Not defending Koos or the Mantle, but-

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Posted By: runscott

This is what you do when backed in a corner. I have never contacted anyone's bidders prior to an auction ending. You're just tossing ideas up in the wind and hoping they fly.

So you think everyone is "out to get you"? Newsflash: No one really cares that much about you.

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Posted By: runscott

...

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Posted By: Kenny Cole

He's clearly out what he paid for it. However, I can see an argument to be made that he's out more. Assuming for the moment that it was the real deal and he bought it for less than it was worth with the intent to sell it, it can be argued that he is out his expected profit as well. Its that buy low, sell high thing that I just can't seem to get the knack of.

What is that amount for that card if it was as originally represented? I don't know. However, I do know that you can't recover it if its a speculative amount.

A test auction on ebay may well be an effort to find out what the public (yes, I know its a private auction) thinks this particular card is worth. It may be an attempt, admittedly unscientific, to quantify what he believes his damages to be. But it more than likely isn't fraud.

Kenny Cole

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Posted By: runscott

He paid what the public thought it was worth. Nothing has changed since then.

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no disclaimer - temporarily taking responsibility for my actions

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Posted By: Dr.Koos

...values do change.

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Posted By: Dr.Koos

..please add Kenny's name to the list of those I've previously mentioned with the ability, usually taken for granted, of being able to think clearly.

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Posted By: runscott

If someone doesn't disagree with you, then they are sane.

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no disclaimer - temporarily taking responsibility for my actions

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Posted By: runscott

...so I can get up and not go to work tomorrow. Wait a minute, maybe I'll be a doctor tomorrow...yeah, that's the ticket.

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no disclaimer - temporarily taking responsibility for my actions

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Posted By: vorthian

<< A test auction on ebay may well be an effort to find out what the public (yes, I know its a private auction) thinks this particular card is worth. >>

Maybe a more "accurate" read would be attained if he made his feedback public while not having a private auction.

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Posted By: leonl

If he bought it, as he IS advertising it , then he could potentially say, that is what the value is since that is the way I bought it (albeit fraudelently)...and have more of a "market analysis" than just what HE paid for it....as most know a single auction, should not, but frequently does, set a market rate for near future sales...who on the board has not used the argument to buy a card cheaper by saying they saw a similar one cheaper....maybe Doc is trying to determine a market/legality issue...?? not sure but it could be possible....and the guy does have 605 positive feedbacks, from 372 unique users, with only 1 negative....if nothing else I will say try keeping 372 customers happy, each a few times, with only 1 pissed off person....and probably retalitory in that one.....that is just an overwhelming stat......and BTW , the darn card is at $10,100 as we speak....regards all

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Posted By: Dr.Koos

..Runscott and Brueso (ANOTHER cerebral individual), two bodies devoid of their severed chicken-heads, would have run rumpscottian up and down all my past bidders and winners trying to induce the same brand of friggin' (tm@T-Bob) hysteria they are prone to. Steve, you have NO idea how embarrassed I am for even addressing them. While YOU & I have to grin and bear it, I'll be damned if I'm going to subject my past winners and bidders to a spam barrage detailing their constantly shifting charges and madcap theories.
I don't understand it. There are Comedy clubs STARVING for their brand of slapstick entertainment. They should take this act on the road. EVERYBODY loves micro-encephalics (pinheads). ESPECIALLY in drag (hint, hint, "guys"), and their wasting their un-natural abilities here on ME. Having experience with "institutionalized" individuals, I've already seen this act.

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Posted By: Kenny Cole

Don't get peevish. I don't know the answers either. I am simply suggesting alternative possibilities that seem to make some degree of sense, at least to me.

As far as my sanity goes, all of my fraternity brothers in college seemed to think that I was: A) a drunk; and B) insane. They were right about point A. Then I went to law school, learned to drink more and better liquor, became a lawyer, and proved their point about point B as well. As my wife so often (gently) points out, who but an insane person would pay outrageous sums of money for pictures of baseball players on pieces of cardboard?

Kenny Cole

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Posted By: Bruce Moreland

Anything is possible.

There are reserve auctions with un-met reserves every day.

I think that the damages someone incurs from looking at an auction like this are too trivial to mention.

