New challenge....try collecting the various T-brand sub-sets of the T206 Super-Prints

[tedzan]

Here are the 26 different brands (1909-1919) that this card of Hal Chase has been confirmed with.






AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 (frame)
BROAD LEAF 350
CAROLINA BRIGHTS
"COUPON" (T213-1) .... 1910
COUPON (T213-2) ...... 1914
COUPON (T213-3) ...... 1919
CYCLE 350
CYCLE 460
EL PRINCIPE de GALES
red HINDU
LENOX
OLD MILL
PIEDMONT 350 factory 25
PIEDMONT 460 factory 25
PIEDMONT 460 factory 42
POLAR BEAR
SOVEREIGN 350
SOVEREIGN 460
SWEET CAPORAL 350, factory 25
SWEET CAPORAL 350, factory 30
SWEET CAPORAL 460, factory 25
SWEET CAPORAL 460, factory 30
SWEET CAPORAL 460, factory 42 (overprinted) .... scroll over Factory 30
SWEET CAPORAL 460, factory 42
TOLSTOI
VICTORY (T214) ...... 1914-15




T-Rex TED

[ethicsprof]

great thread with super pics everyone.
TRex, it's the first time i've seen the Red Cobb coupon and it's absolutely breathtaking.
Congrats, ole friend.

all the best,
barry

[tedzan]

Here are the 30 brands (1909-1919) that this card of Johnny Evers has been confirmed with.






AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 (frame)
BROAD LEAF 350
BROAD LEAF 460
CAROLINA BRIGHTS
"COUPON" (T213-1) .... 1910
COUPON (T213-2) ...... 1914
COUPON (T213-3) ...... 1919
CYCLE 350
CYCLE 460
DRUM 350
EL PRINCIPE de GALES
red HINDU
OLD MILL
PIEDMONT 350 factory 25
PIEDMONT 460 factory 25
PIEDMONT 460 factory 42
"PIRATE" (T215) ...... 1912
POLAR BEAR
RED CROSS (T215-1) ...... 1910-12
RED CROSS (T215-2) ...... 1912-13
SOVEREIGN 350
SOVEREIGN 460
SWEET CAPORAL 350, factory 25
SWEET CAPORAL 350, factory 30
SWEET CAPORAL 460, factory 25
SWEET CAPORAL 460, factory 30
SWEET CAPORAL 460, factory 42 (overprinted) .... scroll over Factory 30
SWEET CAPORAL 460, factory 42
TOLSTOI
VICTORY (T214) ...... 1914-15


T-Rex TED

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Big Six

I just noticed that one of the Coupon Chase cards has him listed on the front as N.Y. National...he was a Giant in 1919...how could that Coupon be considered a t206??? Feel free to expose me for the fool I am...and thanks.

That is a T213-3 Coupon.

The ongoing debate of T213-1 vs T206 is a different discussion. I think Ted was mainly showing the same pose in different series.

[tedzan]

Hey guys,

In my last 4 posts here, I'm simply illustrating that American Lithographic continued to print these six super-prints in other Tobacco sets that they
produced during the T206 era, and post T206 era (1912-1919). I will soon post the info on the "dark cap dudes"....Matty and Chase.

Furthermore, many more subjects that 1st appeared in the T206 set, were continued in the subsequent American Tobacco Co. sets (T213, T214,
& T215). For example: Baker, Bender, Chase (trophy), Cobb (bat off shoulder), Crawford (bat), Griffith (bat), Jennings (both), Johnson (pitching),
Lajoie (bat), McGraw, Reulbach, Tinker, Wheat, Willis, CYoung (glove), etc., etc.

POP reports and surveys suggest that these six super-prints must have been double-printed with some of the brands. And, this is quite plausible
since COBB, MATTY, and CHASE were very popular ballplayers. So were TINKER--EVERS--CHANCE in that era.


