What card would you arrange financing to buy?

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Bestdj777

I wouldn’t buy anything that required a payment plan—I collect for fun but have huge responsibilities as a parent/spouse and wouldn’t jeopardize my family for cardboard. I did try to buy a card I couldn’t really afford at the time with the thought that I could sell something really liquid (52 Topps Mantle) after to pay back my savings account after. Ended up losing the auction and doubt that card will ever see the marketplace again in my lifetime. But such is life.

Chris - Any chance you would be willing to share with us the card that you missed out on? Just so we can join you in wishing that you had landed it?

[iwantitiwinit]

Never would I borrow money to buy cardboard. If I can't live in it or drive it I wouldn't borrow anything.

[Sean]

T206 Plank took me two years to pay off. The Cobb back took me almost as long, as well as the sale of 90% of my set (but I kept the best 10%). And looking back I wouldn't do anything differently. They're the best cards that I own and if I had to cut back on my spending on cards for a couple years, it was worth it.



I suppose that this also explains why I drove a 1996 Honda Civic for 18 years (348K miles).

[Steve D]

Around 20 or so years ago, a PSA 1-2 T206 Plank was on ebay. I went to my credit union and got a loan for $16K for it.

I ended up the under-bidder at $16,100; it went for $16,200, and I paid the loan money back to the credit union.

I suppose I would do it again, if the cost of the loan (principal + interest) made sense compared to the value of the item I was buying.

Steve

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

If you're thinking about financing a card. It might be a better idea to sell every card you have in order to buy the card you so want. If you have to finance a card you cant afford the card. Sell what you have and then use the funds to buy.

Agree 100%

If there is a deal so good you are willing to go into debt for it you are probably getting scammed.

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[theshowandme]

People have drained retirement accounts to buy cardboard? What?!

[Luke]

Sure, if it made sense. I doubt I'd ever use a high interest loan like a credit card for a card that would take me a year to pay off, but I've taken some time to pay for cards and offered the same to people over the years.

What Sean said above is the right answer imo. If you have a collection worth say 50k and your dream card is worth 20k and you're willing to sell as much as you need to from your collection to own it, and you can negotiate a 6 month window to pay, sure, why wouldn't you?

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by mrreality68

Wow Phil

I am drooling for that card.

Right? One of the most beautiful cards I've ever seen. I'd trade 10 clown like E90-1 Jacksons for that card.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by theshowandme

People have drained retirement accounts to buy cardboard? What?!

We had a whole thread on it a couple months ago. The normal pumpers were frustrated some people spoke in favor of common sense and not betting one’s family’s entire future on baseball cards.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by G1911

We had a whole thread on it a couple months ago. The normal pumpers were frustrated some people spoke in favor of common sense and not betting one’s family’s entire future on baseball cards.

Maybe the thread just lasted forever, but I could swear it didn’t wrap up until like 2 weeks ago.

Found it here:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...errerid=883728

[G1911]

Originally Posted by raulus

Maybe the thread just lasted forever, but I could swear it didn’t wrap up until like 2 weeks ago.

Found it here:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...errerid=883728

5 weeks ago instead of 8, I stand corrected.

[todeen]

I can see I'm in the minority. Using a CC does not bother me. Is it smart? Probably not. But I'm not destroying my life, my family's life, or signing a pact with the devil. I don't drink, smoke, gamble, drink coffee, speculate in the markets, I don't travel, or go to concerts. We don't own a house (and the idea that my $10k collection would translate into a 20% down payment is ridiculous). I have a pension, life insurance, I have additional investments called DCP, I have started saving for my kids college, I pay for my kids to be in after school activities, I force my wife to buy clothes and shoes, I take my wife on dates. All of the things I've listed are paid for in cash. Compared to my college debt (which honestly might never be paid off before I die), my CC debt is miniscule and is paid off every year. Both of my kids cost $5k each in health costs. They were more expensive than any card I ever bought.

