What was the salvation of the Prewar card hobby

[Vintage Vern]

Was it the internet, card shows, shops etc. What has been the driving force? How did the good ol boys of yesteryear collect before all the technology came around, and how did it change the way for you today. It truly is amazing to me how many mynewt, and fragile items still exist, especially from a time of wars, and hardships. Items that had really no value at the time.

[Yoda]

Nostalgia for a world less complicated and one in which deals were personal social interactions instead of just mouse pushing.

[homerunhitter]

Im one of those old farts that collected before technology took over and I’ll tell you, it was amazing! We collected for the pure love of the hobby, didn’t care about condition of cards or if we traded a Mickey Mantle for a Phi Niekro. We were just happy getting cards of our favorite teams or players. As mentioned above, interaction and having fun was everything. Nowadays the hobby is all about quick flips, getting one over on someone and graded cards. Old school collecting is the way!

[Vintage Vern]

Originally Posted by homerunhitter

Im one of those old farts that collected before technology took over and I’ll tell you, it was amazing! We collected for the pure love of the hobby, didn’t care about condition of cards or if we traded a Mickey Mantle for a Phi Niekro. We were just happy getting cards of our favorite trans or players. As mentioned above, interaction and having fun was everything. Nowadays the hobby is all about quick flips, getting one over on someone and graded cards. Old school collecting is the way!

But how? I'd imagine it was more in the larger populated cities. My family all grew up farming, and living in very modest ways. My Dad was born in 1937, and they had 8 people living in a 4 room house with no running water. He passed away in 1996, and I did ask him questions, and in no way was a baseball card something he would have been able to have had. He told me sticks, and rocks are what they used to play baseball. I'm just trying to imagine the amount of cards that still exist, and it's amazing to me.

[jingram058]

Having been in and out of the hobby 4 times, I have never understood my 3rd return in the late 1980s, and now. Even in the late 80s, you could still buy a 33 Goudey Ruth for $250. I know, because I bought one. I thought it was a lot of money. Maybe I'm just and old fogey, but the thousands of dollars for that same Ruth seems unbelievable. I have never understood the Mickey Mantle phenomenon. But I guess his meteoric rise in value is similar to Lawrence Welk in the big bands. Out of Glenn Miller (who unfortunately disappeared over the English Channel), Benny Goodman, Tommy Dorsey, Artie Shaw, who would believe that Lawrence Welk would wind up so insanely popular when all the others faded away?

[brunswickreeves]

Originally Posted by jingram058

Having been in and out of the hobby 4 times, I have never understood my 3rd return in the late 1980s, and now. Even in the late 80s, you could still buy a 33 Goudey Ruth for $250. I know, because I bought one. I thought it was a lot of money. Maybe I'm just and old fogey, but the thousands of dollars for that same Ruth seems unbelievable. I have never understood the Mickey Mantle phenomenon. But I guess his meteoric rise in value is similar to Lawrence Welk in the big bands. Out of Glenn Miller (who unfortunately disappeared over the English Channel), Benny Goodman, Tommy Dorsey, Artie Shaw, who would believe that Lawrence Welk would wind up so insanely popular when all the others faded away?

When I was about 10 years old a friend of mine casually opened a safety box at his grandfather’s house where we were visiting and showed me several 33 Goudey Ruths. Said they were worth about a thousand bucks. That was the first time I had ever seen a vintage baseball card in person and was totally captivated. I also remember a friend telling us his Dad had a 52 Topps Mantle and my brother and I would play in the woods imagining what if we found an abandoned box of 52 Topps cards and THE Mickey Mantle? Funny how these childhood memories are so cemented in memory and a place we collectors go back to for pure unbridled joy.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by jingram058

But I guess his meteoric rise in value is similar to Lawrence Welk in the big bands. Out of Glenn Miller (who unfortunately disappeared over the English Channel), Benny Goodman, Tommy Dorsey, Artie Shaw, who would believe that Lawrence Welk would wind up so insanely popular when all the others faded away?

