What makes a great show?

[Rich Klein]

Originally Posted by Jewish-collector

I agree with Val. The Chantilly show hasn't changed much since Marco used to run it. It is a fantastic show !!!

Years ago, there was a dealer in New York State that used to have a show that dealers could only sell pre-1975 cards and/or memorabilia. I'm not sure how that show did, but that was a unique concept.

Originally that was Ed Keetz, and IIRC -- you could kind of sell more modern cards BUT you could not display any post-1980 cards in your showcase or unopened or memorabilia.

Rich

[cool-vintage]

For me it's: Free admission, plenty of space, and the selection of cards (I like having more than one sport and also having modern and vintage.)

[Huck]

Originally Posted by ValKehl

Dean,
What I am sensing from item 1. of your post is that the Chantilly Show (CSA) is no longer a joy to attend because it has not been well run since Marco Rol's departure. I can only speak as a collector who has not missed a Chantilly Shoe (as best as I can remember) for many years. But, I have not sensed any significant change and/or decline in the Show post Marco. Actually, I feel there have been some improvements recently - e.g., a few more vintage dealers, a TPG accepting subs, and more auction houses present (REA, LOTG, Sterling, etc.). Why do you feel as you do - are you speaking from a dealer's perspective?
Val

Val,

That was not my intention but I can see how one could glean that from my post. CSA is still the likely #1 promoter on the East coast, definitely #1 in the DMV. The new crew seems to lean far, far, far more toward football (which I don't collect) than baseball. Marco did a much better job of getting at least the current hof class in for a signing. I get the business model of football is king, but this coming show is the first in the last three shows with a decent baseball guest list. I am not asking for the world, I sent CSA an e-mail just asking to throw we baseball guys a bone with some meat on it every now and then. I am reasonable man. When I attend, the show is still enjoyable. The last show was the first show I have missed in over a decade! I also wish that CSA would adjust one show date that would allow current players and those who work for MLB as potential guests. The current March, July, October dates just doesn't work for those who work in baseball.

[Stetson_1883]

A good show?

Whatever this weekend's Dania show was NOT.

[Mdmtx]

One of my pet peeves have always been the dealers packing up early. I understand there can be a few that have schedule conflict, but mass amounts bailing early is poor form in my opinion. Each dealer should have to get permission for early departure or risk not being sold a table next event. I believe it shows a huge lack of professionalism and it bothered me when I used to setup at shows because I felt it limited sales and it bothers me as a collector when I have made the commitment to be there during advertised hours, but it isn't what was advertised.

Mark

[Rich Klein]

Mark:

To be fair to those dealers packing up early, sometimes they have to drive long distances to get back home. I know Mike Mowrey from Arkansas likes to pack up a bit early as he has a 5 plus hour drive back to his home.

And if the show has been slow or there is a reason to get out of a show, then they do need to leave to get home. Always a case by case basis.

Gloria Rothstein was real good about ensuring dealers stayed to the very end (or almost the very end) unless you spoke to her beforehand. But even Gloria would let you leave early if a show did not live up to expectations. Gloria tried some other locations to expand her show and one show went so badly she walked around at 1 PM on Sunday and told the dealers they were free to leave.

Dallas is a truly strange market in that most of the shows continue PAST the scheduled closing time as the dealers do most of their business after the show than before the show. So I bet in Dallas, if you come in as a show is ending you will usually find some vendors still there.

Rich

[skelly]

I agree with Mark, at least here on the east coast, dealers packing up early is a huge issue. Basically most shows advertise as 9-3 and the place is wrapped up by 1:30-2:00. Collectors know the dealers will pack up early, so no one bothers to come after noon time. Kind of a vicious cycle. I guess the answer would be to just run the show from 9-12 and If the dealers want to stay a little later, that could be up to them.

[buymycards]

Hi Rich, you should look at the other side of this. Many customers also drive a long distance and it isn't fair to them to have half of the dealers gone when they arrive. A few years ago I went to a large show at the Rosemont in Chicago. I made the mistake of going on Sunday. When I arrived, it was around 10:30. By noon many of the dealers were gone and many more were packing up. An 8 hour round trip was wasted.

Also, for you dealers, bring some change. I can't believe how many dealers can't break a ten dollar bill. For you customers, you should also bring some ones, fives, and tens to save yourself some hassle.

Rick

[Mdmtx]

Rich,

I agree100% if someone has a conflict such as a long drive or previous commitment. But you never know when that one guy is going to walk in and plunk down big money. In my opinion if a show is advertised to go until X time, the majority should be there until X time. Nobody can know for certain what buyers are coming. You may be able to make an educated guess, but nobody can truly know.

