Uncatalogued cards

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Posted By: leon

I don't need to necessarily speak for my friend Dan but most likely the uncatalogued card(s) Dan has cost him more so that's why he would want to keep them that way. I definitely see that point but the other points are valid too....unless something new pops up this will be my last post on this thread......very good debate though.....and everyone can put this beauty in their pipe and smoke it

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Posted By: dan mckee

Ray, most or all of the uncataloged cards I pay more for go in my collection. But when the time comes that I may sell (kid goes to college) or I pass and Mastro handles the estate, I want the card to be valued at what I paid or more. This in no way compares to people trying to steal money by selling paper cut outs or hiding doctored enhanced cards. I take offense to that as my 35 years in the hobby, I have built a good reputation.

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Posted By: jay behrens

Ray, Dan is a respected memeber here and comparing him to the Roy Huff's of the world isn't going to win you much respect. It's fine that you feel strongly about this, but it doesn't pay to compare respected people to Roy Huff or other bad people. You should to find some other comaprision that is more accurate and won't put you in a bad light.

Jay

Wow upside down is Mom. Mom upside down is what dad wants to see.

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Posted By: Bill Cornell

I think Ray's correct. Dan should spill the beans and increase his chances of entering hobby heaven.

Bill

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Posted By: Scott M

I agree that collectors (such as Dan) have every right to hold back whatever information they want from their fellow collectors for whatever their purpose may be.

I just hope that those who think this way would also respect and understand that some of us enjoy sharing information with our fellow hobbyists and shouldn't complain about how it devalues the cards in their collection when someone chooses to share information.

Just my .02 cents and should not be taken as a personal attack on Dan or anyone else.

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Posted By: dan mckee

Absolutely! I agree totally. I have shared a ton with the hobby. I believe all of the original Baltimore News 1910 and 1914 came from Pop and I. I have just been burned before so I do not catalog everything. I have recently cataloged the 1894 Alpha Baltimore set. Dan.

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Posted By: Ray

Dan, I never singled you out! I don't know why you took it so personally! I even apologized when I realized you did take it personally. You've been in the hobby longer than I've been alive. I'm not bashing you... I'm bashing the concept of withholding information to make a card worth more than it might be worth.

And Jay, don't worry... I won't lose any sleep if you lose respect for me, especially when the forum administrator agrees with me! Does that mean you are going to look at him in a bad light too?

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Posted By: dan mckee

Ray, you stated that something I was doing was similar to the people that steal and deceive. I think you will find that the administrator was joking. Bill doesn't completely hate me.

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Posted By: Dan

I agree 100% with "the other Dan" on this one. I have a grunch of cards that I have never had graded, nor spoke of (only once to Steve Verkman did I confess...some) I think that he spoke of one of my cards Cobb with Cobb back, I am staying quiet about what I have mainly because... well obvious reasons. I have been quietly accumulating Vintage items for over 30 years now and have obtained a nice variety of items that I am waiting for someone else to discover. The T, E, etc cards that I have posted about, well, those are just not that unusual. I spent years of time invested in finding the tough tough tough items, those, will come out in a major auction some year as "1 of 1" and that will be just that.

After listening to so many folks complain about the Vintage world, I have chosen to back out of things for a while, but my real collection continues to exist for the benefit of my children... or my wife and I only if the stock market crashes and I lose all that I have there.

Happy New Year to all and to all a good night. Dan.

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Posted By: Ray

and neither do I. Again, I have nothing against you personally. I never said "Dan" in my original post.

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Posted By: dan mckee

Because I stated that "I hold back uncataloged cards" and you stated that holding back uncataloged cards is the same as selling paper cut-outs and not revealing the fact of a cards enhancement when you know and are selling it. The events you mentioned are deceptive and wrong and can hurt people.

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Posted By: dan mckee

Hey that's not fair Ray, you edited and removed the piece I answered.

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Posted By: Ray

Dan,

I was more upset that you admitted the following: "And I am not concealing anything to make money, I conceal it so that I do not lose money." You are concealing valuable info to the hobby so that a card maintains its value...

Then you go on to say: "I must agree it is better for the hobby to have them cataloged and I am primarily a collector and not an investor but I am not an idiot so if I pay $300 for a card, then have it cataloged and it becomes $100 like the other commons in the set, well then I would be an idiot."

If you know its better to have the card catalogued, why buy it at the premium in the first place??

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Posted By: dan mckee

I buy it because I want it for my collection. I do not buy cards to have them cataloged. My searching is to fill my sets. That was a very strange question. I am crashing, I am old, have a nice evening. Dan.

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Posted By: Ray

Dan,

I know you are not Roy Huff or any other sleezeball out there. I would never hesitate buying a card from you, or Jay, or anyone else on this board... and I have in fact bought from some of you (including Jay's brother). I will never have the resources to make the kinds of purchases you do, so maybe in that regard, I have a hard time understanding it.

LOL, You must have spent more on that SGC grading shipment than I have in the past 3 years on cards!

I sincerely apologize for offending you. That's not what this board is all about... its about sharing a common joy. 35 years or 3, we both love this hobby, and that should be more important than anything else.

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Posted By: Scott M

If one is buying (and paying a premium) for a card because they want it for their collection then I don't think it should matter that much to the individual if the card is subsequently catalogued because the collector would still be happy to have obtained the card and know that the one they possess is still very rare.

Now, on the other hand, if one is paying a premium for a card because they think its one of a kind and hope to sell it down the road as one of a kind and reap monetary rewards based on that status, well thats more of an investor/speculator to my way of thinking and that individual takes their chances by paying a premium knowing full well that another example may show up down the road.

Again, I just hope that the later type of individual realizes that it was their perogative to pay the premium and shouldn't complain about the devaluation of their collection/purchase when another example comes to light from someone else who doesn't mind sharing the information regarding a new card with the hobby. I've had that happen to me and I feel I have just as much a right to share my collection with others as someone else has to keep theirs secret for whatever reason.

Again, not a personal attack on Dan or anyone else. Just adding to my point from an earlier post based upon the subsequent comments.

Scott