And if someone is out shopping for PRO cards, anything that wastes their time is probably good for them, because it gives them more time to think about it and become less stupid.

bruce

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Posted By: Dr.Koos

...many have said that the Mantle is restored, myself included (repeating what I read and was told and taking that verbatem), but nobody has come forward with "before" pictures, or even SECOND hand knowledge of what conservations were performed!
Also, if there WERE at one time a "before" photocopy of the PSA 8 T206 Wagner, check the lineage of ownership, do you actually think that ANY facsimile of that card PRIOR to trimming would STILL be extant? NOT DESTROYED by one in the line of ownership, MANY moons ago?

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Posted By: Dr.Koos

..about ME??? Your obsession with me is as unhealthy as your denial of it. Come on Scott. What's REALLY troubling you, son? Confide in us, it's for your own good. There are Boards I can recommend that will help with your inadequacies, whatever they may be, jSut (tm@Rumpscottian spelling)let it out and take that first "Baby-step".

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Posted By: runscott

...since you actually made a card-related post a moment ago (good job).

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no disclaimer - temporarily taking responsibility for my actions

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Posted By: runscott

I don't have an archive folder of "posts and emails to be used against board members in the future", so I have no problem with accepting this explanation. If you thought it was trimmed purely because others told you so, and you didn't believe it yourself, then there's nothing wrong with you now rejecting their opinions and putting the card forth on ebay as you have done (I know I will catch hell for saying that). I can accept your old posts about the card being garbage, as just more senseless blathering, kind of like the references to male body fluids and back-sides, etc.

BTW - it doesn't seem normal to me that a man's imagination would constantly run in that direction unless there was a problem. If you truly are a doctor, you must know someone who could help you get your imagination going in a more healthy direction.

And regarding the Wagner, I can't speak to the integrity of any of the prior owners, but I HAVE heard that photos were taken of the card when it was "larger". I would like to see those photos - perhaps they were destroyed, but perhaps computer images exist. I don't know.

Koos and Bruce - I'm through discussing the Mantle. Anyone who buys a PRO card, especially a high-dollar one, is a total idiot anyway. Sell it, burn it, put it in an SGC holder (hahaha), whatever.

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no disclaimer - temporarily taking responsibility for my actions

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Posted By: Brian C Daniels

Now why would a known restorator take before pictures?

That is like going into the hous of a bank robber only to find servailance photos of all the banks recently robbed in the area!

There is NO before photo! But you must have fogot that I informed you two years ago that I know where it came from....in addition, to imply it is not altered for certain is silly because why would Bill mastro want to loose money by listing the card ( if it were not ) as altered in one of his big auctions??? That would be silly..........to confirm it was/is altered no doubt it was sent to PSA just to confirm and no doubt came back rejected....it is done well which would give you a clue as to who altered it as only four guys in the country can do it well enough to get some stuff past the graders of any combination of graders ( PRO excluded because they graded my daughters "doodlings" which said " ROD ZABEW " on the bottom....lastly,your correct in stating the market has changed.....meaning the value.....it went down! When is the last time a high priced mantle went for large coin??? I have not seen or heard of one for some time.They won't sell well and the guys who own them are not selling now in a none "E" card depressed stock market. Mastro did not lie! The card is definately altered..I even worte you and told you exactly what was done to it.That is not even an issue. Frankly,if your trying to state that it has a high reserve to see what the market would bring ,that's fine I don't seeanything other than using e-bay as source of value info what else could you do but write everyone who ever bids on one,explain your situation and then ask them how much they think it's worth? It's easier just to post it to communicate with them I guess....just tell us what the RESERVE is? Isn't that also fair.......... it has some value heck for the right price it is still a conversation piece of sorts.

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Posted By: jay behrens

did your wife marry you becuase she thought she could get free shoes?

Jay

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Posted By: Dr.Koos

overwhelmingly positive feedback, 605-1, soon to be 605-0 once again as soon as Square Trade reverses the retailiatory negative from a RENEGGER, UNCONTESTED by him by NOT anwering any of Square Trade's communications asking for his side of the story, so important to you unless you desire to contact my past winners and bidders? What comments could I possibly be hiding? My feedback was 597-0 BEFORE the retaliatory negative, and MY FEEDBACK WAS ALREADY SHIELDED FOR THE PAST YEAR!!!! NOT recently. Face it! You're on a friggin' (tm@T-Bob) witch-hunt, nothing more. Your "humanitarian" efforts are as much a charade to shield personal shortcomings as they are unwarranted. Here...I'll prove it: Let's rate Runscott's performance! Who on this Board has his senseless prattle DISSUADED from bidding on the card? I'm sure that EVERYONE here was chomping at the bit to do bid-battling over it until Scott "Talked you out if it".