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[Exhibitman]

I have accepted layaway from buyers and I have done layaway with sellers but I don't think of that the same way as going into debt. It is basically making a non-refundable deposit.

I really can't think of a single card that I want to have so much that I would go into debt to get it. The closest I ever came was considering using a credit line to buy a Bruce Lee signed card at one of the National shows. I ultimately decided it wasn't worth it.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by todeen

I can see I'm in the minority. Using a CC does not bother me. Is it smart? Probably not. But I'm not destroying my life, my family's life, or signing a pact with the devil. I don't drink, smoke, gamble, drink coffee, speculate in the markets, I don't travel, or go to concerts. We don't own a house (and the idea that my $10k collection would translate into a 20% down payment is ridiculous). I have a pension, life insurance, I have additional investments called DCP, I have started saving for my kids college, I pay for my kids to be in after school activities, I force my wife to buy clothes and shoes, I take my wife on dates. All of the things I've listed are paid for in cash. Compared to my college debt (which honestly might never be paid off before I die), my CC debt is miniscule and is paid off every year. Both of my kids cost $5k each in health costs. They were more expensive than any card I ever bought.

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I’m guessing that most people who are considering going into debt are looking at buying a card for 5 or 6 figures, maybe more. From the sound of it, you’re sticking to 3 or maybe low 4 figures tops.

I wouldn’t sweat buying a card here and there on your credit card at those prices, although I would encourage you to pay it off quick, because the interest will erode your ability to make additional acquisitions.

[G1911]

Paying in installments is different than going into debt. Though, if one needs or wants to pay in installments instead of up front, that should be a red flag that one is purchasing something that it is not responsible for them to purchase. If it’s too much of a hit to want to see at once, you probably shouldn’t be buying it.


I have paid more than 1% of my cash on hand for a card (not net worth, but liquid cash sitting in the bank) only once. I would guess I am in the bottom 10% of active posters here in net worth as I am young and have not had many earning years. Cards are a hobby. They might make you money over the long haul and they might end up a good investment. Spending your money on cards instead of you and your family’s needs (which kind of has to happen if you’re going into debt because you can’t actually afford the card) is irresponsible. Just as you shouldn’t go into debt to invest in bonds, stocks or crypto you shouldn’t spend more than you have, or most/all of what you actually have, on baseball cards if they are investment. If they are not an investment, it’s even more grossly irresponsible to put yourself into debt for a hobby item for your collection. Housing, food, transportation, retirement, savings for a rainy day, all these need to come first. This should go without saying…

[oldjudge]

Over the years I have both bought and sold on installments or some variation thereof and I can’t think of an issue with either. Oftentimes a buyer may be asset sufficient but cash poor and just needs some time to reallocate things.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

Right? One of the most beautiful cards I've ever seen. I'd trade 10 clown like E90-1 Jacksons for that card.

agreed absolutely beautiful and I to would trade the e90-1 and other quality/rare cards in my collection for that card.

That is a Great Card to me and RARE RARE RARE


Would look nice in a Joe Jackson Collection or by itself

[rats60]

Selling to buy is good in theory, but doesn't always work out. I have borrowed to buy a card. I was bidding and the card went higher than I thought. I decided to place one more bid knowing I would have to borrow to pay and won. My only regrets in this hobby are the things I have not bought, or at least tried harder to buy.

What I don't understand is people borrowing to buy a car (an asset that decreases) or pay for college. Those are things that I would never do. To borrow to buy an asset that will increase in value, under the right circumstances, absolutely.

[JustinD]

I admit to using paypal's zero interest for whatever few months a few times so I can use their free plan to use my money for interest bearing wiser reasons. I have never paid paid them one red cent in interest on it though. In my mind that's not really financing it.

As for financing with a loan or even using a charge card long enough for interest, it's a no.

[Wanaselja]

Originally Posted by rats60

Selling to buy is good in theory, but doesn't always work out. I have borrowed to buy a card. I was bidding and the card went higher than I thought. I decided to place one more bid knowing I would have to borrow to pay and won. My only regrets in this hobby are the things I have not bought, or at least tried harder to buy.

