What would YOU like to see in a online auction?

[darwinbulldog]

If the card is worth $125, and you have a 20% buyer's premium and an $8 shipping charge, the bidding should open at $25 or $50, not $100.

[packs]

There is no reason to charge a seller a consignment fee if you're charging the buyer a buyer's premium. Please justify that for me with a logical reason that doesn't boil down to "so I can make money" and I'll happily consign.

[darwinbulldog]

It probably goes without saying if you aren't Hunt, but it would be nice to include a scan of the back of the card too.

And anything you can do to attract consignments of types that haven't shown up at auction since the Heritage Leon Luckey type card auction would be appreciated.

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

I prefer to see auction houses run by people who know a great deal about the subject matter, in fact I would consider that an absolute necessity.

Being a relative newcomer to the field doesn’t give anyone a free pass to open an auction house, what exactly would you provide to your consignors? Not trying to be rude but you have asked some pretty rudimentary questions over the past few months and not sure why you think this would be a great idea. Again, if you you decide to take this on I wish you luck I just don’t know that this would be a successful venture for you.

For a single item I would agree. The only time I could see charging a sellers fee is if there is a lot of work involved.

Example would be organizing lots into making sense for buyers.

Say you're given 2000 cards of all different years. In order to maximize profit, you are going to have to strategize and come up with a plan to make the lot more attractive which would most likely involve breaking them down into smaller lots and taking detailed scans.

Another example would be a huge lot of stubs. In order to maximize profits, you're gonna want to list each date as well as any noteworthy events to help the lots garner as much attention and money as possible.

Would you agree with that?

[Orioles1954]

Originally Posted by aquarian sports cards

there's a reason they "used to" and even then they weren't shipping for free. And please don't think i'm somehow ripping them, their margins are pretty much the smallest i've seen. If they can make it work at those numbers they are paragons of efficiency or something.

Let's look at their september auction.

Approximately 650 lots, let's say they averaged $200 per item, and i think that's more than fair when you see how many no sales they have, that means they took in $130,000.

So if the 12.5% is all they're taking in, they grossed $16,250.

How much did their custom platform and website cost? Shipping costs besides labor? How much does their real-estate cost them, office, warehouse etc...

How many salaries have to be paid out of that. Graphic designers? Shippers? Customer service? How about the owner?

How many auctions do they run each year four? That's a gross profit of $65,000 that's not a business, that's a hobby. Out of that comes all the aforementioned expenses before any profit is made.

Again i'm waiting for any business owner to tell me that's a sustainable model. How many of you would be willing to work for $65,000 a year, let alone try and run a business off of it???

+1. There is a definite plus/minus factor to one person "boutique" auctions and multi-person organizations.

[Orioles1954]

Originally Posted by EYECOLLECTVINTAGE

For a single item I would agree. The only time I could see charging a sellers fee is if there is a lot of work involved.

Example would be organizing lots into making sense for buyers.

Say you're given 2000 cards of all different years. In order to maximize profit, you are going to have to strategize and come up with a plan to make the lot more attractive which would most likely involve breaking them down into smaller lots and taking detailed scans.

Another example would be a huge lot of stubs. In order to maximize profits, you're gonna want to list each date as well as any noteworthy events to help the lots garner as much attention and money as possible.

Would you agree with that?

I would think most on this site would have a minimum 20+ years in the hobby. If you lack experience, why not just go the eBay consignment route and build trust that way?

[ullmandds]

QUALITY CONSIGNMENTS...NOT ITEMS PURCHASED FROM EBAY OR OTHER AUCTION HOUSES THEN RE-AUCTIONED OFF A MONTH OR TWO LATER. Sorry for the caps tat was an accident!

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

QUALITY CONSIGNMENTS...NOT ITEMS PURCHASED FROM EBAY OR OTHER AUCTION HOUSES THEN RE-AUCTIONED OFF A MONTH OR TWO LATER. Sorry for the caps tat was an accident!

i think the market will dictate that one...if the new auction place gets higher prices..why should they stop...if they get lower prices..the consignments from these sources will stop coming in.

[sycks22]

There's a current auction house (name escapes me) that started without charging a consignment fee or BP, you just paid for advertising in their catalogue. After about 2 or 3 auctions they went back to charging a BP as it must not have been profitable and kind of takes the advertising motivation for the AH if they don't care if their items sell for $10k or $100k.

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

I would think most on this site would have a minimum 20+ years in the hobby. If you lack experience, why not just go the eBay consignment route and build trust that way?

