Why is Phil Rizzuto in the HOF?

[tedzan]

1956 was an amazing year for Mickey.....your Dad picked a great game for you.

Indeed, it was a Triple Crown year with BA = .353, 52 HR, and 130 RBI's.

The last time that a Triple Crown winner hit for that high an Average, and hit over 50 HR's.


Switching back to Rizzuto.....your description of Miss Rizzuto, sounds like you dated Penny.


Take care, John


TED Z
.

[kevinlenane]

Ah okay - i guess my argument was by proxy if Phil is in than Dom should be too and if he's not than does Phil really belong there. HOWEVER, since you agree w my assessment of Dom, my argument is fairly moot While we're at it though, Johnny Pesky was also an absolute beast - batted .307 over 10 seasons and led the league in hits 3 times - alas his career - like Dom's was just too short for the HOF...

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hey Kevin

You'll get no argument from me on Dom DiMaggio.

I saw all those guys play; and, the 2nd team I rooted for when I was a kid was the Red Sox....since I was an avid Ted Williams fan.

Incidentally, it's my understanding that Ted Williams campaigned strongly for Phil Rizzuto to be in the HOF.


TED Z
.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by tedzan

.........................................

Switching back to Rizzuto.....your description of Miss Rizzuto, sounds like you dated Penny

TED Z
.

She's the one with the nice scent, right Ted?

[moeson]

Originally Posted by Yoda

I did see Mantle play. My Dad and I took in a game at Yankee Stadium in 1956, his Triple Crown year, and, hard to believe but true, he hit 2 HR's from the left side and 1 from the right, I think I went away with stars in my eyes, a Mantle man forever. One of the things that sometimes gets overlooked with all his achievements on the diamond is that many consider him the best switch hitter ever. I saw and I believed.

It was actually a May 13, 1955 game:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/bo...95505130.shtml

[Yoda]

I happily stand corrected. Hell, it was a long time ago, but I remember clearly being with my dad, him having a couple of Ballantine Ales and the crack of the bat (it seemed to be louder and sharper) when the Mick launched one. It is very reassuring to know that there is a stats man ready for verification.

[moeson]

Originally Posted by Yoda

I happily stand corrected. Hell, it was a long time ago, but I remember clearly being with my dad, him having a couple of Ballantine Ales and the crack of the bat (it seemed to be louder and sharper) when the Mick launched one. It is very reassuring to know that there is a stats man ready for verification.

I hope you didn't mind. I share similar wonderful memories of going with my dad to the Stadium and rooting for the Mick!

[bbcard1]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It's hard for me to see why Rizzuto should be in, but not Wills.

Interesting old column from the NY Times.
The author did not talk to Ted it appears.
http://www.nytimes.com/1987/03/15/sp...me-432087.html

The difference of being someone who is liked and popular with the media and someone who is perceived if not in fact a little bit of a dick. I met Maury a couple of times including interviewing him and found him to be a nice well mannered man. There are those who knock his career stats, but he was also a revolutionary and that should account for something.

[Peter_Spaeth]

One of the most amazing stats I have seen is stolen base leaders for 1962. In the NL, Wills led with 104. Aparicio led the AL with 31.

[tedzan]

Hey guys

We cannot have a thread on The Scooter without some scans. Here are some not that often seen "oldies but goodies" of him.



........................ 1941 rookie card ...................................... rare Hi # variation ...................... color printing error





TED Z
.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Phi's metrics really don't look very good. One does wonder, with due respect to Ted, how much Yankee bias played into his selection.

Hall Of Fame StatisticsPlayer rank in (·)


Gray Ink Batting - 46 (554), Average HOFer ≈ 144

Hall of Fame Monitor Batting - 87 (207), Likely HOFer ≈ 100

Hall of Fame Standards Batting - 23 (600), Average HOFer ≈ 50

JAWS Shortstop (35th), 40.8 career WAR/33.8 7yr-peak WAR/37.3 JAWS
Average HOF SS (out of 21) = 66.7 career WAR/42.8 7yr-peak WAR/54.8 JAWS

And look at the writers' voting:

Hall of Fame
1956 BBWAA ( 0.5%)
1962 BBWAA (27.5%)
1964 BBWAA (22.4%)
1964 Run Off ( 5.5%)
1966 BBWAA (17.9%)
1967 BBWAA (24.3%)
1967 Run Off ( 4.6%)
1968 BBWAA (26.1%)
1969 BBWAA (22.9%)
1970 BBWAA (26.3%)
1971 BBWAA (25.6%)
1972 BBWAA (26.0%)
1973 BBWAA (29.2%)
1974 BBWAA (30.4%)
1975 BBWAA (32.3%)
1976 BBWAA (38.4%)

[tedzan]

Hey Peter

You (and some others here) are wasting your time trying to play the "numbers game" regarding why Rizzuto should not be in the HOF.

