Question regarding top cards on cellos -1979

[japhi]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I'm not taking up for Jose because I do not know him, have never conducted business with him and have no dog in this fight. However, I read a lot of accusations over here and on the CU boards.

Why can't someone post some solid proof of those accusations? I've recently called out scammers on the main page and I provide proof that links those I've accused directly to the scam (or whatever I've accused them of - e.g. shilling).

However, I have not seen any proof against Jose. If someone can link him to something, then you can change my mind, but it has to be proof positive, no he said / she said stuff.

Please don't PM me with your proof. If someone has proof, let them post it here for all to see.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...=162027&page=6

So we know he builds cello's with stars on top and admits those cello's got past PSA. Furthermore he has a history of selling cellos (Google starpaxman) with stars on top.

But I'm to believe that all the cello's he got past PSA are still in his possession and that all the cell's he's sold are good. Ya sure, that passes the sniff test.

You draw your own conclusions

[1all]

Originally Posted by Leon

So you aren't the ebay user in that auction, elsipep? David Gold is kind of out of control if you ask me....maybe one card shy of a deck.

The way I read it Leon is that Jose *is* the seller but the pack wasn't actually sold because the person who hit "Buy it now" was playing games and never paid.

[lahmejoon]

Where is popcorn girl when we need her over here!

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by japhi

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...=162027&page=6

So we know he builds cello's with stars on top and admits those cello's got past PSA. Furthermore he has a history of selling cellos (Google starpaxman) with stars on top.

But I'm to believe that all the cello's he got past PSA are still in his possession and that all the cell's he's sold are good. Ya sure, that passes the sniff test.

You draw your own conclusions

Matt,

Let me start by saying welcome to the boards. I did read that thread at the time and I understand Jose made some fake cello packs, but nowhere have I read that he sold any of them. If he did, I would definitely like to see proof and it would certainly change my mind.

Here is what I think about this whole situation. I believe that Jose did fabricate some packs and they were submitted to PSA for authentication and grading. Steve Hart authenticated the packs and now he looks like a fool, but people are trying to turn it around on Jose because they don't want Steve, whom they put on a pedestal, to look like he is incompetent. Well, the truth of the matter is, if he did authenticate nearly 200 bogus packs, THEN HE IS INCOPETENT! One or two or even a few could be considered a mistake, but over 200? Come on, that is incompetency. If a grader authenticated over 200 counterfeit cards, couldn't we call him incompetent as well? Sure we could. We would be calling for PSA (or whoever the TPG was) to get rid of the guy. Ok, so why does Steve Hart get a free pass? I'm sorry, but I believe people are making Jose out to be the bad guy to take the spotlight of the real problem which is Steve Hart and PSA.

Again, if anybody has any solid proof that Jose sold bogus packs, I would love to hear it and that would definitely change my mind.

David

[pepis]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Matt,

Let me start by saying welcome to the boards. I did read that thread at the time and I understand Jose made some fake cello packs, but nowhere have I read that he sold any of them. If he did, I would definitely like to see proof and it would certainly change my mind.

Here is what I think about this whole situation. I believe that Jose did fabricate some packs and they were submitted to PSA for authentication and grading. Steve Hart authenticated the packs and now he looks like a fool, but people are trying to turn it around on Jose because they don't want Steve, whom they put on a pedestal, to look like he is incompetent. Well, the truth of the matter is, if he did authenticate nearly 200 bogus packs, THEN HE IS INCOPETENT! One or two or even a few could be considered a mistake, but over 200? Come on, that is incompetency. If a grader authenticated over 200 counterfeit cards, couldn't we call him incompetent as well? Sure we could. We would be calling for PSA (or whoever the TPG was) to get rid of the guy. Ok, so why does Steve Hart get a free pass? I'm sorry, but I believe people are making Jose out to be the bad guy to take the spotlight of the real problem which is Steve Hart and PSA.

Again, if anybody has any solid proof that Jose sold bogus packs, I would love to hear it and that would definitely change my mind.

