelling them...and all that. That's why I like a lot of them naked. I am in the camp of liking the fact that someone I trust has also deemed the cards authentic. I do think folks rely too much on slabs though and really should get to know the cards more themselves.....Another thing is that in a slab I can handle the cards and not worry about dropping them or creasing them etc.....which is a big plus for me ...(though not as much of a plus as my dear friend Rich Klein....(inside joke)).....best regards

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Posted By: JK

Frank stated:

"I suspect the underbidders were bidding up based on the slab the card was in... buying the slab, not the card.

And thirdly, the grading seems to have been done poorly, unduly encouraging higher bidding by the underbidders."


Frank, that is just pure utter speculation. Unless you know the underbidders, you have no evidence from which to make that statement and it clearly underscores your bias against people who collect slabs.

If Ted had been the underbidder, I suspect you would have believed that the winner and the underbidders (including Ted - who's id would have been hidden) were all bidding based on the number on the slab rather than need or rarity. Of course, if that were the case, your suspicion would have been incorrect. Its just impossible, it seems, for you to believe that people who collect slabbed cards can be knowledgeable and base their purchases on anything other than a number on a slab.

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

JK, you specultate as to my speculation...

I think many, many, many more bidders bid based on slab numbers than on what they're buying. I base that partly on reading posts here. So I'm confident that the underbidders were doing exactly what I said they were.

But I may be wrong... Maybe Ted is an old fool, bidding away on lord knows what, and those guys who were underbidders were smart enough to stop. That's the ticket! Has to be. Seems to me that on average most bidders on eBay would be know much more about T206s than ol' Ted.

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Posted By: John

To be an ol’time expert card collector do you have to have a condescending know-it-all attitude as a prerequisite or is that a bonus??

Sometimes I can’t figure out who is more arrogant the guys who swear that all cards are trimmed in less in plastic. Or the guys who assume that anyone who buys a graded card is a clueless uneducated tool who belongs in the virtual servants quarters vs. sitting at the table with the rest of the birth right collecting purists.

Give it rest already, graded cards cost more than raw it sucks. And raw cards are still fine if you know what you’re looking for and or looking at. Some people collect one or the other, some even collect both, can we move on to a new discussion now.

How about fake Wagner’s on ebay for $10 there’s one we haven’t beat to death in awhile.

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

I stayed out of this thread a long time, and let ol' Ted take his lumps. But most folks seemed to not understand his frustration. So I was resting... but 4 dozen posts later, it's time someone attempted to explain that he knew what he was doing and has reason to be frustrated.

I'll go back to resting. But golly, in that 3-13-07 5:55pm post, in my second paragraph, I said, "I concede that many slab collectors truly know their cards." Did you guys miss that?

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Posted By: JK

Frank,

In that same post, you also state:

"Ask not, when are you getting your collection slabbed; ask yourself when you're going to collect cards, not slabs."

Quite condescending IMO. You state some slab collectors know their cards, but continue to lump us together with statements such as the one above or by ignoring the possibility that some other smart collectors other than Ted just possibly could have known what they were doing when they bid on the Evers and pushed Ted's winning price upward. Ignoring the possibility that the price reflects the toughness of the card and not the number on the slab tells me that you dont really believe that some slab collectors "know their cards."

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

I'm certain all don't.


This reminds me of what happens when you try to teach a pig to sing. It's a waste of time, and it annoys hell outa the pig.

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

Come on, Josh, you don't think anyone could possibly understand an issue as complex as back scarcity with a set as obscure as T206, do you?

Clearly the winning bidder bid $410 because he knows what he's doing, and the underbidder bid a few dollars less because he's a slabhead.

-Al

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Posted By: John

Back scarcity?? You mean they come with different types of backs???

Well I know my T206’s are real they all have the same brand back, from the guy I bought them from who found them in his grandfathers attic. That is after he found the treasure map, which led him to the cards in another attic, oddly enough.

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Posted By: George Dreher

Hey don't forget what was found in Honus Wagner's attic after he died.

