Does Pre-war mean pre-1939?

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Cozumeleno

That's my article, so I'll chime in.

First, since there's some confusion, as a point of clarification, my definition is pre-1940 cards (i.e. 1939 counts while 1940 doesn't). I realize there are some 1939 issues that technically came after the 'start' of the war but trying to separate those out is virtually impossible.

There's no consensus on it as we see here. My pre-1940 date hinges on the fact that these are called 'pre' war cards. A 1940 card, in my opinion, shouldn't be considered pre-war because war was already occurring. And using dates of when paper rationing started, when cards declined, etc., never really made sense to me. They're called pre-war not pre-paper shortage, etc. I can respect differing opinions on that. I'd just disagree a little there. I mean, if there was no paper shortage at all, does that mean we don't have a pre-war era?

I can understand a 1945 date more than I can 1941, to be honest. I interpret pre-war as before the war began but others may interpret it as when the war ended. Again, I don't agree but I can understand that. But 1941 won't ever make sense to me because pre-war cards encompass more than simply U.S. issues. If we're using a country's (in this case, the U.S.) entry date into WWII as the determining factor that means pre-war dates would differ depending on the country someone is in. To me, the era should be the same no matter where you live and having pre-war eras with different dates around the globe seems like it would be far too confusing.

All of that said, I realize there's no consensus, nor will there ever be. But that's my story and I'm sticking to it

Why not use 1931 when Japan invaded Manchuria? Why not use 1935 when Italy invaded Ethiopia and Germany invaded the British and French controlled Saar Valley? Why not choose 1937 when Japan invaded China? Why do you use the date of 1939 when England declared war on Germany instead of the others? You say that was because war was going on, but it was going on those other dates too.

We use World War 2 as a defining event because it is the only time the world was at war. At its peak, there were shooting wars in Europe, Asia, Africa and Oceania. Australia and North America were attacked by the Axis. South American was the only region not under direct attack, although there was fighting with uboats in the Caribbean and South Atlantic. Many Latin American countries declared war on the Axis and Brazil fought along side the Allies.

The 1941 date is the only one that makes sense to me. In 1939 it was a European war much like WW1, Germany vs. England. The "World War" broke out in 1941 with 2 events. Germany breaking their non aggression pact with
Russia bringing them into the war. Japan deciding to go to war with USA, England and the Netherlands and attacking Pearl Harbor. These two events brought the other 3 major military forces into the war, Russia, Japan and USA and caused most countries in the world to align themselves with one side or the other. I choose the date when the war started in full for the world and not a European date or date of another regional conflict.

[ruth_rookie]

I just did a search for “pre-war cards” on eBay, which listed everything 1941 and earlier. And since we all know eBay knows everything (LOLOLOL) that settles it.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by Leon

The middle one is disqualified because I can't pronounce. it.
.

I thought Interregnum was something you rub on sore joints?

[Cozumeleno]

I use 1939 because that is the most generally accepted date for the beginning of World War II. Really, you could list all sorts of conflicts that appeared before then. But 1939 is hardly my own random date and, whether the best theoretical date or not, it's the date that is most accepted universally as 'the beginning' of World War II.

Originally Posted by rats60

Why not use 1931 when Japan invaded Manchuria? Why not use 1935 when Italy invaded Ethiopia and Germany invaded the British and French controlled Saar Valley? Why not choose 1937 when Japan invaded China? Why do you use the date of 1939 when England declared war on Germany instead of the others? You say that was because war was going on, but it was going on those other dates too.

We use World War 2 as a defining event because it is the only time the world was at war. At its peak, there were shooting wars in Europe, Asia, Africa and Oceania. Australia and North America were attacked by the Axis. South American was the only region not under direct attack, although there was fighting with uboats in the Caribbean and South Atlantic. Many Latin American countries declared war on the Axis and Brazil fought along side the Allies.

The 1941 date is the only one that makes sense to me. In 1939 it was a European war much like WW1, Germany vs. England. The "World War" broke out in 1941 with 2 events. Germany breaking their non aggression pact with
Russia bringing them into the war. Japan deciding to go to war with USA, England and the Netherlands and attacking Pearl Harbor. These two events brought the other 3 major military forces into the war, Russia, Japan and USA and caused most countries in the world to align themselves with one side or the other. I choose the date when the war started in full for the world and not a European date or date of another regional conflict.

[familytoad]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

What we need is an official hobby definition of terms such as pre war, vintage, variation, master set, and rookie card. Whoever is in charge of this hobby should clearly define these terms

Well I always assumed that Leon, Frank B & Brian P ( beme) were in charge of this hobby along with you, Al...

What’s your Official “ PreWar Monster Kraken “ number? And how do you define that count?

[JollyElm]

(I'm going to take a pseudo-intellectual approach to the topic...)

Everything is always about hindsight. Looking back, it is generally accepted that WWII 'began' in 1939. However, if you took a time machine back to 1939, I highly doubt the events going on were thought of as a full scale war to the vast majority of the world. Since (as I'm sure others have noted) we know how the war escalated, eventually consumed the planet, and finally came to an end in 1945, finding the true beginning is nothing more than a scholarly pursuit. But since the US is the center of the baseball card collecting universe, WWII began for us on December 7, 1941 (FDR/Congress declared it as such the following day). So, unless card sets were produced and distributed in the last month of 1941, you would almost have to say pre-war is anything before 1942.

[insidethewrapper]

I thought pre-war was anything before 1861.

[JollyElm]

Time to change the name to the "Antebellum" section.

[obcbobd]

Originally Posted by seanofjapan

Really it makes no sense to draw a line between pre and post war since they don’t run consecutively. A more accurate periodization I think would be

Pre 1941 = prewar
1942-1947 = interregnum
After 1948 = postwar

You seem to have 1941 and 1948 as orphans :-)