I don't think any big band aficionado would compare Lawrence Welk to any of the greats on your list. That would be insulting to the other artists. (And you're obviously saying pretty much the same thing!) Welk was more like Guy Lombardo; extremely popular, but not influential in any sort of progressive sense. All the others you mentioned made huge contributions to music, while Welk and Lombardo were just pablum that some people could dance to. You could say that Welk was to big bands what Pat Boone was to rock & roll, except it dragged on for decades thanks to television.

[Tony Gordon]

My dad was born in 1937 as well but on the near North Side of Chicago where he could obtain just about anything he wanted. He collected cards. I suspect he had Bowmans, Exhibits and Leafs from the late 1940's. When I got into collecting in the mid-1970's, we went to my grandmother's house to look for his cards. Her basement was stacked with junk from her entire life, except for my dad's cards. She threw those out.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by Tony Gordon

My dad was born in 1937 as well but on the near North Side of Chicago where he could obtain just about anything he wanted. He collected cards. I suspect he had Bowmans, Exhibits and Leafs from the late 1940's. When I got into collecting in the mid-1970's, we went to my grandmother's house to look for his cards. Her basement was stacked with junk from her entire life, except for my dad's cards. She threw those out.

Ouch! When my dad passed away in 1979, my Mom redecorated the house I grew up in. I don't remember her calling me to say "please come get your boxes of cards, scorecards, etc." although it's entirely possible she did, perhaps more than once. At some point, I went looking in my old room and elsewhere for my stuff, and it was all gone. I'm not sure I even asked her about it because I knew the answer already and didn't want to make her feel bad.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by Tony Gordon

When I got into collecting in the mid-1970's, we went to my grandmother's house to look for his cards. Her basement was stacked with junk from her entire life, except for my dad's cards. She threw those out.

Did you ask her what she'd been using for a brain? "Oh, I'll keep all my own junk but I'll just throw out the stuff my son treasured."

[whitehse]

Originally Posted by Vintage Vern

But how? I'd imagine it was more in the larger populated cities. My family all grew up farming, and living in very modest ways. My Dad was born in 1937, and they had 8 people living in a 4 room house with no running water. He passed away in 1996, and I did ask him questions, and in no way was a baseball card something he would have been able to have had. He told me sticks, and rocks are what they used to play baseball. I'm just trying to imagine the amount of cards that still exist, and it's amazing to me.

The cards were stored in bags and put away in attics, Garages, and even barns. I started collecting at a 9 year old in 1973 and by the end of the decade my dad and I were putting ads in local papers offering to pay cash for cards. At that time people were shocked we would pay for the very things they were likely to throw out and eagerly allowed us to come to their home with cash for their cardboard. This was before the Beckett guides and you struck a deal with the seller based on nothing more than common sense. We bought unbelievable collections with unbelievable cards. We had nearly a complete run of Topps sets, both football and baseball from 1954 going forward just from these purchases. When we had doubles we would do the old fashioned thing and take them to the monthly collectors shows held at Holiday Inns, VFW halls and even school cafeterias and trade others for the cards were needed for our sets. Looking back, we didnt spend a great deal of money but back then the cards were only worth what someone was willing to pay for them. To be honest, those were some pretty awesome times to be a collector as you got to know so many other people and what they collected and we would help each other out with want lists.

I remember spending 50 dollars each on two 1933 Ruths. I spent the same on a '34 Gehrig and thinking I over paid. I have a vivid memory of a older gentleman who still had his collection from his childhood which was mainly a large cigar box filled with '33 and '34 Goudey's. As we were goin g through the cards I saw several beautiful hall of famers and even a pristine Lajoie that he remembered getting through the mail. The gentleman decided to put the cards in a safe deposit box and pass them on to his grandkids.

The cards were out there and they survived. They are still out there and are waiting to be found. Sadly, its all about the money and the grade the cards will fetch and not about the people depicted on the cards and it certainly isnt about the relationships that so many of us formed in the days before the internet and price guides.

[Brent G.]