So, here is today's TRIVIA quiz......why didn't American Litho. select TINKER as the sixth subject (instead of a 2nd Chase pose) ?


Your thoughts regarding this question will be appreciated ? ?


T-Rex TED

[steve B]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hey guys,

In my last 4 posts here, I'm simply illustrating that American Lithographic continued to print these six super-prints in other Tobacco sets that they
produced during the T206 era, and post T206 era (1912-1919). I will soon post the info on the "dark cap dudes"....Matty and Chase.

Furthermore, many more subjects that 1st appeared in the T206 set, were continued in the subsequent American Tobacco Co. sets (T213, T214,
& T215). For example: Baker, Bender, Chase (trophy), Cobb (bat off shoulder), Crawford (bat), Griffith (bat), Jennings (both), Johnson (pitching),
Lajoie (bat), McGraw, Reulbach, Tinker, Wheat, Willis, CYoung (glove), etc., etc.

POP reports and surveys suggest that these six super-prints must have been double-printed with some of the brands. And, this is quite plausible
since COBB, MATTY, and CHASE were very popular ballplayers. So were TINKER--EVERS--CHANCE in that era.


So, here is today's TRIVIA quiz......why didn't American Litho. select TINKER as the sixth subject (instead of a 2nd Chase pose) ?


Your thoughts regarding this question will be appreciated ? ?


T-Rex TED

Maybe a regional thing? The group has 1 detroit player, 3 cards of 2 NY players and 2 Chicago players. I'm thinking the mix is either the 3 largest or most competetive markets, or the 2 biggest and they just couldn't leave Cobb out. Maybe they had a deal with him beyond the regular fee? Lower fee if he was in more product including his own?

So maybe Chase got 2 because they wanted better balance?
Or someone pulled out of a set? Maybe a Philly player? Plank?

Chase had a better year in 1910 than Tinker, and was an improving player in a huge market. 1911 turned out to be an even better year for him.
Tinker had an off year in 1910 and while popular may have been thought of as fading?

So plank pulls out - maybe for a second time, Chase makes a balanced group by market and is popular and improving.

Steve B

[tedzan]

Interesting response....so, essentially what you are saying is that ALC's selection for the 6 super-prints was to balance out League represen-
tation (i.e., 3 guys from the AL, and 3 guys from the NL).
And, I like your choice of pitcher, namely Plank. He is an interesting one to round out the American League with Cobb and Chase (the "darling"
of New York....where ALC was located).

But, Eddie Plank was "yanked" for whatever reasons. Perhaps, a better choice for an AL pitcher would've been Cy Young (1908 Boston 21-11).

The thing to keep in mind is....that many of the guys that were included in the 150 and 350 series of the T206 set were selected during 1908
and early 1909.

In 1907 and 1908, the Cubs and Detroit were their League's Champions. With the Cubs beating Detroit in both of those years' World Series.

Best regards, and thank for your thought-provoking response.

TED Z

[tedzan]

Here are the 24 brands (1909-1919) that this card of Hal Chase has been confirmed with.




AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 (frame)
CAROLINA BRIGHTS
"COUPON" (T213-1) .... 1910
COUPON (T213-2) ...... 1914
COUPON (T213-3) ...... 1919
CYCLE 350
CYCLE 460
EL PRINCIPE de GALES
red HINDU
LENOX
OLD MILL
PIEDMONT 350 factory 25
PIEDMONT 460 factory 25
PIEDMONT 460 factory 42
POLAR BEAR
SOVEREIGN 350
SOVEREIGN 460
SWEET CAPORAL 350, factory 25
SWEET CAPORAL 350, factory 30
SWEET CAPORAL 460, factory 30
SWEET CAPORAL 460, factory 42 (overprinted) .... scroll over Factory 30
SWEET CAPORAL 460, factory 42
TOLSTOI
VICTORY (T214) ...... 1914-15


T-Rex TED

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by ethicsprof

great thread with super pics everyone.
TRex, it's the first time i've seen the Red Cobb coupon and it's absolutely breathtaking.
Congrats, ole friend.

all the best,
barry

Thanks ole buddy.