What I don't understand is people borrowing to buy a car (an asset that decreases) or pay for college. Those are things that I would never do. To borrow to buy an asset that will increase in value, under the right circumstances, absolutely.

How does one pay for college without borrowing?

[riggs336]

I've sold stock in order to pay for a high dollar card and never regretted it.

[jingram058]

Several times, on this net54 forum, I was allowed to use the layaway plan to buy cards I simply could not afford to buy all at once. Was that a kind gesture that they did not have to do by the sellers? Absolutely! And because of their kindness I didn't have to go into debt to get cards I really wanted, that have become irreplaceable in my modest collection. Not the same at all as using credit or taking out a loan, and my wife is totally okay with it.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

The truth is that any of us would go into debt to buy a card if the deal is right. I'd happily draw down a $100,000 HELOC to get a T206 Wagner because I could flip it for a large multiple. Now, if you qualify it with provisos like I cannot flip it or it has to be purchased "at market value" (whatever that is; a whole other debate), then the deal doesn't make sense and my answer is "no". I would only go into debt to make money.

Exactly!

What's the card, and what's the deal on it. A valuable card at a crazy price? Yes, I probably would.

Any card at full current retail? Nope.


I was discussing hobby stuff with another collector and we got to talking about some hobbies having things that might be "needed" especially for an exhibit, but that are well out of range in price. He said that going into debt for a collection separates a serious collector from an advanced collector. (Assuming a lack of extreme wealth, which some have had in any collecting field. )

[fisherboy7]

E107 Mathewson - if I had a chance at one, I’d have to think long and hard about financing options.


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[Yoda]

To me, buying cards with credit is akin to trading stocks on margin. Just won't do it.
And, Phil, that TT Jax has been my Moby Dick forever. Just beautiful, you lucky dog. Can I sniff it sometime?

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Wanaselja

How does one pay for college without borrowing?

Four strategies that worked for me, my wife, and for our kids (so far - 2nd one is a freshman now):

1a) Attend a school with relatively affordable tuition. My kids and I both went to a private school, but the tuition was/is not a lot. I paid $1k per semester. My kids are paying $3k per semester. Inflation continues to raise the rates, but compared to places that charge $30k per semester, it's tough to beat the value. That may mean going to a state school or spending a few years at community college first. If all else fails, there's the military and the GI bill, which is how my father did it, after serving in Vietnam for 2 tours as a Marine Scout Sniper.

1b) Study hard and get good grades, and apply for academic scholarships. I got a full-tuition scholarship after my first semester, but had to continue to deliver to keep it. My son just received a full-tuition scholarship as well. My daughter, who just graduated, had a 25% tuition scholarship. Apply yourself, and you will find scholarships are available. At the same time, my wife didn't have one, so this one isn't as important as 1a, but it sure doesn't hurt.

2) Work while in school, including during summer breaks. Especially with current wages, most kids can make good money. My freshman son was making $20 per hour over the summer working in a box factory, 8 hours per day, enough to pay for his freshman year. It was hard work and required him to get up every day at 5am to get to the salt mines and put in his time. I made half that working jobs on campus, but every bit helps.

3) Live frugally. It's called a starving student for a reason. You want to drive a pimped out ride, live in fancy digs, eat at hipster restaurants and travel like a Kardashian on a private jet? When you're making 7 figures, sure. But until then, you're slumming it with a used Corolla, eating ramen and rice, and riding at the back of the plane with inconvenient connections at odd hours.

It can definitely be done. I've done it, and so have many others. But it requires effort, sacrifices and compromises, which seem to be in short supply these days.

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by Wanaselja

How does one pay for college without borrowing?

Rich parents.

[Dead-Ball-Hitter]

Originally Posted by raulus

I could be wrong, but reading between the lines of the OP a little bit, I think the context/situation is one in which you've been jonesing for a card for a long time, and have a chance now to pick it up, but don't have the cash to make it happen.