Originally Posted by whitehse

The cards were stored in bags and put away in attics, Garages, and even barns. I started collecting at a 9 year old in 1973 and by the end of the decade my dad and I were putting ads in local papers offering to pay cash for cards. At that time people were shocked we would pay for the very things they were likely to throw out and eagerly allowed us to come to their home with cash for their cardboard. This was before the Beckett guides and you struck a deal with the seller based on nothing more than common sense. We bought unbelievable collections with unbelievable cards. We had nearly a complete run of Topps sets, both football and baseball from 1954 going forward just from these purchases. When we had doubles we would do the old fashioned thing and take them to the monthly collectors shows held at Holiday Inns, VFW halls and even school cafeterias and trade others for the cards were needed for our sets. Looking back, we didnt spend a great deal of money but back then the cards were only worth what someone was willing to pay for them. To be honest, those were some pretty awesome times to be a collector as you got to know so many other people and what they collected and we would help each other out with want lists.

I remember spending 50 dollars each on two 1933 Ruths. I spent the same on a '34 Gehrig and thinking I over paid. I have a vivid memory of a older gentleman who still had his collection from his childhood which was mainly a large cigar box filled with '33 and '34 Goudey's. As we were goin g through the cards I saw several beautiful hall of famers and even a pristine Lajoie that he remembered getting through the mail. The gentleman decided to put the cards in a safe deposit box and pass them on to his grandkids.

The cards were out there and they survived. They are still out there and are waiting to be found. Sadly, its all about the money and the grade the cards will fetch and not about the people depicted on the cards and it certainly isnt about the relationships that so many of us formed in the days before the internet and price guides.

I don't think this is universally true. I got into collecting vintage last year, and I've enjoyed reading about every player whose card I purchase. My main takeaway from Year 1: There sure were a lot of guys who died of TB in the 1890s-1920s.

I gotta think there are more people like myself who love the history behind the cardboard.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by homerunhitter

We were just happy getting cards of our favorite trans or players.

Trans though? I don't think there was any rule banning them from MLB, but I don't think many were good enough to make it to the majors.

[homerunhitter]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

Trans though? I don't think there was any rule banning them from MLB, but I don't think many were good enough to make it to the majors.

Darn autocorrect! It’s suppose to be teams. Will correct it now! Thanks for the catch!

[packs]

In the early 90s when I started collecting pre-war aside from card shows I would always be on the look out for ads in the classified sections of newspapers. There would always be a handful of ads for garage sales that said they had baseball cards and for sale ads of people trying to unload their collections.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Vintage Vern

Was it the internet, card shows, shops etc. What has been the driving force? How did the good ol boys of yesteryear collect before all the technology came around, and how did it change the way for you today. It truly is amazing to me how many mynewt, and fragile items still exist, especially from a time of wars, and hardships. Items that had really no value at the time.

I don't know about Salvation but the internet made it, like everything else, get much larger.

Here is my newt..

[BobbyStrawberry]

Another Newt

[bmattioli]

Originally Posted by Vintage Vern

Was it the internet, card shows, shops etc. What has been the driving force?

Without the help of the Internet and making contacts I would not possess quite a few things I love..

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

(Lawrence) Welk was more like Guy Lombardo; extremely popular, but not influential in any sort of progressive sense.... Welk and Lombardo were just pablum that some people could dance to.

An outrageous lie! Lawrence Welk was just plain schmaltzy. Guy Lombardo and His Royal Canadians were not. They were a standard big band for their day. (Not that I'm any kind of a big band fan.)

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

An outrageous lie! Lawrence Welk was just plain schmaltzy. Guy Lombardo and His Royal Canadians were not. They were a standard big band for their day. (Not that I'm any kind of a big band fan.)

Music being subjective to personal interpretation, I always found Lombardo just as schmaltzy. I hate to say that about our hometown's boy, but...