On another note I think it helps in the professionalism if the dealer stands (if possible) and greets the customers. These purchases are all of a 1st world issue and the people that pose as though selling life saving commodities and act gruff and distant turn me off in a big way. Nothing better than a smile, a little bargaining, a couple jokes or anecdotes and a deal followed by a hand shake. This is a fun HOBBY and some seem to forget that. At Rich's shows all the people seem very cordial. Always great to see Roger Neufeldt and the like. I've never seen Rodger in a foul mood and I've known him for 30 years or so now. My comments are in now way a commentary on rich's show. I try to go each month. Actually met Leon face to face last month. Rich does a great job of creating a positive environment.

Mark

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by mdmtx

one of my pet peeves have always been the dealers packing up early. I understand there can be a few that have schedule conflict, but mass amounts bailing early is poor form in my opinion. Each dealer should have to get permission for early departure or risk not being sold a table next event. I believe it shows a huge lack of professionalism and it bothered me when i used to setup at shows because i felt it limited sales and it bothers me as a collector when i have made the commitment to be there during advertised hours, but it isn't what was advertised.

Mark

amen

[Rich Klein]

Originally Posted by Mdmtx

Rich,

I agree100% if someone has a conflict such as a long drive or previous commitment. But you never know when that one guy is going to walk in and plunk down big money. In my opinion if a show is advertised to go until X time, the majority should be there until X time. Nobody can know for certain what buyers are coming. You may be able to make an educated guess, but nobody can truly know.

On another note I think it helps in the professionalism if the dealer stands (if possible) and greets the customers. These purchases are all of a 1st world issue and the people that pose as though selling life saving commodities and act gruff and distant turn me off in a big way. Nothing better than a smile, a little bargaining, a couple jokes or anecdotes and a deal followed by a hand shake. This is a fun HOBBY and some seem to forget that. At Rich's shows all the people seem very cordial. Always great to see Roger Neufeldt and the like. I've never seen Rodger in a foul mood and I've known him for 30 years or so now. My comments are in now way a commentary on rich's show. I try to go each month. Actually met Leon face to face last month. Rich does a great job of creating a positive environment.

Mark

+1

[Rich Klein]

Originally Posted by buymycards

Hi Rich, you should look at the other side of this. Many customers also drive a long distance and it isn't fair to them to have half of the dealers gone when they arrive. A few years ago I went to a large show at the Rosemont in Chicago. I made the mistake of going on Sunday. When I arrived, it was around 10:30. By noon many of the dealers were gone and many more were packing up. An 8 hour round trip was wasted.

Also, for you dealers, bring some change. I can't believe how many dealers can't break a ten dollar bill. For you customers, you should also bring some ones, fives, and tens to save yourself some hassle.

Rick

Rick:

I get it as a customer, you want the show to be full when the customers arrive. I was just giving some reasons why some dealers may leave early. So far, we've been lucky at my shows that most dealers have stayed till the end or nearly the end. But I'm never going to refuse someone their right to leave if they paid for their tables, as the saying goes -- it's their money -- and their right. As for me as a promoter -- I stay till closing.

[ValKehl]

Originally Posted by biohazard

Val,

That was not my intention but I can see how one could glean that from my post. CSA is still the likely #1 promoter on the East coast, definitely #1 in the DMV. The new crew seems to lean far, far, far more toward football (which I don't collect) than baseball. Marco did a much better job of getting at least the current hof class in for a signing. I get the business model of football is king, but this coming show is the first in the last three shows with a decent baseball guest list. I am not asking for the world, I sent CSA an e-mail just asking to throw we baseball guys a bone with some meat on it every now and then. I am reasonable man. When I attend, the show is still enjoyable. The last show was the first show I have missed in over a decade! I also wish that CSA would adjust one show date that would allow current players and those who work for MLB as potential guests. The current March, July, October dates just doesn't work for those who work in baseball.

Dean, thanks for your explanation. My collecting focus is pre-War baseball, and I have no interest in autographs, hence I pay no attention to the guest list. And, I always attend on Friday when, as you know, there are no signings taking place. You make a good point re scheduling one show each year outside the baseball season to enable current players, coaches, etc. to be guest signers.
Val

[basesareempty]

Originally Posted by biohazard

Val,

That was not my intention but I can see how one could glean that from my post. CSA is still the likely #1 promoter on the East coast, definitely #1 in the DMV. The new crew seems to lean far, far, far more toward football (which I don't collect) than baseball. Marco did a much better job of getting at least the current hof class in for a signing. I get the business model of football is king, but this coming show is the first in the last three shows with a decent baseball guest list. I am not asking for the world, I sent CSA an e-mail just asking to throw we baseball guys a bone with some meat on it every now and then. I am reasonable man. When I attend, the show is still enjoyable. The last show was the first show I have missed in over a decade! I also wish that CSA would adjust one show date that would allow current players and those who work for MLB as potential guests. The current March, July, October dates just doesn't work for those who work in baseball.