Although not explicit in the OP, I (perhaps simplistically) assumed that we were talking about a market price, or at least something approximating market, maybe with a slight discount because we all love a good deal when we're buying.

True, as the OP here, that's exactly what I was curious about. If there's something you couldn't generally afford without a loan/line of credit/other terms, would you make the stretch to get it, or be content without it for the present time?

To be honest, I have made a few purchases in the past without the funds available, feeling confident that I could either acquire the funds through sales or otherwise cover the amount in a month or two tops. However, now that I'm older, I'm far more risk averse... also, happy wife, happy life a consideration! I'm fortunate to say my PC is all mine, nothing to pay back to anyone. not so when I was younger...

[rjackson44]

What i dont have today i dont need tomorrow!

[raulus]

Reminds me of this sweet SNL skit from the financial crisis:

https://youtu.be/R3ZJKN_5M44

Because Hollywood is a paragon of financial restraint, natch…

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by raulus

Four strategies that worked for me, my wife, and for our kids (so far - 2nd one is a freshman now):

1a) Attend a school with relatively affordable tuition. My kids and I both went to a private school, but the tuition was/is not a lot. I paid $1k per semester. My kids are paying $3k per semester. Inflation continues to raise the rates, but compared to places that charge $30k per semester, it's tough to beat the value. That may mean going to a state school or spending a few years at community college first. If all else fails, there's the military and the GI bill, which is how my father did it, after serving in Vietnam for 2 tours as a Marine Scout Sniper.

1b) Study hard and get good grades, and apply for academic scholarships. I got a full-tuition scholarship after my first semester, but had to continue to deliver to keep it. My son just received a full-tuition scholarship as well. My daughter, who just graduated, had a 25% tuition scholarship. Apply yourself, and you will find scholarships are available. At the same time, my wife didn't have one, so this one isn't as important as 1a, but it sure doesn't hurt.

2) Work while in school, including during summer breaks. Especially with current wages, most kids can make good money. My freshman son was making $20 per hour over the summer working in a box factory, 8 hours per day, enough to pay for his freshman year. It was hard work and required him to get up every day at 5am to get to the salt mines and put in his time. I made half that working jobs on campus, but every bit helps.

3) Live frugally. It's called a starving student for a reason. You want to drive a pimped out ride, live in fancy digs, eat at hipster restaurants and travel like a Kardashian on a private jet? When you're making 7 figures, sure. But until then, you're slumming it with a used Corolla, eating ramen and rice, and riding at the back of the plane with inconvenient connections at odd hours.

It can definitely be done. I've done it, and so have many others. But it requires effort, sacrifices and compromises, which seem to be in short supply these days.

Curious what private school has a tuition of $3K per semester. Most public schools are more than that.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by jayshum

Curious what private school has a tuition of $3K per semester. Most public schools are more than that.

Brigham Young University

[brunswickreeves]

If you can't afford to buy something twice, you probably shouldn't buy it.

[jeffmohler]

I've been working on my W530 set for about 15 years. The only card I still need is the Wagner. I'd probably be willing to put it on my credit line....

[todeen]

Originally Posted by raulus

Brigham Young University

To those not familiar, BYU is subsidized by church members' monthly donations. Tuition is not subsidized for non-members as far as I know. My wife attended BYU and actually paid her college loan off in 10 years. She also worked during the summers, except the summer she was an intern in DC. I did not attend BYU, but I also don't think I would have been a good fit at any church school.

I attended College of Idaho, private, and the quality of education was worth it. My parents made loan payments for me while I served my mission in Thailand (which cost $10k). I was underwhelmed at academic rigor attending EWU for my second BA. Did not make loan payments while attending EWU. I worked 3-4 part time jobs during the school year (life guard, baker, referee, umpire).

I think my college loans are $60k right now. But I also didn't make payments while getting my MA. And now I'm considering my doctorate. But the profession I'm in is a "more education = more pay" wage ladder. I think it's a racket, but it's the game I chose to play.

