PSA vs GAI

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Posted By: runscott

Let's say that you own the Gretzky t206 Wagner and are looking to sell it (perhaps a PSA10 set of refractors became available and you are low on cash).

...Someone comes along with a contract stating that they will give you an extra $500,000 for the Wagner, but only if you will first cross it over to SGC, regardless of the grade received. Would you crack it out of the slab and send it to SGC?

I didn't think so.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Scott, I hear you. But usually it's difficult to disccern a trimmed card from a scan on an ebay auction as you can't measure the cards online. All things being equal, therefore, I would obviously never bid on a PSA (or SGC) slabbed card that looks suspicious. And I buy whatever I need or want, regardless of whether the card is in a PSA or SGC holder. I just note that the PSA cards sell for more. And though I'm a collector and not a seller, I still want to buy at a decent value if possible. At some point probably after I'm in the ground, one of my ungrateful offspring of my offspring of my offspring will probably sell my cards to Kit Young's distant relative for peanuts...

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Posted By: MW

T206collector,

I'm completely serious when I say that I think you should look at the card sometime. When I look at it, I can clearly tell that it has been altered, but perhaps when you look at it, you won't see the same things that I do. I think this is only natural. Different collectors look at different qualities of a card and assign different weights to various defects. And if this is the case -- if the card appears properly graded to you -- then I see no reason to offer further proof.

Let's start there. View the card. If, after doing this, you have reason to believe that it might be altered, I'll provide some links to evidence that I have already posted on the Internet. If, on the other hand, you see nothing wrong with it, I see no reason to post anything further since you'll likely view it as mere propaganda. Does that seem reasonable?

BTW, good catch on "spacious"

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Posted By: MW

<< However, a card in a PSA holder will still sell for more than in a SGC holder. You can pick examples here and there that show exceptions, but that’s the truth. >>


Slacks,

Your original statement appears above -- it seems to be a generalization that the vast majority (with only a few exceptions) of PSA graded cards sell for more than SGC graded cards. You later qualified this statement by indicating that it applied to vintage cards.

I'm not asking for evidence that compares PSA to other grading companies since I recognize the fact that many other companies' cards sell for less. Specifically, I'm looking for prices for vintage cards (as would be pertinent to this forum) that show that PSA cards sell for more than SGC cards. As far as fulfilling your assertion that this occurs in the vast majority of cases, I'll leave the extent of that proof up to you.

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Posted By: Anon

I have bought 10 vintage (1911-1959)hockey cards from BMW, all but one in great shape, and none of them slabbed in any way.

I was just wondering how a "PSA vs. GAI" thread could garner 54 posts! So now I know.

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Posted By: Jason

In response to Scott's post I agree that I grade really conservative.....probably a grade or so too much. Scott does provide clean clear scans. I still do not see where I contradicted myself though.

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Posted By: runscott

I have really enjoyed the last few threads where you, Slacks and MW all got involved - you guys have the ability to really lay into each other, but still manage to keep your wits about you...and the occasional interjections by Todd, Pete, etc., add a little color and keep it lively.

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Posted By: runscott

But I have to disagree about one point you make - I have seen enough t206s to where I can sometimes tell easily if a card has been trimmed, even from an ebay scan. I can't do that with all issues, but for a few it is quite easy in many cases (t206s, t205s, etc.) That's not bragging, simply what you would expect from anyone who has spent countless hours looking closely at many, many cards. That doesn't mean that I couldn't make a mistake. I have talked with MW about '50s cards and it's obvious that he can spot trimmed, slabbed cards very easily - I am clueless and don't care much for those cards, so I'm not willing to spend time getting myself "educated". MW and others have told me that spotting trimmed '50s cards is actually quite easy.

...and I don't typically measure cards - if you've seen enough of a particular issue, you don't need to pull out a ruler;in fact, I think it's a crutch for some collectors that actually inhibits their learning the issue. Every time someone mentions their ruler in relation to a low-grade t206, it tells me something about their expertise. If a card looks short, I will look very carefully at the borders to try and determine if it is likely that it's been trimmed.

In the case of high-grade t206s, the ruler WILL come out, and the card better measure "full", or I don't want it. That's simply reducing risk - sure, I will pass on legitimate cards by doing that, but I don't care.

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Posted By: Jason

Where is Daniels when we need some real color?

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Posted By: Kenny Cole

As you can probably now tell, the answer to your question is that there is no definitive answer. These PSA vs. SGC vs. GAI type posts come up way too frequently, and all they do is engender a bunch of dispute, rhetoric, accusations, ugliness, etc. It is kind of like asking who to vote for. Everyone has their own opinions, based on alleged facts, beliefs or agendas. Those "facts," beliefs or agendas may or may not be correct, and they may or may not be yours.

I don't sell cards, don't submit them for grading to any company, and could basically care less other than to say that this ground has been plowed down to bedrock. There ain't no crops gonna grow there no more. My best suggestion is that if you want to have a card graded, listen to everyone, believe no one, do your own research, and figure out which grading company best suits your particular needs. Good luck.

Kenny Cole