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Posted By: runscott

...magic mushrooms maybe?

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Posted By: Brian C Daniels

and you do not address issues one by noe as you should so to your defense of one of the statements above YES,PRO is bogus ,we all know it and anything ala PRO is suspect.KOOS did not know that when he purchased thr mantle or the ****ful Joe Jackson card he has!

The idioys who saw he was green and hoodwinked him are Gerry Mosser his fat brother and Art VonDole....they are desciples of Highway Robbery Rick** ( but on a smaller scale) they are the ones who taught " jailtimefor All" to do the self-slabbing contridiction of business ethics thing....this very thing that David hall went to Prison for ala PCGS ( the coin portion of PSA** ) you guys all know the deal here right???? On the old Board Koos,myself ( also swindled from these pirates out of reversed VISA charges for a $2k Cobb I sold and sent to them prior to PayPal!!!)wrote allabout this only to have those guys come on and deny a bunch of accusations that ended up dismissing them from this group....."bedrock auctions" PSA-cards, Kardz-r-us and "beanies" and whaterver other handles they use are the ones who purchased the card from BilMastro who legit/auctioned it as altered.....for $8200...then ripped green boy Koos ( who calls Fraser son "YF" )for around $12500....and now here it is! THE REAL ISSUE IS RECOGCILLIATION FROM PRO FOR CONFLICT OF INTEREST WWITH INTENT TO COMMIT FRAUD*** I won't judge what Koos is up to but if PRO had gotten busted as they deserve than this would not be happeneing now!!!

Leon,call me back after you hang out on the porch son!!

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Posted By: Dr.Koos

...it's the general concensus of an acquaintance. A clinical psychologist (would you like me to refer you to him?) who did me a favor in reading your posts, to confirm my suspicions of their agenda and content.

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Posted By: runscott

...does this one have the same credentials as you?

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no disclaimer - temporarily taking responsibility for my actions

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Posted By: Dr.Koos

...it IS insane to disagree with what I am thinking, because you really have NO IDEA WHATSOEVER. You only THINK you know what I'm thinking, all of the possibilities of which are nefarious and deceitful in your way of thinking, because that is the way YOU are. You are projecting YOUR motives behind your own daily actions and schemes on ME and drawing illogical, insane conclusions based on your whimsy. It's ALWAYS like that. The guy with the biggest axe to grind has the smallest arms to weild it.

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Posted By: Dr.Koos

...candy-striper! Neurotics build castles in the air, psychotics live in them, and you clean the windows.

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Posted By: Dr.Koos

...Napoleonic complexes from a mile away.

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Posted By: Bureso

Maybe you and your colleague (I'd make a guess that he's actually the guy treating you) can spot them from a mile away because you suffer from one yourself. You seem to be the feel the NEED to include your "title" in your signature. There are numerous attorneys on the board who don't seem to need to add "Esquire"- there may be other doctors. But once again, you probably have another rationalization to excuse you from being subject to your insults to others.

Do you still feel the need to discuss anyone's spelling? You really had them on the ropes over that one, tough guy.

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Posted By: Brueso

...come from the same educational institution (actually, probably "institution" by itself would suffice) as Dr. Johnny Fever from WKRP in Cincinatti.

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Posted By: Dr.Koos

..spell your screen name! Look at your last post!!!

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Posted By: Brueso

Yawn.

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Posted By: Dr.Koos

...95% of them are addressed to you and Brueso. Well deserved commentary I might add, if you are capable of being insulted by absolute truth. Because YOU'RE in denial over your parasitic, compulsive personae, that has attatched you to me much like a pilot fish to a whale, doesn't mean that I'm not going to see you as you really are.

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Posted By: Dr.Koos

a Freudian slip!

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Posted By: runscott

but thanks for the offer

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Posted By: John(z28jd)

i say we should have a hall of fame for threads that were real good because of information thats in them,but i would also put this one in just for the amount of posts in it. If this ones ever off the first page we should retire it in a special section....oh yeah,free prize to whoever makes the 100th post in this thread!

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Posted By: David

Cut it up into tiny pieces and make memorabilia cards for the National