As I have said twice already in this thread, Ted Williams thought very highly of Phil's team play. Furthermore, Ted considered Phil to be
a very key factor in the Yankees winning 8 - AL Championships in the course of 10 years.

Therefore, Ted was very instrumental getting Phil into the HOF.

Now, tell me....who are we to question Ted Williams' opinion of a player (Rizzuto) that he closely observed for 12 years of his career ? ?


TED Z
.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hey Peter

You (and some others here) are wasting your time trying to play the "numbers game" regarding why Rizzuto should not be in the HOF.

As I have said twice already in this thread, Ted Williams thought very highly of Phil's team play. Furthermore, Ted considered Phil to be
a very key factor in the Yankees winning 8 - AL Championships in the course of 10 years.

Therefore, Ted was very instrumental getting Phil into the HOF.

Now, tell me....who are we to question Ted Williams' opinion of a player (Rizzuto) that he closely observed for 12 years of his career ? ?


TED Z
.

Everyone including Ted Williams himself is subject to bias. Look at all the players Frank Frisch promoted, he saw them too. But most would argue he was guilty of cronyism.

[frankbmd]

If Ted Williams' opinions of the "Scooter" are frozen, I doubt that he will be changing his mind anytime soon regardless of what the forum thinks.

[Joshchisox08]

I think I'm more of a HOF than Dom DiMaggio. Jeezeeeeeeee. Now that truly can't be a serious acquisition.

Agreed on Scooter not being a HOF either.

As well as whomever said the disappointment of Diamond Star fans on how many shouldn't be in.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

If Ted Williams' opinions of the "Scooter" are frozen, I doubt that he will be changing his mind anytime soon regardless of what the forum thinks.

baaaaaaahahahaha!

[howard38]

.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by tedzan

He scored 805 Runs during this 10-year period. That's a pretty good number for a "non-power" Lead-off hitter.
[/B]
.

It really isn't. 80 runs a year skewed by 30% of them being crammed into two outstanding years. He had 5 full seasons under 70 runs during his career.

[tjb1952tjb]

Originally Posted by moeson

It was actually a May 13, 1955 game:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/bo...95505130.shtml

Attendance that day at Yankee Stadium: 7,177. Boy...times have changed!

[tjb1952tjb]

Scooter...............

[dabigyankeeman]

Because he was the greatest announcer in history!! Who else would say things like:

"Well, its Tuesday so that means that Scooter and Anne down in Florida are bar-b-queing some good on the grill right about now. And hey, i had a great cannoli at Luigi's last nite after the game, really great. Wasn't that traffic on the George Washington Bridge terrible today? Hey, its the 7th inning, I gotta leave to beat the traffic home!!".

[tedzan]

Ok guys......say what you may regarding Rizzuto. Here's an anecdotal story that I would like to share with you.

April 1984, I was at Newark Airport going to Chicago on business. Standing in front of me at the ticket counter was Phil flying out to Comiskey Park.

I tapped him on the shoulder, and we started talking about our old neighborhood. We proceeded to the gate for our flight. Our flight was delayed
for a couple of hours and Phil kept bringing over coffee as we reminisced about our neighborhood, our families, and our neighbors. Phil and Cora
still lived in their modest English Tudor home in Hillside, NJ. At that time, I lived in Toms River (NJ).

We boarded the 737. I was back in coach and Phil was in 1st class. Then, I saw Phil approaching me. He invited me to sit in 1st class with him. It
was fine with the Stewardess.

For 2 hours, Phil and I were "talkin baseball". Or, I should say Phil did most of the talking and I did most of the listening. Phil enthusiastically told
me about many of the big name ballplayers he played with. I asked him about several of my favorites back the late 1940's and 1950's and he had
an interesting story for each of them.