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Posted By: JK

Oh hell, you mean these cards have backs? Im always so busy starring at the number on the front of the slab, that it has never dawned on me to turn one over.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

This Thread is degenerating into the usual "civil war" between the "plastic" vs "free-cardboard" types.

Let's keep it at a higher level.....I acquired this Cicotte for my Sovereign set at the recent Reading Show.
Cicotte (Black Sox guy) is tuff to find, normally.....and with a Sovereign 150 back is very tuff.

I purchased it in this GAI plastic and I think this card looks more like an Ex card than the above Evers.
However, GAI graded it slightly less than Ex.....which was to my favor, since I paid....wait a minute.....

I'll let you guys try to guess what it cost me ?






TED Z collection

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Posted By: Dave

$190

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Posted By: George Dreher

I'll guess $200. It would be a steal at that price.

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

That's an interesting question, because in this case I think it's entirely possible that the holder could have had an impact on the price, in a way that was favorable to you as the buyer. Over the last year or so, I've noticed cards in GAI holders selling for well below market value in a lot of cases.

On the other hand it is a nice card with a tough back, and a desirable player. I'd say you got it for $275.

-Al

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Posted By: Dave

Al, thats what played into the price I had said at $190 was the holder....otherwise I would have put it at $250-$275 range.

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Posted By: Steve M.

I agree with Al and Dave $250 to $275. Trend to the high side of that range.

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Posted By: Dave

I would say $250-275 in a PSA or SGC holder...would you pay that much for the card in a GAI holder though?

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Posted By: Dave

I believe the last one auctioned in a GAI 4.5 holder went for $181 and some change...albeit probably didn't have that back.

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Posted By: Steve M.

I would buy the card, not the holder.

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Posted By: Dave

I understand buying the card and not the holder..a nice looking PSA 4 Cicotte or a nice looking SGC 50. For me anyway...with GAI it wouldn't be about buying the holder..the holder would actually hold me back..

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Posted By: Steve M.

the card pictured would easily cross-over to a PSA 4 or SGC 50. May even be lucky enough to get a 5 or 60. With that I would have no problem paying $275.00 for the card.

Ted?

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Posted By: T206Collector

Given that GAI is a more permissive grader of T206 cards than PSA and SGC, I suspect there is a reason that GAI did not go to 5 on this one. I also have never had a 'tweener GAI bumped up by SGC in a crossover. My feeling is this card has a wrinkle that is hard to see -- and definitely not visible in the scan.

It probably cost Ted about $185....

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Posted By: Frank Evanov

Given GAI's poor track record, I would say $150 for that one. Any paper loss on the top border?

Frank

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

$80, US currency....

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

At 215, I think most would agree it was a nice purchase.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

After reviewing all the responses in this thread (some 80+ posts), I have these observations....

1....By a factor of 12-1, agreed that the Evers card was overgraded by PSA

2....But, according to most of you, the 410 I paid for it is about right

3....Many agree that the Cicotte card is undergraded

4....But, you Graded card guys guess its purchase price to be only 150 - 275

Given that both these cards have Sovereign backs....and, one is a highly sought after Black Sox
player....while, the other is a HOFer and a T206 "super-print"....can you "Graded Guys" explain
to me why you are saying that the Cicotte should be approx. 1/2 the value of the Evers ?

This does not make any logical sense, guys.

And, I will not accept the argument that the Cicotte is graded by an "inferior" Grading Co (GAI).
Basically, all Grading Company's are the same.....it's the "human factor" that differs.

However.....
T206Collector says...."Given that GAI is a more permissive grader of T206 cards than PSA and SGC".
Is that a commonly held opinion by most of you ? I don't understand that statement ?

Finally, in this hobby you WIN some, and you LOSE some....
I won with the Cicotte card and I lost with the Evers card.

T-Rex TED

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Posted By: barrysloate

Ted- I don't feel you completely lost on the Evers card, because you wanted it for your set and you got it. That is worth something.

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Posted By: T206Collector

"I will not accept the argument that the Cicotte is graded by an "inferior" Grading Co (GAI)."

Then you do not accept logic.