David

Absolutely David.
what we got here is a BLATAN attempt of a cover-up by PSA the pack
corruption is so BIG there is nearly !000 star packs alone in the population
report, that can be identify as BOGUS simply by the mention of the player
on top, most counterfeiters on EBAY keep getting away with it because as you
said there authenticator is incompetent does not have the proper knowledge,
last year i offered to sit down with him an discuss it, and nothing in fact he
is now SELLING BOGUS PACKS IN HIS WEBSITE so needless to say it got worst!

[japhi]

I don't put Steve on a pedestal, don't even collect unopened. I don't for one second believe that Pepis started making fake packs for the greater good of the hobby.

I'm also not naive enough to think that PSA or any other TPG will catch every fake.

Here is what I do know for sure:

Pepis makes fake cello packs with stars on top
Pepis submits packs to PSA and they get slabbed
PSA is not great identifying fake cello's
Pepis sells cello's with stars on top

That's enough info for me to form an opinion, YMMV

[Ksquared]

Jose
I sent you a PM earlier today about trying to learn more about 75-77 cello packs. The whole situation about fake cello packs out there is of interest to me because I have some cello packs bought over the years. Like most, I try to buy from reputable people/dealers. I'm far from an expert and do put some trust in people I think are honest and have strong reputations. Probably a mistake and this whole situation has caused me to be more skeptical in general with our hobby (not a bad thing - live and learn).

What I learned from your PM is that in 1975 only players with a double asterisk on the back of the card (**) can appear on the front of a cello pack. The same would hold true for cello packs in 1976 and 1977. I looked at all the 1975 packs that Fritsch has for sale and they all have top cards with the **, so that backs up what you said.

I have also read from you where you said you haven't sold any of the back packs you had authenticated by PSA.

I then did some research on packs sold by using VCP previous sales over the years. You have sold several packs over the past few years with stars on top. Some of them are ** but many of them are not. If what you said hold true all of the time (as you said it did), then can you explain these sales attributed to your ebay id. (edited). All of these packs have a single asterisk (*):

cert#19449158 (Willie Mays #203 on top) sold for $120.27 on 1/3/12
cert#18517511 (Thurman Munson #20 on top) sold for $229.72 on 12/13/11
cert#19414015 (Dave Winfield #61 on top) sold for $185.50 on 1/4/12
cert#18517503 (Robin Yount #223 on top) sold for $500 on 11/17/11
cert#18777946 (Mickey Mantle MVP #194 on top) sold for $147.50 on 8/17/11

There were a bunch of other sales for 1975 and 1977 packs that I didn't check so this is just a sample of those that I found that didn't meet the criteria you said.

In your PM you mentioned that you typically want to address these questions in public so that I why I posted here instead of back through PM.

Just to be transparent, I have a 1975 pack with Brooks Robinson on the top and that card has a single asterisk. The cert# is sandwiched between packs that you sold but I did not buy it from you directly.

Thanks
Jim

[pepis]

Originally Posted by Ksquared

Jose
I sent you a PM earlier today about trying to learn more about 75-77 cello packs. The whole situation about fake cello packs out there is of interest to me because I have some cello packs bought over the years. Like most, I try to buy from reputable people/dealers. I'm far from an expert and do put some trust in people I think are honest and have strong reputations. Probably a mistake and this whole situation has caused me to be more skeptical in general with our hobby (not a bad thing - live and learn).

What I learned from your PM is that in 1975 only players with a double asterisk on the back of the card (**) can appear on the front of a cello pack. The same would hold true for cello packs in 1976 and 1977. I looked at all the 1975 packs that Fritsch has for sale and they all have top cards with the **, so that backs up what you said.

I have also read from you where you said you haven't sold any of the back packs you had authenticated by PSA.

I then did some research on packs sold by using VCP previous sales over the years. You have sold several packs over the past few years with stars on top. Some of them are ** but many of them are not. If what you said hold true all of the time (as you said it did), then can you explain these sales attributed to your ebay id. (edited). All of these packs have a single asterisk (*):

cert#19449158 (Willie Mays #203 on top) sold for $120.27 on 1/3/12
cert#18517511 (Thurman Munson #20 on top) sold for $229.72 on 12/13/11
cert#19414015 (Dave Winfield #61 on top) sold for $185.50 on 1/4/12
cert#18517503 (Robin Yount #223 on top) sold for $500 on 11/17/11
cert#18777946 (Mickey Mantle MVP #194 on top) sold for $147.50 on 8/17/11

There were a bunch of other sales for 1975 and 1977 packs that I didn't check so this is just a sample of those that I found that didn't meet the criteria you said.