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[JimC]

Holy Schneikies, Phil!

[Touch'EmAll]

Now in my 50's would not finance any card. Have learned/resolved myself to the fact I have a lot of nice cards and my big purchase days might be over - unless I sell something to buy something else.

However, in my 30's and early 40's I did occasionally use the credit card in my pursuit a few T206 HOFers. I remember paying off the credit card within a couple months. I still have all my T206 HOFers in 5 & 6 grades. They sure are pretty. And with the recent market boom, extremely happy to have acquired them when I did ... and how I did, or else I would not have been able to get my hands on them.

[bbcard1]

I would no for a card for my collection, but would for a collection I could flip pretty fast. Honestly, I'd want to double my money in fairly short order to be excited about going that route.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by riggs336

I've sold stock in order to pay for a high dollar card and never regretted it.

I did as well, and over the last 2 or 3 years have done the opposite. Selling cards, and buying stocks

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Wanaselja

How does one pay for college without borrowing?

In my family no one borrows for college...or grad school. We figure it out. We started saving for my daughter's college when she was born and we never stopped. She is completing a masters at Columbia this year and will graduate debt-free...but only because she is living with relatives in NYC. Undergrad was a state school, and even so, we had to sacrifice a lot of luxuries (and I had to sell a lot of cards) to pay for it. My parents did the same for me--well, not the card bit, but I got a full ride.

Totally worth every dime, IMO.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by todeen

To those not familiar, BYU is subsidized by church members' monthly donations. Tuition is not subsidized for non-members as far as I know.

For non-members, the cost is about double that of members.

At the same time, if memory serves, the relatively few non-members (maybe 1% of the student body) who attend are mostly on the football team, many of whom have scholarships. From my experience, the majority of the remaining non-members come from conservative backgrounds (including foreign countries) who are looking for a US education without the party culture.

When I was at BYU, in rough percentages, the church paid for about 70% of the cost, with alumni donations covering 10%, and 20% from tuition. It's possible that the percentages have moved over the years.

There's no question that this school is not for everyone. I'm not advocating that someone should attend simply because it's a good deal. But there are plenty of public universities where in-state tuition is in the $3k-$6k per semester range. And most community colleges are less. So it's not like there are no good schools that are relatively affordable.

I will also disclose that my son was also accepted to Stanford. They declined to offer him an academic scholarship, and he didn't qualify for need-based aid. Tuition + room/board at Stanford ~$75k per year. He decided not to attend Stanford, primarily because $300k for an undergraduate education seemed like a whole lot of bread, particularly for an 18-year old boy who changes his major every 2 weeks, and therefore has no ability to assess whether his TBD major is even offered at Stanford, or whether that TBD major is a major where Stanford excels.

[Wanaselja]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

In my family no one borrows for college...or grad school. We figure it out. We started saving for my daughter's college when she was born and we never stopped. She is completing a masters at Columbia this year and will graduate debt-free...but only because she is living with relatives in NYC. Undergrad was a state school, and even so, we had to sacrifice a lot of luxuries (and I had to sell a lot of cards) to pay for it. My parents did the same for me--well, not the card bit, but I got a full ride.

Totally worth every dime, IMO.

I was speaking more about those of us who’s parents could not afford to pay or help with our college and who graduated in debt but also in a position to use that degree to pursue professional endeavors that will allow us to pay for our kids education in 14+ years. Paying for community college through hard work isn’t too difficult. 5 years of architecture school is.

That being said I need a Green Cobb to complete my T206 HOF portrait run. If the right one pops up I’ll buy on credit and pay it off when I pay myself at years end.

[Bobbycee]

I probably wouldn't finance a card, although I would consider doing it for a PSA 2 Demmitt or O'Hara over a few months. But currently, you'd have to open an line of equity to do it.

[bmattioli]

I scrap metal, collect cans and bottles and even metal detect for cash to spend on my hobbies. Would never put any purchases otherwise..