[HercDriver]

I would say the internet opened up the vastness of what's out there, that you just never knew about. I have been collecting since 1974, moving towards pre-war in the early eighties, where I would trade Sandberg rookies for T205s, which Chicago shops were happy to do. Everyone wanted a Sandberg, nobody knew who Joe Tinker was. All my trading was by writing letters, from the classifieds in Trader Speaks and SCD, or whatever other periodical I could get my hands on. I used to come home from school and go straight for the mailbox, to see what might be in there. It's crazy to think how we would send paper versions of our wantlists, xeroxed at the library, hoping somebody had something...waiting a couple weeks for a response. Those were the days when you had to wait until after dinner to call your grandpa, because the rates were lower...remember that? Jeez...I'm 57 and I feel ancient. Anyway, the internet changed it for me in two ways. First, I found OBC, and later N54. Traders...in real time!!! Sure, you could trade in real time in grade school, because we all had cards. But by the time you got to college, what better way to spook your girlie action than a pile of baseball cards. The second was opening up the vista of what is out there. Sure, we had the Beckett price guides, but nothing like the monthly pickup thread on N54. I see cards on that thread every month, that I never knew existed. And for a T205/T206 guy like me, I never knew anything about back populations until the internet came along, and that eventually pointed me down the road I am on now, to get complete Sovereign back sets. Before the internet...the knowledge and data just wasn't available. I guess I'll add one more thing the internet did...friendships that were not possible before. Mine are primarily from OBC, which I joined around 1995. Guys have come and gone, but I still meet up with them and talk cards over beers. Guys I would never have met in the days of my mailbox in Illinois. It's so cool to meet up with somebody totally new, and feel like you've known them forever. I guess that was possible in the old days, but the relationships would have taken a lot longer to foster than it does in a forum like this. So say what you will about the scammers, the graders, the pack busters...the reality is 99% of our interactions are positive since the internet brought us all together. At least that's my experience...

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by Vintage Vern

Was it the internet, card shows, shops etc. What has been the driving force? How did the good ol boys of yesteryear collect before all the technology came around, and how did it change the way for you today. It truly is amazing to me how many mynewt, and fragile items still exist, especially from a time of wars, and hardships. Items that had really no value at the time.

The story behind and the ensuing chase of any and all T206 Wagners.


.

[Hankphenom]

I think it boils down to the fact that baseball, and cards of the players, has always had appeal to a very broad swath of American boys and men, along with some girls and women. So let's imagine a smoker in 1890 or 1911 opening his pack of cigarettes and finding a baseball card inside. Even if he is not a fan of the game, is he going to just throw it away? I think he's probably going to stick it in his pocket and find a kid to give it to, or throw it into a cigar box. Same with cards that came with candy and other things in the teens and 20s. By the 1930s and onward, collecting baseball cards was a well-known hobby in its own right, so of course people spending their precious money on packs of Goudeys, Topps, etc., are going to take care of them at least to the extent of making sure they don't get severely damaged or even thrown away, although of course because they had no real monetary value until the 70s, say, there was plenty of that, as with the fabled moms who got tired of looking at the boxes on the closet shelf in sonny's old room. At that point, when it became widely known that dealers and collectors would actually pony up serious cash for old cards, the survival rate surely shot up by a lot. With the possible exception of the WWII paper drives, I'm going to speculate that there was never a substantial period in which there were a lot of situations in which these pretty little treasures would have been regarded as something to toss away like old newspapers or magazines, for example. Factor in the aforementioned enormous production runs of the big sets, and voila, you've got a heck of a lot of them still around today.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by Vintage Vern

How did the good ol boys of yesteryear collect before all the technology came around....

Originally Posted by whitehse

The cards were stored in bags and put away in attics, Garages, and even barns. I started collecting at a 9 year old in 1973....

Vinyl nine pocket sheets and dedicated cardboard boxes for cards were already around in 1979 when as an adult I started recollecting the cards of my formative years. Does anyone know when these accoutrements to card collecting were first introduced?

[Yoda]

We should remember the early pioneers, eg. Lew Lipset, for keeping the flame alive until we were drawn to it.

[Exhibitman]

Why? My $0.02:

https://open.substack.com/pub/adamst...meOnShare=true

How? My $0.02:

I've been collecting for over 50 years with a brief detour for girls and cars (hint: cards are way easier to acquire and store) from about 1981-1987. The hobby was a backwater of hardcore devotees who did most stuff by mail or in local card clubs until the 1970s. The wave of nostalgia unleashed in the 1970s for the 1950s led to the expansion of awareness, with The Great American Baseball Card Flipping, Trading and Bubble Gum Book by Brendan C. Boyd and Fred C. Harris starting the wave in 1973. My uncle loved the book and gave me a copy, which unleashed my interest in vintage cards. That book is a must-have for anyone who loves cards but it is really about the time and the sport as expressed in cards, not about the hobby. If you want a picture-perfect encapsulation of the hobby mid-1970s, get a copy of The Complete Book of Baseball Cards: For the Collector, Flipper and Fan [1975; Steve Clark]. There is no better encapsulation of things.