In your PM you mentioned that you typically want to address these questions in public so that I why I posted here instead of back through PM.

Just to be transparent, I have a 1975 pack with Brooks Robinson on the top and that card has a single asterisk. The cert# is sandwiched between packs that you sold but I did not buy it from you directly.

Thanks
Jim

Absolutely Jim,
i was one of the top star pack dealers i bought and sold hundreds upon
hundreds over the last 10 years, when i started to open box after box is when i noticed that many of those stars that i had on top were only in the
bottom section! the more i opened the more it happened! that's when i started my research and came to finding out the truth! so i started to email
people and most treated my heads up like i was crazy, so i created proof
and still have it, and that is what i'm fighting, every single person that has
bought and sold star packs in the country went through bogus packs most
graded and that is my message exactly wide spread corruption! and as i provided you with SOLID truthful information is the only way i see to help
rid of the problem but i been facing strong opposition from the so-called
experts that don't want the truth to come out. AND AGAIN every pack i was involved in with tampering i still have
i put a note inside of some so there can be no dispute that what say about the corruption in grading is true.

[japhi]

This provides a good opportunity to update my list of things I know for sure:

Pepis makes fake cello packs with stars on top
Pepis submits packs to PSA and they get slabbed
PSA is not great identifying fake cello's
Pepis sells cello's with stars on top
Pepis "was one of the top star pack dealers...bought and sold hundreds"(NEW)

[japhi]

Originally Posted by Ksquared

Jose
I sent you a PM earlier today about trying to learn more about 75-77 cello packs. The whole situation about fake cello packs out there is of interest to me because I have some cello packs bought over the years. Like most, I try to buy from reputable people/dealers. I'm far from an expert and do put some trust in people I think are honest and have strong reputations. Probably a mistake and this whole situation has caused me to be more skeptical in general with our hobby (not a bad thing - live and learn).

What I learned from your PM is that in 1975 only players with a double asterisk on the back of the card (**) can appear on the front of a cello pack. The same would hold true for cello packs in 1976 and 1977. I looked at all the 1975 packs that Fritsch has for sale and they all have top cards with the **, so that backs up what you said.

I have also read from you where you said you haven't sold any of the back packs you had authenticated by PSA.

I then did some research on packs sold by using VCP previous sales over the years. You have sold several packs over the past few years with stars on top. Some of them are ** but many of them are not. If what you said hold true all of the time (as you said it did), then can you explain these sales attributed to your ebay id. (edited). All of these packs have a single asterisk (*):

cert#19449158 (Willie Mays #203 on top) sold for $120.27 on 1/3/12
cert#18517511 (Thurman Munson #20 on top) sold for $229.72 on 12/13/11
cert#19414015 (Dave Winfield #61 on top) sold for $185.50 on 1/4/12
cert#18517503 (Robin Yount #223 on top) sold for $500 on 11/17/11
cert#18777946 (Mickey Mantle MVP #194 on top) sold for $147.50 on 8/17/11

There were a bunch of other sales for 1975 and 1977 packs that I didn't check so this is just a sample of those that I found that didn't meet the criteria you said.

In your PM you mentioned that you typically want to address these questions in public so that I why I posted here instead of back through PM.

Just to be transparent, I have a 1975 pack with Brooks Robinson on the top and that card has a single asterisk. The cert# is sandwiched between packs that you sold but I did not buy it from you directly.

Thanks
Jim

Good info Jim.

Looking forward to a response from pepis, I'm sure he can clear this up.

[Ksquared]

Jose
I've been thinking about your response to my earlier post. I had a few more questions if you don't mind.

I went through VCP and looked at 75-79 recorded sales in grades PSA 7 - 10. I counted 62 sales from your ebay id since VCP has been recording sales. Only 26 of them meet your criteria for what card should be on top. That means that 36 of them would be tampered using your logic. I know you said you bought a lot of packs over the years, especially star packs but that seems like either bad luck or something else.