GAI 5's sell for less than PSA 5's. There is no one else on this Board that would disagree with that statement.

Moreover, here's the last GAI 4.5 Cicotte that sold on ebay --- $181.00.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150022660866

Why would yours sell for more than twice that? Because of a Sovereign back? I doubt that.

Indeed, this Evers, off-center top to bottom, with evidence of some back damage was a PSA 5 that sold for $415 in November on ebay -- with a common Piedmont back. How can yours be considered over priced in comparison to this one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170051373599

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

I understand some of your points, Ted, but there are a couple of variables here.

First and foremost, you bought the Evers in a public auction with a huge viewing audience. You bout the Cicotte at a regional card show from a dealer table. You didn't have to bid against people in a 7-day auction for the Cicotte. The collecting public did not set the value of the it the way they did for the Evers.

Second, Evers is a Hall of Famer and Cicotte is not. While I understand the appeal of a Black Sox player, I would bet there are more HOF collectors than Black Sox collectors.

Third, all grading companies most definitely are not the same. When I see an important card that's not in an SGC or PSA holder, I automatically question WHY it's not in an SGC or PSA holder, unless the card is raw and offered by a seller that I trust or by a collector that I know collects raw cards. If a graded card is not in an SGC or PSA holder, I assume there's a reason.

$215 is a very nice price for the Cicotte. I wouldn't have bought it, though. From the T206 set, I only buy HOFers, and usually not in EX condition - I generally stick with cards that are slightly lower-grade than that from a popular set like T206.

The good thing about collecting sets, I think, is that if you're patient you can get good deals on a majority of the cards, that enable you to overpay for others without having it affect your overall cost too badly.

-Al

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Posted By: Dave

I definately agree not all card graders are the same. I'm a PSA guy, that hasn't been a secret. I would also however buy from SGC...because "generally" speaking they will usually cross over for me. GAI, I've never had them cross over...in fact the three GAI cards I submitted to PSA all came back trimmed after being encased in GAI slabs. That definately plays a factor in what GAI cards sell for...and is the reason that Cicotte that would go for $175-$200 in a GAI holder would go for $275-$300 in a PSA or even SGC holder.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

In the past 6 years, I have had PSA rejected "Evidence of Trimmed" (EoT) cards get graded by SGC.
And, SGC (EoT) rejected cards graded by PSA....And GAI (EoT) rejected cards graded by both PSA
and SGC.

It is just one big "musical card" game being played here; and, you wonder why us guys, who aren't
ardent supporters of the Grading card industry, are critical of it.

TED Z

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

PAUL

I have two responses to your comments.

1st.....you said:

"Then you do not accept logic."

"GAI 5's sell for less than PSA 5's. There is no one else on this Board that would disagree with
that statement."

"Moreover, here's the last GAI 4.5 Cicotte that sold on ebay --- $181.00."


OK....explain this current Cicotte (Sov back) on ebay selling for $700....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250077225081

Is he posted for more than 3 X what I paid for mine since he was graded by PSA, instead of GAI ?

Are you guys (since your above statement seems to speak for all) going to tell me that GAI is that
inferior (to PSA and SGC), that it's graded cards sell for 1/3 the value of the other Grading Co. ?

If so.....this Graded card business is in big trouble going forward. Fluctuations in prices such as
this, as a function of Grading Cos....does not bode well for this industry.

2nd.....

The Evers link......this card is not a typical of what Ever usually sells for. I have followed this seller,
and his BIN prices are considerably higher than what similar cards go for on ebay or at Shows.

TED Z

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Posted By: Dave

For one...if he gets $700 for that card I'll be shocked...it's not a $700 card. Is it hard to hide the fact though Ted that graded cards do command a premium...and GAI is at the tail end of the money machine. Of course your going to find examples of each company rejecting the grades of others...GAI included. Still, the facts are the facts...your going to get GAI cards cheaper than you are PSA or SGC overall.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

I appreciate what you are saying......and, I guess I was lucky finding Cicotte in a GAI plastic.