These super-prints fascinate me. And, as much as I like Chase, I don't understand why American Litho. printed two of him.
They chose Chance and Evers....so, how about Tinker ?
Or, how about CYoung ?

What's your take on this subject ?

Best regards,

TED Z

[tedzan]

Here are the 27 different brands (1909-1919) that this card of Matty has been confirmed with.



















AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 (frame)
BROAD LEAF 460
CAROLINA BRIGHTS
"COUPON" (T213-1) .... 1910
COUPON (T213-2) ...... 1914
COUPON (T213-3) ...... 1919
CYCLE 350
CYCLE 460
EL PRINCIPE de GALES
red HINDU
OLD MILL
PIEDMONT 350 factory 25
PIEDMONT 460 factory 25
PIEDMONT 460 factory 42
"PIRATE" (T215) ...... 1912
POLAR BEAR
RED CROSS (T215-1) ...... 1910-12
RED CROSS (T215-2) ...... 1912-13
SOVEREIGN 350
SOVEREIGN 460
SWEET CAPORAL 350, factory 25
SWEET CAPORAL 350, factory 30
SWEET CAPORAL 460, factory 25
SWEET CAPORAL 460, factory 30
SWEET CAPORAL 460, factory 42 (overprinted) .... scroll over Factory 30
SWEET CAPORAL 460, factory 42
TOLSTOI


T-Rex TED

[Rob D.]

Originally Posted by cfc1909

Ted it appears in post #30 that the Carolina Brights, Old Mill and Piedmont 350 all have the same front also it appears the El Principe De Gales and Tolstoi have the same front.

 

[ethicsprof]

ted,
i'm thinking that you may have answered your question when you
describe Chase as the darling of New York where the ALC was located.
Two cards for the darling makes sense to me.
Tinker was no darling.

best, ole buddy
barry

[steve B]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Interesting response....so, essentially what you are saying is that ALC's selection for the 6 super-prints was to balance out League represen-
tation (i.e., 3 guys from the AL, and 3 guys from the NL).
And, I like your choice of pitcher, namely Plank. He is an interesting one to round out the American League with Cobb and Chase (the "darling"
of New York....where ALC was located).

But, Eddie Plank was "yanked" for whatever reasons. Perhaps, a better choice for an AL pitcher would've been Cy Young (1908 Boston 21-11).

The thing to keep in mind is....that many of the guys that were included in the 150 and 350 series of the T206 set were selected during 1908
and early 1909.

In 1907 and 1908, the Cubs and Detroit were their League's Champions. With the Cubs beating Detroit in both of those years' World Series.

Best regards, and thank for your thought-provoking response.

TED Z

I hadn't considered balancing leagues. That makes some sense.

I was figuring they used those 6 to skew the balance of the overall print runs towards their bigger markets. - NY customers would want to see more NY players etc. if the biggest markets were NY, Chicago, Detroit, ..... Philly is right up there.

If they were picking based on overall career, Young would have made a good choice. I picked Plank because of the odd distribution of his cards. 150 series- withdrawn? But then a few 350's. So maybe the problem that caused the withdrawl was "resolved" but blew up again? or maybe they got permission to use up some old inventory by adding SC 350 backs? So I figured him as a good choice, included in the 6 but again withdrawn when things went bad and replaced with Chase. That is of course just a crazy guess without much to back it up.

Steve B

[tedzan]

Yes, I think Chase must of been a favorite of those guys at American Lithographic. The building still stands in
downtown NYC. It was constructed in 1895. Here's a pix of the entrance. It now houses professional offices.






Also, here is a list of the 5 top teams in the T206 set in terms of player representation........

NY Giants......52

Cubs.............38

Detroit..........30

Highlanders....27

Brooklyn........27


Best regards ole buddy,

T-Rex TED