I also didn't see any common pack sales that I remember and you mentioned that you had opened multiple boxes so i would figure you would have had some common player sales. Maybe you didn't grade them?

I also saw that you were selling packs with the wrong card on front for multiple years with the last sale being a 79 Ozzie Smith pack in May 2012 and a 78 Thurman Munson in June 2012. There have been multiple threads on fake packs on Net54 from March and May of this year where you mentioned that you spoke to Steve last year and had been working on your FBI information "for a long time".

I'm having a hard time believing when you sold those packs as late as 6/12 that you didn't know they were bad. Did you know at the time you sold those packs that they were bad?

Also, you mentioned you still had all the packs you tampered with yourself. And said you were willing to share information if people asked. Can you provide the cert# for those packs you faked and still have?

Thanks, Jose. I appreciate it.

Jim

[ALR-bishop]

Jose-- looks like you have cultivated a whole new group of friends.

[pepis]

Originally Posted by Ksquared

Jose
I've been thinking about your response to my earlier post. I had a few more questions if you don't mind.

I went through VCP and looked at 75-79 recorded sales in grades PSA 7 - 10. I counted 62 sales from your ebay id since VCP has been recording sales. Only 26 of them meet your criteria for what card should be on top. That means that 36 of them would be tampered using your logic. I know you said you bought a lot of packs over the years, especially star packs but that seems like either bad luck or something else.

I also didn't see any common pack sales that I remember and you mentioned that you had opened multiple boxes so i would figure you would have had some common player sales. Maybe you didn't grade them?

I also saw that you were selling packs with the wrong card on front for multiple years with the last sale being a 79 Ozzie Smith pack in May 2012 and a 78 Thurman Munson in June 2012. There have been multiple threads on fake packs on Net54 from March and May of this year where you mentioned that you spoke to Steve last year and had been working on your FBI information "for a long time".

I'm having a hard time believing when you sold those packs as late as 6/12 that you didn't know they were bad. Did you know at the time you sold those packs that they were bad?

Also, you mentioned you still had all the packs you tampered with yourself. And said you were willing to share information if people asked. Can you provide the cert# for those packs you faked and still have?

Thanks, Jose. I appreciate it.

Jim

You're not asking questions you making statements about digging in my past
prior to my extensive research and findings about this very real problem
i have uncovered in the pack industry and hopefully help stop it or at list
slow it down!,,,when you contacted me on private message i provide you
with the information that opened your eyes, but it seems you're having some
difficulty in believing,, understandable!! so i'll post proof of some of the things
i talked about, but just some since i'm still hoping for my day in court!

when it became clear to me of how large the problem is
i posted some on the CU and got banned right away (see pic)


THEN I TRIED TO EXPOSE IT ON EBAY BY MAKING
SOME DARING LISTINGS, BUT PSA HAD THEIR LAWYERS
CONTACT EBAY TO STOP IT (see pic)


THEN S.HART EMAILED ME, WE EXCHANGED A FEW EMAILS
AND IN THIS ONE I MADE IT CLEAR (see pic)



IN PACKS THAT I HAD MADE, I WROTE A NOTE INSIDE
IN ONE OF THE CARDS, DID IT A FEW TIMES IN DIFFERENT TEARS





HERE WE HAVE A COUPLE OF ONE OK A KIND
OH THE SACRIFICE!!





THIS IS A VERY VERY REAL PROBLEM
THAT NEEDS TO BE TOLD FOR THE SAKE OF THE HOBBY!
MORE TOMORROW

[Ksquared]

Sorry if you feel like i'm digging into your 'past'. i'm just looking at some of the completed sales. Your screen shot of the 79 Munson pack is an example of what i'm getting at.

that cert# is 19361330. Checking the PSA cert validation tool and going backward a few numbers you can see what other packs were graded at the same time. Cert#19361327 is a 78 PSA 9 pack with Molitor/Trammell on top. Using your logic on what card should be on top, that card can be on top.

Whether it came from the factory that way and is untampered, I have no idea but at least according to your logic it can be on top. But they were graded at the same time. You sold that pack on 4/10/12 for $349.