I have "freed" Mr Cicotte from the GAI plastic and I am very pleased to tell you that this card
is in EX+ condition.

He is now in a 15-page plastic sheet next to Chesbro in the 150 Series section in my Sovereign
set album.

TED Z

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Posted By: RC

Ted

For a newcomer to the forum, this has been quite the topic to follow.
As far as grading of cards, it is obvious how big it is today compared to when I last collected, early '80's. Can't say that I like it because it appears prices are much higher, but on the flip side, a novice can be much more confident in his/her purchase when buying a graded card.

Do you have a link or scans to your cards? Would love to see them.

RC

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Posted By: T206Collector

Ted,

I am a little surprised by your posts. If you give some of the concepts you are arguing about a little more thought, I think you will see that your reasoning is seriously flawed.

"Explain this current Cicotte (Sov back) on ebay selling for $700....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250077225081

Is he posted for more than 3 X what I paid for mine since he was graded by PSA, instead of GAI ?"

An untriggered BIN as a relevant sale is totally irrelevant. As Dave said, the seller will not get that price, unless a rogue collector goes for it without regard to condition and value. This price is not being set by the market, but by a seller hoping he can get way above-market for this card.

"This Graded card business is in big trouble going forward."

Your theory that grading is in trouble because GAI is less respected than PSA or SGC is irrational. If I start Paul's Lame-Ass Grading company tomorrow, and give your Cicotte an 8, do you think anyone will pay PSA 8 prices for it? People pay for grading consistency and value. GAI has neither.

"This card is not a typical of what Evers usually sells for."

While there are fluctuations in every card's value, and this card can be found with a common back in the low to mid-$300 range, here are three additional sales in the past 9 months, all with common backs, that sold at or above your price threshold:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150093588667
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250064727221
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8828374526

"I guess I was lucky finding Cicotte in a GAI plastic. I have 'freed' Mr Cicotte from the GAI plastic and I am very pleased to tell you that this card
is in EX+ condition."

You will have a huge amount of trouble convincing anybody who follows GAI graded cards that a card they slabbed as a 4.5 is, in actuality, EX+ condition. Again, I suspect you have not seen the wrinkle keeping it from a 5. Those of us with significant experience trying to cross GAI cards into SGC holders have routinely found that GAI is over grading its cards, not undergrading them. If you sell the card as EX+, and SGC or PSA grade it a 4, you will have very disappointed buyers. This is precisely why people like purchasing cards like your Evers in graded form -- to avoid disappointment based on a seller's representation, which, though well-intended and honest, is not entirely accurate.

Paul

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Posted By: T206Collector

I do want to add that there really is nothing to the grading vs. raw debate. I 100% respect the ideals of the collectors like Frank and Ted who crack open the cases of their PSA, SGC and GAI cards to slot the cards into sheets or whatever. That takes a lot of class and, frankly, a pure joy of the card itself.

But I think it is important to recognize that, myself as an example, I have a pure joy of collecting baseball cards, too. My reason for purchasing graded cards over the internet and then not cracking them out is purely a function of obtaining the most objective information about a potential acquisition as possible and then, having obtained the card, keeping it in the most valuable form as possible for possible sale or trade down the road. In my opinion, (a) someone that purchases cards over the internet that are not graded runs a huge risk of disappointment based on a seller's representations and a .jpeg scan that cannot show you the true nature of the card's condition; and (b) if you purchase a graded card and then crack it out of its case, you are essentially moving a large part of the value for that card from the resale value to the joy you receive from cracking it out and placing it in a plastic sheet. I simply get joy putting my SGC cards into my SGC boxes and, thankfully, that practice also retains the resale value of the card.

Of course, if you buy GAI 4.5's and are able to convince potential buyers that the card is really EX+, then you might actually make a profit -- it is not always against one's financial interest to crack out cards. Indeed, quite the opposite is often true.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

PAUL.....you amaze me....you are no where near where I live, yet you keep telling me about
this "mysterious, creepy, crawly, wrinkle" in my card.