I have over 1800 positive feedback on eBay at 99.9%. Since 2014

I have taken local consignments and sold on eBay.

Id rather not wait 20 years to start haha

I won't be listing Ruth rookies, but I think you could trust someone who's been buying and selling for a while when it comes to selling Items that are self explanatory and or certified by third party companies would you agree?

Also why does eBay deserve 9% when I can attract the same eyeballs through net 54 members and not have to worry about them shutting me down for absolutely no reason at all as you read so many times online.

[ullmandds]

I won't be listing Ruth rookies, but I think you could trust someone who's been buying and selling for a while when it comes to selling Items that are self explanatory and or certified by third party companies would you agree?[/QUOTE]

similar modelled auction houses currently exist...some run by veterans of over 30 yrs in the hobby...not sure how many this hobby can sustain?

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

I won't be listing Ruth rookies, but I think you could trust someone who's been buying and selling for a while when it comes to selling Items that are self explanatory and or certified by third party companies would you agree?

similar modelled auction houses currently exist...some run by veterans of over 30 yrs in the hobby...not sure how many this hobby can sustain?[/QUOTE]



That's what makes America so great. All you need is a dream and passion and you can possibly carve yourself out a little slice of the pie. How big who knows?

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by keithsky

No hidden reserves. If you need a reserve on an item mention it. I think Iconic Auctions are the worst for that. Not sure anyone ever wins anything because most of it is on ebay then ends up back on there.

Dead on about Iconic, gotten to the point I don't even look at their auctions. I'm sure it's all in-house bidding or hidden reserves.

One of thee worst in the business.

[sb1]

Originally Posted by Mark70Z

1. No seller fee
2. Reasonable shipping/free shipping
3. Low buyer premium
4. Quality photos of the item
5. An auction end time
6. PayPal option
7. Quick turnaround

Quite happy that I believe I fit 5 of the above 7,(1,2,3,4 &7). On #5 having each lot end individually comes close to that, which we started using several years ago. I don't ever see Paypal as an option at my 12 1/2% buyers premium(which it always has been, another post was in error stating it was 10% at one time).

Further I pay the consignors the second Monday after each auction ends(or before). While I do have the low budget advantage to enable the low BP of no employees, it does get me behind on shipping ocassionally. Other than that the model seems to work. Will I ever be as big as Heritage or REA? No...that was never the goal when Leon and I started the business, it was to give the smaller guys a place to consign their material without it all being tossed into one lot and the smaller buyer to buy cards one at a time under $50-100 and not have to buy an entire group for a single card. Also for sellers we tried to provide an alternative of not having to go the ebay route and spend all of the selling time of scanning, listing and packing, and paying 13-15% of the take to ebay/paypal.

Thanks for the kind words from the folks that both buy and sell through my auctions.

Scott

www.brockelmanauctions.com

[vintagerookies51]

I've always thought of doing this someday, but probably very far into the future (if this is still a hobby). Would be so cool dealing with hundreds of pieces of baseball history all day

[sb1]

Originally Posted by vintagerookies51

I've always thought of doing this someday, but probably very far into the future (if this is still a hobby). Would be so cool dealing with hundreds of pieces of baseball history all day

For every hour of that, there are five of scanning and five more of shipping, not all that glamorous or entertaining

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by sb1

Quite happy that I believe I fit 5 of the above 7,(1,2,3,4 &7). On #5 having each lot end individually comes close to that, which we started using several years ago. I don't ever see Paypal as an option at my 12 1/2% buyers premium(which it always has been, another post was in error stating it was 10% at one time).

Further I pay the consignors the second Monday after each auction ends(or before). While I do have the low budget advantage to enable the low BP of no employees, it does get me behind on shipping ocassionally. Other than that the model seems to work. Will I ever be as big as Heritage or REA? No...that was never the goal when Leon and I started the business, it was to give the smaller guys a place to consign their material without it all being tossed into one lot and the smaller buyer to buy cards one at a time under $50-100 and not have to buy an entire group for a single card. Also for sellers we tried to provide an alternative of not having to go the ebay route and spend all of the selling time of scanning, listing and packing, and paying 13-15% of the take to ebay/paypal.

Thanks for the kind words from the folks that both buy and sell through my auctions.

Scott

www.brockelmanauctions.com

I hope it didn't get lost in my post how much respect I have for you. I think you do it right, to the point where I don't understand how you can do it!

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by sb1

For every hour of that, there are five of scanning and five more of shipping, not all that glamorous or entertaining

+1

When I ran my first major auction in 1998, it was the most exciting thing I had ever done in the hobby. Ten years later, when I did my last one, I was completely spent. It's a business like any other, and while it's great handling all sorts of cool memorabilia, it is cutthroat and very competitive.