Starting in the late 1970s, the local clubs expanded into larger conventions with major shows. Here is a PC from the first show I attended:



Similar shows started up regionally, including a semi-annual (Memorial Day and Labor Day) show in Anaheim CA that Mike Berkus organized and that morphed into the National in 1980.

I also think that Alan Rosen aka Mr. Mint had a lot to do with hyping the hobby in the 1980s. My $0.02 on Rosen:

https://open.substack.com/pub/adamst...eOnShare=false

Then came Upper Deck...Read Card Sharks: How Upper Deck Turned a Child's Hobby Into a High-Stakes Billion-Dollar Business by Pete Williams. Since then it has been an arms race between manufacturers and this thing of ours, vintage, has benefitted and been driven by a continual influx of collectors who are tired of a tint spot of wear making or breaking a card and the roller coaster price swings.

Then, of course, we had the COVID wave that jacked both prices and awareness through the roof.

What I find most interesting is that dedicated collectors are taking joy now in mid-grade and lower-grade cards that they would have scoffed at a decade ago. A collector is a collector whether the card is worth a fortune or a fortune cookie. Yay FUGLY cards

[bigfanNY]

1973 saw the release of the" Great American Baseball Card Flipping and Trading Bubblegum book" By Boyd and Harris. It captured the Hearts and Minds of Generations of Grown men who collected as kids but who hadn't given baseball cards a second thought in decades. My Dad was one. At 12 I was a very active collector having scoured my neighborhood for the past 4 years trading buying begging for any Baseball card That I didn't have. I was mostly complete from 1964 to 1972. My Dad enjoyed sorting cards with me and helped me store my prizes wrapped in rubber bands in old salvo Detergent boxes. He bought a poker chip carousel for me to store my Topps coins from 1964 and 1971. He had saved his cards from his youth. A single Goudey 34 Cochrane, 35 Sports kings Cobb, then small stacks of 39 and 40 Playballs, complete set of 41 Playballs, complete set of 48 Bowman about half of 49 and Complete set of 50 bowmans. He would have been 19 in 1950 working full time so the pennies and nickels that were so scarce in the 40's came easier then.
He read in NY times that Baseball dealers were setting up at an antique show in MSG and asked if I wanted to go. Then that summer he found a large collection for sale at a church flea market. Guy wanted $35 we split it. Thousands of cards from 53 to 59. We were hooked.
1
1974 and the Topps Hank Aaron special cards showing him from 1954 to 1973 also gave a real shot in the arm to Card Collecting.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

1973 saw the release of the" Great American Baseball Card Flipping and Trading Bubblegum book" By Boyd and Harris.

I went through four copies of that book as a kid. The first one was left at a highway rest stop when I was 11. The next two literally fell apart from overuse and were cut up and sent to the players to be signed. The highlight was Gus Zernial writing back to explain just what the hell was going on in his 1952 Topps photo! I still have the last copy intact, but just barely.

I memorized every word. I think back to 9th grade typing class (on typewriters!)--a buddy would read a few words from a typical passage and I'd tell him who the player was. Still remember the only time I drew a blank--George Brunet.

[JollyElm]

A bit incidental, as I don't collect pre-war cards, but like the Topps sets mentioned which piqued the curiosity of our young minds by featuring those all-time greats subsets, what got me interested in long ago players from the pre-war days (plus the 40s and 50s and such) were the (remember these?) Scholastic Book Fairs at my elementary school.

Mom would give us a few bucks and demand we get "REAL" books and "only one or two" sports books. Through those types of baseball encyclopedias, I started learning about Pie (ha!) Traynor, Rabbit Maranville, Hornsby, Mathewson, etc.