SOT Holy Crap the Phillies Got Cliff Lee- Best Starting 4 Pitchers Ever??

[David W]

I'll take the Cardinal big 3 for next year over the Phillie 3.

Wainright, Carpenter, and Garcia all are as good as Oswalt, Lee, and Haladay.

The overlooked guy is Hamels, a pretty good 4th starter.

We will see if he is the 4th starter by year end, I wouldn't be surprised if he is better than Lee and Oswalt.

[bh3443]

The phillies will be exciting this coming year!
Personally, I like Tim Lincecum the best and wish he was here in Boston!
Freezing here in Boston! I can't wait for Spring Training!

[ChiefBenderForever]

So because the Yankees wanted Cliff Lee he is the greatest pitcher ever ? Seriously, he has to be the most overated hyped up pitcher ever, he is not even close to an upper level pitcher. The Phillies got an ok pitcher, the Red Sox got a couple hitters, this makes them a lock for the world series ? I still say Red Sox will not make the playoffs even though I really like them and the Phillies will not make it to the big show either.

[boneheadandrube]

"I'll take the Cardinal big 3 for next year over the Phillie 3.

Wainright, Carpenter, and Garcia all are as good as Oswalt, Lee, and Oswalt."


Are you just a casual baseball fan or something? Offering opinions like this on a public forum basically renders any future opinion you have invalid...
GB

[timzcardz]

Originally Posted by Anthony S.

I think Halladay's last nine seasons have been a fluke. He's not that good.

DAMN YOU!!!!

I just spit my lunch all over the monitor!

[mr2686]

I think when all is said and done, the Yankees will be happy they didn't spend that money on Lee. He's a nice pitcher that's done pretty well in the post season, but he's not worth that type of money. I think they could get similar performance by spending less money and convincing Pettitte to pitch another year...then spend a little money on some solid innings eaters and bench help.
Not sure how Crawford will do for the Sox...don't think he's worth that type of money either, but Gonzalez is the real deal and will have a monster season in Boston.

[David W]

Originally Posted by boneheadandrube

"I'll take the Cardinal big 3 for next year over the Phillie 3.

Wainright, Carpenter, and Garcia all are as good as Oswalt, Lee, and Oswalt."


Are you just a casual baseball fan or something? Offering opinions like this on a public forum basically renders any future opinion you have invalid...
GB

LOL. You haven't seen what Wainright and Carpenter have done the last 2 years have you?

We'll see how those 2 and Garcia do this year.

[boneheadandrube]

Originally Posted by David W

LOL. You haven't seen what Wainright and Carpenter have done the last 2 years have you?

We'll see how those 2 and Garcia do this year.

Yes, I have seen what they have done...enjoy the regular season for 2011.

[Robextend]

I compared the Phillies top 3 to the Giants and Cards top 3 stat-wise for the 2010 season. I know Lee was in Seattle for a bit and Oswalt in Houston, but the numbers are pretty close with an edge to the Phils. And of course you would take Hamels over Bumgarner or anyone the Cards have as your #4, but Bummy looks like he has a nice career ahead of him.

Phillies Big 3: ERA 2.78 WHIP 1.03 BB 103 K 597
Giants Big 3: ERA 3.22 WHIP 1.19 BB 233 K 613
Cards Big 3: ERA 2.79 WHIP 1.17 BB 183 K 524

Of course there are many other factors besides raw stats to take into account, but to me the Phillies have a clear edge although the Giants and Cards are right up there too.

[cdn_collector]

Originally Posted by David R

Richard,
Halladay is great, no doubt. But I think Cain is one of the most underrated starters in baseball. The Giants have not given him much run support and the bullpen has let him down consistently his whole career. He is six or seven years younger than Halladay, has a similar career ERA, and gives up fewer hits and strikes out more batters per nine innings than Halladay. For next season I would take him as a starter on my staff over Halladay. Time will tell whether that would be a good decision.
Best,
David R

Fair enough, David, I can't argue too much with that. When you talk about lack of run support, Halladay suffered that in spades with Toronto. Curiousity will force me to compare their early statistics to see how they stack up. That's probably a more fair way of looking at this.

Lastly, since I made my disappointment known about the one Lincecum start I got to see, I should also acknowledge that on that same trip that I saw Lincecum, I watched Cliff Lee pitch at Oakland, and then watched the Jays play in Anaheim. Including the Skydome [I will not call it the Rogers' Centre!], I have been to four stadiums and AT&T is my hands down favourite! Great building, great baseball environment, great fans.


Regards,

Richard.

[tbob]

Hard to believe Cliff Lee was the #3 pitcher on his collegiate team. Of course numbers 1 and 2 never made it beyond AA. I used to love to watch Lee pitch in college, I always thought he was underrated.
I think Cashman forgot to factor in Lee is an Arkansas kid and having his wife spat on and having obscenities hurled on her by drunk, obnoxious big city New York fans is something that certainly didn't help his case. Right on the heels of this, Cashman comes out and says Greinke does not have the right makeup to pitch in New York City, alluding to the fact Zach has had bouts with anxiety disorders in the past, so the Yanks aren't interested. Wow, winning friends and influencing people

[SteveMitchell]

James Gallo wrote:

The Phillies got Cliff Lee which is just totally mind blowing to me. Plus he signed for less money and less years which is also insane in this market.

Has there ever been a starting rotation better then the phillies have now??
Halladay
Oswalt
Lee
Hamels
Blanton (ok a weak spot but he eats a lot of innings)

So what do you think?

James G
__________________

My comment: A quick check of www.baseball-reference.com turned up the '05 Giants as a pretty good club:

Christy Mathewson (age 24) 31 - 9 .775 on 1.28
Joe McGinnity (34) 21 - 15 .583, 2.87
Red Ames (22) 22 - 8 .733, 2.74
Dummy Taylor (30) 16 - 9 .640, 2.66
Hooks Wiltse (25) 15 - 6 .714, 2.47

I would also add, too, that the '54 Indians' starters were a finer group - at least until they ran up against the Giants in the World Series.

With the addition of the American League's best pitcher (Cliff Lee), the Phils do seem to have the look of an outstanding pitching corps.

[CMIZ5290]

This is exactly why the system sucks as it exists. Where do you draw the line expense wise?? First of all, if the phillies don't win it all, this is a bust. Secondly, they are behind the red sox as a favorite to win it all. Finally, the atlanta braves pitching staff in the early-mid 90's was better.