Best thing to do Stephen is review all the things that seem to be most desired by collectors, and try to incorporate as many of them as you can. Be honest, which I believe you are, and treat customers fairly.

And the hardest part of putting an auction together is getting quality consignments. There is no shortage of mediocre material out there, but the really good pieces can be tough to get. Wish you luck with it.

[sb1]

In response to Scott's post above Barry's

No not at all.

Firstly I don't do it to make a living, could I? yes, I would just have to get more consignments and do more auctions, which would be more travel and shows, being in TX rather than the NE I am at a huge disadvantage, to the proximity and cost of attending most of the shows. So I rely on my network of consignors and the several new ones I get each auction for material. My advantage there is my long time in the hobby as a collector, so many people are familiar with me on that basis and choose to sell thru me, by shipping to me and not dropping off at the shows.

By and large the format works, it would just need more volume to be my only source of income, as it does generate a profit each auction. Keep in mind I am also really tight. I reuse a lot of mailing boxes and take advantage of postal flat rate boxes and use Collectible private insurance etc. You won't get a fancy triple boxed single card wrapped in tape with my name on it

[Stampsfan]

Originally Posted by sb1

For every hour of that, there are five of scanning and five more of shipping, not all that glamorous or entertaining

+1.
Sounds like most small businesses, where you're working more hours than you ever expected, spend too many hours dealing with a small few unreasonable customers, and at the end of the day, find you're making way less per hour than you should, given teh workload.

Stephen, I admire your dreams, but you're not exactly coming into this with eyes wide open, and a fresh new idea. Like many fresh faced, it always appears to be much easier than it actually is. And much harder to complete.

It's one thing to sell some items on eBay, quite another to run a production like a full fledged auction house. Perhaps even start with getting some software written or purchased that will properly run the auction side of the business first. Integrate that software with your accounting software. Set up an agreement with FedEx to get your items shipped to you and from you under your insurance. Get a storage facility with the proper 24 hour security, where you can store your consignments. Work on marketing and promotion to get your consignments, and a solid customer base.

This is just off the top of my head, and I know nothing about how the auction business works. But of course, I could easily run one. As Fr@nk Burke++ said in a post, "I want to be an architect. What kind of pencil do I need?" (I use that line now, it says it all)

To prove your grassroots ideas to everyone, and your "StickToItNess", stick to your first venture here which was trading up a paper clip (or something) for a '52 Mantle. When you complete that task, I'll believe in the seriousness of your next venture, starting up an auction house.

[Snapolit1]

I think the largest impediment to become truly knowledgeable in this field is that to really know, I think you have to have years of experience of items actually in your hands. I think there is only so much you can learn by looking at pictures on the Internet. Others may disagree. Trying to be an expert in cards or memorabilia by just looking at scans on the Internet seems to me a lot like try to be a good doctor but never actually laying hands on patients.

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

Originally Posted by Stampsfan

+1.

To prove your grassroots ideas to everyone, and your "StickToItNess", stick to your first venture here which was trading up a paper clip (or something) for a '52 Mantle. When you complete that task, I'll believe in the seriousness of your next venture, starting up an auction house.

Thanks for the post. I am currently having the 1954 bowman set auctioned off at heritage in a few weeks. I am still going to trade up to that Mantle. I wasn't looking to launch a auction in the next month I was thinking more a year or so.

Hopefully I can get this mantle by then.

[Leon]

You might brush up on your English a bit. That is the easy part. I need to brush up on mine too.
Ok, back to getting consignments. That will be your toughest job. There is no silver bullet just a lot of hard work. That and keep your expenses to as nil as possible.

But if you ask what do I want to see in an auction company, it's back to no buyers or sellers fees and no shipping charge.

[oldjudge]

Right now we have two great auction houses, REA and Heritage, and more smaller auction houses than ever. You need to ask yourself why consignors need you. Consignors make the auctions; bidders follow the material. Also, great material will not now flow to auctions without elaborate catalogs; are you willing to incur this expense?

[mechanicalman]

A question I would ask the OP or anyone interested in this path, why does the world need yet another AH? There's already at least 20 AHs, each offering some derivation of the same theme. Do you guys realize how many more cards we'd all own if we didn't have to pay a 12.5-30% margin for someone to broker our transactions?