I was told that CSA made Ken Griffey Jr a sizeable 6 figure offer to come to the show next week and he turned them down.

[Rich Klein]

I can tell you stories about what players want to appear and many of them make no economic sense for the promoter

Rich

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

I can tell you stories about what players want to appear and many of them make no economic sense for the promoter

Rich

LOL this is SO true. looks like we're going to sew up a 7x All-star and career .300 hitter with a LONG illustrious career for about half what a 2x All-star who had an 8 year career and was out of the league by 31 years old wanted. The numbers are all over the map.

[bravos4evr]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

LOL this is SO true. looks like we're going to sew up a 7x All-star and career .300 hitter with a LONG illustrious career for about half what a 2x All-star who had an 8 year career and was out of the league by 31 years old wanted. The numbers are all over the map.

hmmm, based off those 2 sets of numbers I think I know who it is!

I'll never tell tho!

[bravos4evr]

btw, not to stray off topic too much, but are there any big shows on the gulf coast anywhere? (or within 3 hours or so?)

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by bravos4evr

hmmm, based off those 2 sets of numbers I think I know who it is!

I'll never tell tho!

Just for fun you (and only you) will win a free autograph of the one we are getting if you're right. Send your answer via PM if you're wrong I'll share. If you're right I'll share after we sign the guest on the dotted line!

[bravos4evr]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Just for fun you (and only you) will win a free autograph of the one we are getting if you're right. Send your answer via PM if you're wrong I'll share. If you're right I'll share after we sign the guest on the dotted line!

PM sent! (and fingers crossed!)

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

He tried Michael Young:

Survey Says

[bravos4evr]

well, in my defense, Young is a 7 time all star with a career .300 avg so.... it wasn't a bad guess

[Huck]

Originally Posted by ValKehl

Dean, thanks for your explanation. My collecting focus is pre-War baseball, and I have no interest in autographs, hence I pay no attention to the guest list. And, I always attend on Friday when, as you know, there are no signings taking place. You make a good point re scheduling one show each year outside the baseball season to enable current players, coaches, etc. to be guest signers.
Val

Val,

When the card companies went completely bonkers during the late 80's and 90's my focus shifted to the autograph/memorabilia side of the hobby. Now, that autograph prices are starting to get ridiculous, my focus has shifted to vintage cards. I don't know if the crowds of people would show up if CSA was just a card show.

[Huck]

Originally Posted by basesareempty

I was told that CSA made Ken Griffey Jr a sizeable 6 figure offer to come to the show next week and he turned them down.

Perhaps, Griffey invested his money well and doesn't need/like to do shows. On one side I am glad to hear that another athlete who made millions is not broke. On the other hand, I wish he would make at least one pass around the autograph circuit.

[Huck]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

I can tell you stories about what players want to appear and many of them make no economic sense for the promoter

Rich

Do you think that Sandy Koufax will ever do another public signing? What is the story with Bobby Cox? After induction, he did a show or two and then *poof* he disappeared.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by biohazard

Val,

When the card companies went completely bonkers during the late 80's and 90's my focus shifted to the autograph/memorabilia side of the hobby. Now, that autograph prices are starting to get ridiculous, my focus has shifted to vintage cards. I don't know if the crowds of people would show up if CSA was just a card show.

This sentiment always bugged me. Like the card companies were printing cards that nobody wanted in order to depress the market later. The boom hit, everyone though that cards were an investment for the future. Put away a case for $100 and in 30 years voila you're rich. Think about what that meant in 1986. They were looking at a 1956 Case (Or Box, or pack, or even card) and thinking: "wow If I buy now in thirty years that could be me." So EVERYONE did it. Even complete non-card people bought cases and squirreled them away. the Card companies didn't go crazy they met the crazy demand, and what red blooded American company that has very little stake in the after market wouldn't do the same???

[NC-Vintage]

Great customer service, A happy customer and or dealer is likely to be the best most cost effective way of advertising.

Giving value for the admission charge.

Quality and variety from your dealers is very important, as is having them
stay set up for the full show hours ( however,this is not always easy)

CSA is unique in the fact that it has massive draw from autograph collectors ( or fan's) but also has a strong base of
vintage card collectors attending the show. Many shows simply fall into one or the other category. With that being said, these are some of the things
we offer to our customers.
Free autographs,cash giveaways,quality door prizes,free gifts etc. These seem to be appreciated by our
customers and dealers. At least that has been my experience thus far. For example we gave away
over $1300 in CSA dealer dollars to our customers for the April Chantilly show, the customers
were very happy as were the dealers when they cashed them in. Also For the last 2 shows we have offered
free unique photo opportunities, in April REA had an incredible amount of items on display and allowed customers
to take free photo's with them,including the T206 Honus Wagner. For July we have Memory Lane allowing
customers to hold and take a photo with a Babe Ruth Game Used Bat.