So, you were creating those tampered packs (Munson pack) with no intention of selling them to see if they can get past PSA (your words). But, two months later (5/12 and 6/12) you were selling packs according to your own logic you knew were bad.

That was the point of my question above. Take away all the points about you helping the hobby and just answer....did you sell packs that you knew were tampered with? The timeline above suggests you did.

You may have points about what Steve/PSA did. The 'other side' may have points about your contribution to the problem. I'll probably never know enough to know 100% but it seems like you sold bad packs and knew it. For now, that's all i'm trying to figure out.

Regards
Jim

[jhs5120]

I'm sorry Jose, but you say you are an expert and you have been an expert for years (43 years I might add), but sales that took place 2-3 years ago don't count because you weren't aware of what was going on? Come on.

[Leon]

I haven't read this whole thread intricately so if it's been discussed my apology, but I received this question from a board member, for Jose.

Someone with the screen name: Josemv333 bought a 1972 Topps football Terry Bradshaw with a distinct stain on it off of eBay from seller NESC.
Pack got by Steve at PSA and pack was stabbed.
Pack was then sold by seller: Elsipep on 3/28/12 (as listed on VCP) with Bradshaw on top with that exact stain.


I thought you stated you NEVER sold a resealed pack? The buyer of the card was you, Josemv333, correct? The seller, Elsipep, is you also, correct?




.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by pepis

You're not asking questions you making statements about digging in my past
prior to my extensive research and findings about this very real problem
i have uncovered in the pack industry and hopefully help stop it or at list
slow it down!,,,when you contacted me on private message i provide you
with the information that opened your eyes, but it seems you're having some
difficulty in believing,, understandable!! so i'll post proof of some of the things
i talked about, but just some since i'm still hoping for my day in court!

when it became clear to me of how large the problem is
i posted some on the CU and got banned right away (see pic)


THEN I TRIED TO EXPOSE IT ON EBAY BY MAKING
SOME DARING LISTINGS, BUT PSA HAD THEIR LAWYERS
CONTACT EBAY TO STOP IT (see pic)


THEN S.HART EMAILED ME, WE EXCHANGED A FEW EMAILS
AND IN THIS ONE I MADE IT CLEAR (see pic)



IN PACKS THAT I HAD MADE, I WROTE A NOTE INSIDE
IN ONE OF THE CARDS, DID IT A FEW TIMES IN DIFFERENT TEARS





HERE WE HAVE A COUPLE OF ONE OK A KIND
OH THE SACRIFICE!!





THIS IS A VERY VERY REAL PROBLEM
THAT NEEDS TO BE TOLD FOR THE SAKE OF THE HOBBY!
MORE TOMORROW

What was edited out of this today and why? I think I may be smelling a rat....

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Leon

I haven't read this whole thread intricately so if it's been discussed my apology, but I received this question from a board member, for Jose.

Someone with the screen name: Josemv333 bought a 1972 Topps football Terry Bradshaw with a distinct stain on it off of eBay from seller NESC.
Pack got by Steve at PSA and pack was stabbed.
Pack was then sold by seller: Elsipep on 3/28/12 (as listed on VCP) with Bradshaw on top with that exact stain.


I thought you stated you NEVER sold a resealed pack? The buyer of the card was you, Josemv333, correct? The seller, Elsipep, is you also, correct?




.

Can this board member provide some clear scans of the Bradshaw as it was purchased raw (with stains) and also as it is resides in the authenticated cello pack? This would provide the proof we need to put this matter to rest once and for all.

[pepis]

Originally Posted by Leon

What was edited out of this today and why? I think I may be smelling a rat....

No rat, it was the copy of one of the FBI emails, after thinking about it
i felt i might've been inappropriate to leave it with-out getting there permission.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Can this board member provide some clear scans of the Bradshaw as it was purchased raw (with stains) and also as it is resides in the authenticated cello pack? This would provide the proof we need to put this matter to rest once and for all.

I don't know the answer but I am sure I will find out one way or the other. I want to see the scan of the email with the FBI agent getting an email from Jose. That is what I think was edited out.

[Bestdj777]

Deleted. Don't want to get involved.