Why not think bigger and create a different model to facilitate the buying and selling of cards and memorabilia? Think of a BST on steroids, where you create a platform that allows for a high volume of transactions between buyers and sellers with the "house" just taking a small cut (3-5 pts) in exchange for programming and managing the platform. Sellers can manage the "marketing" of their goods and their own shipments. Sellers and buyers could be vetted by the platform and kept honest by higher levels of transparency you'd find on eBay. PayPal still offers Buyer protection, or an escrow service could be used for high-value transactions.

Obviously, I haven't thought through all the details here, but I'm not personally interested in starting a business card related business. But if I was, I wouldn't focus on the equivalent of launching a better taxi company; I'd shoot to launch the equivalent of Uber.

[oldjudge]

Sam-What it sound like you are proposing is a card marketplace with the entrepreneur assuming the role as an intermediary. This is effectively what the Ebay BIN market is. Ebay assures the buyer that they will stand behind the transaction. To have any chance of being successful on a commercial scale I believe that a similar marketplace would have to do the same. This is not a business I would want to run.

[vintagerookies51]

Originally Posted by sb1

For every hour of that, there are five of scanning and five more of shipping, not all that glamorous or entertaining

True. Takes me a good while to just scan and ship a few cards I'm sure a lot of auction houses have staff that do that though

[bigfish]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

A question I would ask the OP or anyone interested in this path, why does the world need yet another AH? There's already at least 20 AHs, each offering some derivation of the same theme. Do you guys realize how many more cards we'd all own if we didn't have to pay a 12.5-30% margin for someone to broker our transactions?

Why not think bigger and create a different model to facilitate the buying and selling of cards and memorabilia? Think of a BST on steroids, where you create a platform that allows for a high volume of transactions between buyers and sellers with the "house" just taking a small cut (3-5 pts) in exchange for programming and managing the platform. Sellers can manage the "marketing" of their goods and their own shipments. Sellers and buyers could be vetted by the platform and kept honest by higher levels of transparency you'd find on eBay. PayPal still offers Buyer protection, or an escrow service could be used for high-value transactions.

Obviously, I haven't thought through all the details here, but I'm not personally interested in starting a business card related business. But if I was, I wouldn't focus on the equivalent of launching a better taxi company; I'd shoot to launch
the equivalent of Uber.

This is a good thought. Go for it.

[h2oya311]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

A question I would ask the OP or anyone interested in this path, why does the world need yet another AH? There's already at least 20 AHs, each offering some derivation of the same theme. Do you guys realize how many more cards we'd all own if we didn't have to pay a 12.5-30% margin for someone to broker our transactions?

Why not think bigger and create a different model to facilitate the buying and selling of cards and memorabilia? Think of a BST on steroids, where you create a platform that allows for a high volume of transactions between buyers and sellers with the "house" just taking a small cut (3-5 pts) in exchange for programming and managing the platform. Sellers can manage the "marketing" of their goods and their own shipments. Sellers and buyers could be vetted by the platform and kept honest by higher levels of transparency you'd find on eBay. PayPal still offers Buyer protection, or an escrow service could be used for high-value transactions.

Obviously, I haven't thought through all the details here, but I'm not personally interested in starting a business card related business. But if I was, I wouldn't focus on the equivalent of launching a better taxi company; I'd shoot to launch the equivalent of Uber.

Didn't SportsCardLink create an "Exchange" to try to do exactly this? And isn't COMC doing something similar (but where they take possession of the cards)...IMO, neither of these have enough legs to overtake eBay. But the concept seems like it should work.

[conor912]

Is there a way to monetize my idea for a new BST section? Like an auction house that specializes in bulk lots? I still feel like there's opportunity there. Maybe it could incorporate PWCCs program where you can pay for your winnings with consignments? That would allow people to effectively trade, if the so choose, all the while the house taking, say, 5% along the way. Just spit balling here.

[cardsnstuff]

For those that are really creative; I think the following could be huge.

A marketplace where buyers post their "buy prices"; like the old Naxcom, in the grade desired, quantity wanted, etc. And than sellers click & can sell cards to them. Tracking is req'd. When a seller goes to sell a item, they are paid instantly or when package is accepted by PO via paypal. This would be great for all the set builders, etc. If the buyer isn't happy with the condition he can return item for refund. There would need to be securities put in place to prevent fraud. I don't think you can ever completely remove this element but you can prevent it and abuse.

FYI: Leon, I was thinking of this as new BST board too.
Break down posts by sport, year, etc. And people enter their needs and buy prices and so on.

[deagleii]

I am so tired of getting burned on unauthentic items. How about mandatory 2 independent authenticators already approving the items.