The 2-hour flight wasn't enough, I could of listened to Phil for many hours and hours. The man was an awesome person to know. I fully agree with
Ted Williams....Phil was a very important factor in the Yankees Championship years (1941..1942..1947..1949 - 1953).

"That's all folks !"


TED Z
.

[vintagewhitesox]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

If someone mentioned this already sorry to repeat, but he should be in for the middle section of Paradise by the Dashboard Light alone.

And Seinfeld

[EvilKing00]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Couldnt resist some piling on and flogging a dead horse at the same time.

Because he plaied a great part in the song "paradise by the dashboard light"?

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by EvilKing00

Because he plaied a great part in the song "paradise by the dashboard light"?

that should qualify him for the rock and roll hof!

[mets41]

The year before Rizzuto got in via the vets commite, Charlie Gehringer, a long time member who always spoke against Phil, died. Charlie and another member had to be replaced. The 2 replacements were Pee Wee Reese and Yogi Berra. They and Bill White were long time Rizzuto friends on the 18 member vets committe. When I heard this, I said to my friend Ted z that Phil was a lock to get in the next year and I was right.

[SteveMitchell]

I like the Two Teds' response better than mine but I'll share it anyway:

Some believe the National Baseball Hall of Fame ought to include more than the first 25 or so players. If nearly 20,000 played big league baseball (and a few thousand others were barred but were of MLB quality), then a reasonable HOF membership might be 3-5 percent, perhaps less. If 2% is right, then there ought to be 350-400 players enshrined. (I didn't count them but, exclusive of officials, umps, etc., there are a whole lot less than 350 players as members.) Therefore, Phil Rizzuto belongs - he just got there a little before he "should" have, according to some folks. Like I said, I like Ted Z's and Ted W's answer better. (See below if you missed it.)

Originally Posted by tedzan

Some of the comments here are laughable. Most of you never met Phil Rizzuto; or, never saw him play the game

I grew up in Hillside, NJ in the 1940's and 1950's. Phil's house was 2 blocks away from us. He was a great role model for us kids in the neighborhood.

Monday nites at St. Catherine's school, Phil would get together with us and "Talk Baseball" for a couple of hours. He would give us pointers on how to
be an effective Lead-off batter and how to field our positions....answered a lot of our questions on the ballplayers of that era....and, had a great sense
of humor.

Yes, I saw Phil play from 1947 - 1956. He was great Lead-off guy, who exceeded the "Lead-off constant" associated with Lead-off batters. And, that is
if the lead-off batter in any given inning gets on base, he will score 75 % of the time (barring a double-play). This factor has been a constant in BB.....
since the beginning of the 20th Century.

Hopefully some of you may appreciate me sharing this with you. Whatever, but I don't expect you to be convinced otherwise by this Ted's words.

Here are the words of another Ted (Williams)....who personally told me (in Cooperstown in the 1980's)...... "if Phil Rizzuto played for us (Red SOX) all
those years, we would have been the Champions, instead of the Yankees".

Now, how can you argue with that statement ?


TED Z
.

[Huck]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hey Peter

You (and some others here) are wasting your time trying to play the "numbers game" regarding why Rizzuto should not be in the HOF.

As I have said twice already in this thread, Ted Williams thought very highly of Phil's team play. Furthermore, Ted considered Phil to be
a very key factor in the Yankees winning 8 - AL Championships in the course of 10 years.

Therefore, Ted was very instrumental getting Phil into the HOF.

Now, tell me....who are we to question Ted Williams' opinion of a player (Rizzuto) that he closely observed for 12 years of his career ? ?


TED Z
.

Interesting that Williams would be so high on Rizzuto and not on his own ss Pesky. Pesky's numbers are comparable to Phil's and he played fewer years.

[egri]

Originally Posted by biohazard

Interesting that Williams would be so high on Rizzuto and not on his own ss Pesky. Pesky's numbers are comparable to Phil's and he played fewer years.

Their defense might have had something to do with it; the Yankee infield had a reputation for being airtight, while in Summer of '49, Halberstam seems bearish on Pesky's defense.

[Huck]

Originally Posted by egri

Their defense might have had something to do with it; the Yankee infield had a reputation for being airtight, while in Summer of '49, Halberstam seems bearish on Pesky's defense.

Per baseball reference I did not see much difference in the their defensive stats.