I will repeat....the Cicotte card now exists removed from its former plastic encapsulation; and,
I have very closely looked at it under magnification. And, it is a clean Ex+ card. If you cannot
accept this fact, then there is no-way I am going to convince you.

Why do you find this impossible ? I have cracked open 100's of cards from their plastics.
And, I have seen card conditions all over the place. If you are going to tell me that there is
consistency in the Grading Industry, then you are only fooling yourself....you certainly are
not fooling me.

TED Z

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Posted By: T206Collector

You're absolutely right -- I have no idea what is wrong with that Cicotte. Just because GAI routinely overgrades cards does not mean that in this instance they didn't undergrade the card. Since it is cracked out, the only thing a future buyer will be able to go on is your view of the card.

In my experience, GAI gives 'tweener grades -- 4.5 is a grade that is not recognized by SGC or PSA -- in situations where SGC or PSA would stick with a 4 or lower. I have not seen many -- if any -- that have received a bump up from a 'tweener GAI from either SGC or PSA. Yet, here we have a Cicotte that you would bump to a 5.5. If that's the case, congratulations -- you did very well. All I am saying is that you will have a hard time convincing a potential purchaser that your GAI 4.5 is really EX+. Sellers try to do this all the time on ebay, and their puffery is usually unrewarded by potential buyers.

I could try to sell this Devlin as VG-EX, because the 3 sets of spider wrinkles are hard to see in a scan and the card looks beautiful -- but SGC's 30 signals to the buyer that there is something going on that the scan doesn't show:

http://www.sgccardregistry.com/images.asp?cardid=28217&usetid=1015

Finally, based on your statements, I believe your feelings about grading card consistency are based on the substantial differences between how you define a card's grade and how PSA/SGC would. It is precisely this substantial difference which makes 3rd-party grading so important -- again, especially because of the inability to inspect cards first hand on ebay.

"If you are going to tell me that there is consistency in the Grading Industry, then you are only fooling yourself....you certainly are
not fooling me."

There is much more consistency in the grading industry than in the absence of the grading industry. And, frankly, I am telling you there is less consistency with GAI than with PSA or SGC, though, again, the only company I trust for consistency of grading is SGC.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

I really hate to ask you this question.....but, I am going to, anyhow.....how did you collect BB cards,
prior to the advent of the card Grading industry ?

You stated....
"Since it is cracked out, the only thing a future buyer will be able to go on is your view of the card."

This is pure "hogwash"....it's not the way the game is played in the real world. The buyer looks closely
at the card he is interested in, and between us we arrive at a pretty accurate assement of its grade.
I don't know why I have to tell you this, it's obvious. I've been operating this way going back to the late
1970's.

But, if you are worried that I might "force" my Ex+ grade of this card on some unsuspecting buyer, then let
me allay your fears.....this card is in my collection to stay, along with the almost 400 other Sovereign T206's.

TED Z

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Posted By: T206Collector

You said on March 13 in this thread:

"I certainly won't risk buying an un-graded card via mail that is very expensive."

We, two, are not so un-a-like, it would seem.

That is, I could ask you the same question -- what did you do before third party grading? I'm sure your collection grew through in person meet and greets at shows and otherwise; and via mail deals with trusted confidants. Well, ebay and 3rd party grading evened the playing field and opened the market to everyone at all times.

Prior to ebay/PSA, while I had a modest collection of vintage baseball cards (a 33 Grove; a Matty white cap and a Bender portrait), my collecting of T206 cards grew exponentially after ebay and the advent of 3rd party grading made internet collecting preferable to purchasing cards at shows -- cheaper, more variety, better condition -- my best cards are ebay/internet purchases. I was drawn to ebay, which is a 24/7 internet card show -- allowing me to add to and sell from my collection in a nano-second. PayPal has sped the process up even further -- I can sell a card today and purchase another card with those funds in the same day, and the actual card hasn't even been mailed yet.

This is an exciting time to be collecting baseball cards. 3rd party grading and ebay are huge components of that. To suggest otherwise does not recognize the massive and positive influence that both have had on the hobby. The increases in price reflect the health of the hobby, not the opposite.