[todeen]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

In my family no one borrows for college...or grad school. We figure it out. We started saving for my daughter's college when she was born and we never stopped. She is completing a masters at Columbia this year and will graduate debt-free...but only because she is living with relatives in NYC. Undergrad was a state school, and even so, we had to sacrifice a lot of luxuries (and I had to sell a lot of cards) to pay for it. My parents did the same for me--well, not the card bit, but I got a full ride.

Totally worth every dime, IMO.

My dad tried to save for college. He saved $20k each for my sister's and me. I was the only one to go to college. After two years of running start, I entered school as a junior and $20k paid for about one year of tuition at private school. My sister used her cash as a down payment on a house. I don't know what my other sister did with hers.

But my father was blown away by the cost. He graduated in 1970. He talked about paying $250 in 1966 for his first semester, then he joined ROTC. ROTC put him on scholarship after that. He thought I was a fool for going to private school, but looking back on it private school was worth every dime. It opened up a lot of doors for me. I consolidated my debt, $300/month for 30 yrs. It is what it is. I've often wondered if I made the right choice, and I'm know other teachers question whether going to college to become a teacher is a smart ROI.

Here's the paradox. I was making $55k in Walla Walla as a teacher. It's a small rural town. Compared to Spokane, which is 15x larger, Walla Walla had higher housing costs (until COVID), and higher gas prices. I moved to Spokane last year, and now I'm making $25k per year more but my costs remain the same as Walla Walla. You wonder why there's a teacher shortage? This is partially why. Salaries are so different district-to-district regardless of housing and other regular living costs. It's very arbitrary. We never dreamed of buying a house in Walla Walla on my salary. That dream is becoming more of an option now that we're in a big city.

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[robertsmithnocure]

Originally Posted by jeffmohler

I've been working on my W530 set for about 15 years. The only card I still need is the Wagner. I'd probably be willing to put it on my credit line....

Here you go:

https://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball/1...ription-071515

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by robertsmithnocure

Here you go:

https://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball/1...ription-071515

Why would Heritage not send this back to SGC to be reslabbed/ list such a nice card in a cracked flip? And the crack goes right into Hans’ head! I am a fan of Heritage generally, but I think this may be another sigh of AHs either being too big to mind the details or to care about them.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Why would Heritage not send this back to SGC to be reslabbed/ list such a nice card in a cracked flip? And the crack goes right into Hans’ head! I am a fan of Heritage generally, but I think this may be another sigh of AHs either being too big to mind the details or to care about them.

Maybe the consignor declined to have it fixed? Or spend the money on it?

Or maybe all of the AHs have just gotten so big that they don’t have time for details?

[Schwertfeger1007]

I'm surprised to see the resounding NO from members in here. To each their own.

When I had the chance to purchase my white whale a few months ago I didn't hesitate. It took some crafty maneuvering including gold, cash and a creative payment plan but the deal got done. Thanks in large part to a N54 member who I had done many deals with in the past.

I do think there's a difference between "going into debt" and reallocating non-liquid investments, but the OP'ers intent was (I think) to see some images of peoples dream cards NOT to be given a lesson in responsible budgeting.

Anyways...how sexy is this Nichols??

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Schwertfeger1007

I'm surprised to see the resounding NO from members in here. To each their own.

When I had the chance to purchase my white whale a few months ago I didn't hesitate. It took some crafty maneuvering including gold, cash and a creative payment plan but the deal got done. Thanks in large part to a N54 member who I had done many deals with in the past.

I do think there's a difference between "going into debt" and reallocating non-liquid investments, but the OP'ers intent was (I think) to see some images of peoples dream cards NOT to be given a lesson in responsible budgeting.

Anyways...how sexy is this Nichols??

Questions like this always seem to invoke predictable righteous indignation, but my guess is that the real answer is that if the card was important enough to the person, the opportunity was unlikely to come along again, and they could afford it, they well might do it.