[jhs5120]

Okay, since Jose is not answering and we still have "doubters" I am going to put this whole thing to rest.

Here is the 1972 Topps Terry Bradshaw card in question sold through NESC. Notice the two very distinct stains on the bottom two corners.






Later a pack with a similar 1972 Bradshaw card showing was sold under the user name "elsipep" (Jose) on 3/28/12 (according to VCP). The man who purchased the pack later suspected it was resealed and subsequently sold the pack with a disclaimer (please read the item discription).



Here is a close-up of that pack. Notice the same distinct stains on the bottom left and right corners, the same off centering and the same tilt? I will let everyone reach there own conclusions on this one.




Jose, I know you said that you never sold a pack that you resealed, so I am naturally having a difficult time understanding this whole thing. Could you please explain to us what is going on here? I'm sure there is a very logical explanation. I don't want anyone to jump to any conclusions before you get your say.

[jhs5120]

Hopefully we see a reply soon...

Also, I just noticed that the pack was recently sold in the most recent Memory Lane Auction: Link

[bnorth]

All I will say is there is no way those are the same 2 cards. Yes they have a similar stain and centering but not the same card.
Edited to add I was wrong. To me the bottom left of the cards looked to have a different yellow offset compared to the black border line.

[pepis]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

Okay, since Jose is not answering and we still have "doubters" I am going to put this whole thing to rest.

Here is the 1972 Topps Terry Bradshaw card in question sold through NESC. Notice the two very distinct stains on the bottom two corners.






Later a pack with a similar 1972 Bradshaw card showing was sold under the user name "elsipep" (Jose) on 3/28/12 (according to VCP). The man who purchased the pack later suspected it was resealed and subsequently sold the pack with a disclaimer (please read the item discription).



Here is a close-up of that pack. Notice the same distinct stains on the bottom left and right corners, the same off centering and the same tilt? I will let everyone reach there own conclusions on this one.




Jose, I know you said that you never sold a pack that you resealed, so I am naturally having a difficult time understanding this whole thing. Could you please explain to us what is going on here? I'm sure there is a very logical explanation. I don't want anyone to jump to any conclusions before you get your say.

Yes That pack is on the list of packs a had made not only the stains,
in the back there is clear signs of being resealed on the white paint,
and it got by the expert, who ever owns it now should file for the PSA
guarantee! and i'll be glad to testify that I had it made.

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by pepis

Yes That pack is on the list of packs a had made not only the stains,
in the back there is clear signs of being resealed on the white paint,
and it got by the expert, who ever owns it now should file for the PSA
guarantee! and i'll be glad to testify that I had it made.

Thank you, that is exactly what we all thought. I quoted you to prevent it from being changed.

Jason

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by bnorth

All I will say is there is no way those are the same 2 cards. Yes they have a similar stain and centering but not the same card.

It is the same card. I should have put in the disclaimer that the second scan (of the pack), was from a PWCC auction and the color/clarity may have been "enhanced".

[pepis]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

Thank you, that is exactly what we all thought. I quoted you to prevent it from being changed.

Jason

No need to change it Jason when i started this venture my goal was to bring
this problem to the front! i have an incredible amount of data on the subject
from before i even submitted a pack for grading to PSA most members on the
the CU have purchased bad packs from each other, some of the sold them
when i alerted them via email, and some like you sold a bad pack without
knowing, one particular member has sold a very large amount and i have a
screen-shot of many of them! all i been trying to do is show how deep this corruption is when i started this i had no idea how BAD it really is i myself
have learned a lot the past 2 and half years, documented everything from
the beginning! and started with this note i wrote before i ever submitted
one single pack it all started when i noticed many questionable seals then
i learned the pattern problems.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Jose,

I'm not understanding. You said that you never sold any pack that you fabricated. However, this clearly shows you did sell a fabricated pack.

Why did you sell this fabricated pack?

[ALR-bishop]

"Dishonesty does not bother me, I just wonder why anyone believed me in the first place"....Jack Handey

[al032184]

Jose, since you have finally admitted that you sold your fabricated packs, will you refund me the money I paid for the (at least) two packs I have that I know were yours?