[buymycards]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

There's a reason they "used to" a

How much did their custom platform and website cost? Shipping costs besides labor? How much does their real-estate cost them, office, warehouse etc...

How many salaries have to be paid out of that. Graphic designers? Shippers? Customer Service? How about the owner?

How many auctions do they run each year four? That's a GROSS profit of $65,000 That's not a business, that's a hobby. Out of that comes ALL the aforementioned expenses before any profit is made.

Don't forget, after the expenses are deducted from the $65K, you will need to pay both the employers and the employees share of Social Security and Medicare, which is around 15%, plus 15% or more in Federal taxes, plus, some state taxes, which in Wisconsin, could be around 5%.

[steve B]

I think in some areas there's room for a smaller, more local auction. Halls did it for years- maybe 20+? I forget when the first ones were.

That being said, they were live and added online, and had a TON of work to get each auction done while rounding up more stuff for the next auction.

The guys to listen to the most are the ones doing it or who have done it in the past. Like Barry Sloate. (Always nice stuff, unfortunately also too nice for my budget, but that's auctions for you. - I was also too disorganized to bid. )

A couple things were just brushed on, and you might not get much advice on them either because it's the stuff that really makes an auction, is finding stuff and a client list.
Getting new stuff is a long process. Lots of networking, lots of asking if someone was interested in selling some stuff. Maybe years of waiting. I was a Halls customer since 1977, and ran into the first collection that was both available to me and that I knew was more than I could handle in 2009. I finally consigned some stuff of my own in 2010. (Mostly extra stuff that I felt had to go to make room for my daughter. ) Yes, they took a pretty hefty consignment fee. But I trusted them enough to lot the carload of marginal stuff to maximize the return, and in the end the biggest disappointment was one card that want for about what I could get on Ebay. Other things went for a lot more than they'd bring on ebay and I did no work except to hand them boxes from storage and give them a brief description - Box of cards that used to book for something in 1990- that sort of stuff. (The other collection did very well and I got a nice little surprise bonus for recommending them) < Pay attention to that little bit! If someone basically hands you a 30-60K collection take care of them once you start getting profit from it.

On the sales end.
If getting eyes on stuff through here was all it took, then why bother doing it another way? No overhead of a website and platform, and the same end result. NOPE! One thin that's important is developing a client list. I'd be truly shocked if any of the active auction houses offered any help at all here. The client list is where the real money is. Sure, Ebay gets you seen by thousands, but not all of them are buyers, and not many are buyers with a decent budget. How many of your Ebay customers are repeat customers? When I was selling there the answer for me was "almost none".
The good auctions keep advertising the auctions to their list, Halls sent me an auction - flyer? list? I can't really call it a catalog - for a very long time, even through a several years long period of almost complete inactivity. Towards the end that was costing them a dollar in postage every month. (I felt guilty about not bidding all the time, but kids are expensive!) Plus the envelope, the list itself and their time.
The really big auctions will sometimes call a major client to give them a bit of advance notice on things they know the client really should buy. Followed by a sales pitch along the lines of "this really needs to be in your collection, it's coming 5 months from now. I've never gotten one of those calls, I'm not a big enough fish for that.

Bottom line, it's a ton of work, and you need a really big network and a lot of persistence.
If you do it, good luck!

[Snapolit1]

I'm guessing that would almost never work. As a seller I am really not interested in what you would hope pay, but in what I want. And my experience has almost always been that those numbers are not that close.

The buy prices would be almost always be way too low. Some old VCP price from 2013. Everyone wants a great bargain. And most sellers don't want to give one.

Originally Posted by cardsnstuff

For those that are really creative; I think the following could be huge.

A marketplace where buyers post their "buy prices"; like the old Naxcom, in the grade desired, quantity wanted, etc. And than sellers click & can sell cards to them. Tracking is req'd. When a seller goes to sell a item, they are paid instantly or when package is accepted by PO via paypal. This would be great for all the set builders, etc. If the buyer isn't happy with the condition he can return item for refund. There would need to be securities put in place to prevent fraud. I don't think you can ever completely remove this element but you can prevent it and abuse.

FYI: Leon, I was thinking of this as new BST board too.
Break down posts by sport, year, etc. And people enter their needs and buy prices and so on.

[drcy]

I would think a viable way to start an auction house is to have a top and highly respected expert in the material. If Jim Stinson started an autograph auction house, he'd have a strong audience right away from all the people concerned with authenticity.

All the auction format, fees and shipping cost stuff is a distant afterthought to the above.