Free admission time slots, we just introduced free time slots every day of our show,
Friday , Saturday and Sunday has the last 2 hours of the show as free admission, we
are hoping this translates into customers coming in later in the day and encourages dealers
to stay until the end of the show.

Giving value back to the dealers. We allow dealers to configure there space however they would like so they can maximize there set-up.
We also have a lot of space behind as well as in the aisles. We put on a full free buffet breakfast every Sunday of the show for our dealers.
We also give away 1 free table for the next show randomly to one of our dealers.

Promotion,promotion,promotion. It's the promoters job #1 but also the dealers job to promote the show, the more the show is spoken and talked about the
better the chance for success.

[1952boyntoncollector]

I think a speaker to address something interesting about the hobby and go over tid bits...for example talking about the 1933 goudey set or any other set with question and answer

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

So Joe you won't mind if I promote my show this weekend at Chantilly???

[Huck]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

This sentiment always bugged me. Like the card companies were printing cards that nobody wanted in order to depress the market later. The boom hit, everyone though that cards were an investment for the future. Put away a case for $100 and in 30 years voila you're rich. Think about what that meant in 1986. They were looking at a 1956 Case (Or Box, or pack, or even card) and thinking: "wow If I buy now in thirty years that could be me." So EVERYONE did it. Even complete non-card people bought cases and squirreled them away. the Card companies didn't go crazy they met the crazy demand, and what red blooded American company that has very little stake in the after market wouldn't do the same???

The bonkers statement stems from the fact that each company was putting out 3-5 sets of cards. I could not collect them all and grew tired. Yes, the demand was there and I don't begrudge the card companies for trying to make a buck. As a collector who was used to putting one Topps set together, the sheer amount of material out there was overwhelming. I stopped purchasing cards and started diving into autographs and memorabilia.

No, the card companies don't have a stake in the after market but they probably should have thought about what happens when the bubble bursts. How many card companies from the 90's are left? Last I checked, Topps has an MLB exclusive. Greed for lack of a better word, is not always good.

[NC-Vintage]

I encourage you to do so. We have a table out in the front you can put fliers onto also.

[Rich Klein]

Upper Deck is left as well from the early 1990's. And on this one, don't blame the card companies, they were producing to meet demand (and then some). But their job is to make a profit, not to look 20 years down the road.

[bravos4evr]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

Upper Deck is left as well from the early 1990's. And on this one, don't blame the card companies, they were producing to meet demand (and then some). But their job is to make a profit, not to look 20 years down the road.

wrong thread?

[Rich Klein]

Right thread -- someone posted about the 1990's and I did respond to that comment.

Rich

[Leon]

Great response and sounds like a great show coming up too!!

Originally Posted by NC-Vintage

Great customer service, A happy customer and or dealer is likely to be the best most cost effective way of advertising.

Giving value for the admission charge.

Quality and variety from your dealers is very important, as is having them
stay set up for the full show hours ( however,this is not always easy)

CSA is unique in the fact that it has massive draw from autograph collectors ( or fan's) but also has a strong base of
vintage card collectors attending the show. Many shows simply fall into one or the other category. With that being said, these are some of the things
we offer to our customers.
Free autographs,cash giveaways,quality door prizes,free gifts etc. These seem to be appreciated by our
customers and dealers. At least that has been my experience thus far. For example we gave away
over $1300 in CSA dealer dollars to our customers for the April Chantilly show, the customers
were very happy as were the dealers when they cashed them in. Also For the last 2 shows we have offered
free unique photo opportunities, in April REA had an incredible amount of items on display and allowed customers
to take free photo's with them,including the T206 Honus Wagner. For July we have Memory Lane allowing
customers to hold and take a photo with a Babe Ruth Game Used Bat.

Free admission time slots, we just introduced free time slots every day of our show,
Friday , Saturday and Sunday has the last 2 hours of the show as free admission, we
are hoping this translates into customers coming in later in the day and encourages dealers
to stay until the end of the show.

Giving value back to the dealers. We allow dealers to configure there space however they would like so they can maximize there set-up.
We also have a lot of space behind as well as in the aisles. We put on a full free buffet breakfast every Sunday of the show for our dealers.
We also give away 1 free table for the next show randomly to one of our dealers.

Promotion,promotion,promotion. It's the promoters job #1 but also the dealers job to promote the show, the more the show is spoken and talked about the
better the chance for success.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

For those of you wondering about the self-derail a couple pages ago the answer (and our last autograph guest) is Al Oliver.