Red Hindu Challenge!

[dstudeba]

Originally Posted by Chicago206

There are only a couple lots with red hindus in the current 2 major auctions (1 lot features 8 cards). I dont think you are giving enough credit to how rare this variation actually is. To say it can be had in PSA 1 with any frequency at $500, and then to tell me you know this because you have collected baseball cards for 25+ years only shows me one thing. That you have not been tracking the recent sales and very scarce availability of this particular card. I'd like to see a couple of real world auction/sales data thats recent that support your claim.

A problem I see is that everyone is using non precise language in this topic. To someone who has been around the hobby for a long time Red Hindus do not seem rare. Hell you said there are currently a couple of lots available. If your definition of rare is "I can't buy one in the specified grade after looking for a week" that will be different than mine which is more on the order of "I really hope one comes up for sale this year since none came up for sale in the last two years."

This isn't just for the OP, but back to the never ending discussion of what is rare. An N167 is rare, a Red Hindu is not.

I also think wonka had some good points.

[Chicago206]

"Rare" is a relative term by its very nature. Compared to a Piedmont or Sweet Cap, the red Hindu is exceedingly rare. Compared to an Uzit, or a Drum, the red Hindu is simply an "also ran". Since we have no definitive parameters for the term "rare" as applied to card collecting, its going to always be a confusing description. One person's rare is another's scarce, is another's common. To me, any red Hindu is a rare entity when compared to all of the T206 cards still in existence. If there are still 1,000,000 total T206 cards surviving in all grades/backs/and players, certainly the red Hindu version makes up far less than 1% of the total population, and quite possibly even far less than 1/2 of 1% (fewer than 5,000 total cards). That pretty much qualifies as "rare" when taken in context.

[packs]

You keep claiming that your ad was sincere and wonder why people were annoyed with it. If your ad was sincere, why not just say you were looking to pick up a Red Hindu at X price? Why did you make the decision to try to turn it into a "look how dumb these guys are!" post? Call a spade a spade. You picked a fight over card prices after you once again turned card collecting into this is how much I paid and this is how much money I have laying around for more cards. I don't think anyone is interested in either. And every time someone posts an example of the cards falling in the range speculated on, your response is "someone got a good deal on that card" which is exactly our point.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by packs

You keep claiming that your ad was sincere and wonder why people were annoyed with it. If your ad was sincere, why not just say you were looking to pick up a Red Hindu at X price? Why did you make the decision to try to turn it into a "look how dumb these guys are!" post? Call a spade a spade. You picked a fight over card prices after you once again turned card collecting into this is how much I paid and this is how much money I have laying around for more cards. I don't think anyone is interested in either. And every time someone posts an example of the cards falling in the range speculated on, your response is "someone got a good deal on that card" which is exactly our point.

No matter where you go on the internet there will be posters like Chicago. They scream for attention. We've seen it in various forms here on Net54. They all have their different personalities, but starting a confrontational B/S/T ad?? That's Bruce's territory. I don't even know what to say about posting a video of a 3 year old reeling off tobacco company names.

[Chicago206]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

No matter where you go on the internet there will be posters like Chicago. They scream for attention. We've seen it in various forms here on Net54. They all have their different personalities, but starting a confrontational B/S/T ad?? That's Bruce's territory. I don't even know what to say about posting a video of a 3 year old reeling off tobacco company names.

So its ok to use money to make a point about existing BL460 backs, but an absolute no-no to make a point about current pricing with a very sincere offer to pay for certain examples? Please clarify the difference between MY offer and TED's offer.

[Kawika]

Ted doesn't suck all the air out of the room.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by Chicago206

So its ok to use money to make a point about existing BL460 backs, but an absolute no-no to make a point about current pricing with a very sincere offer to pay for certain examples? Please clarify the difference between MY offer and TED's offer.

Ted was offering a reward for info about cards that he is fairly certain do not exist...he was doing it to make a point. He also has a long history in this hobby as a researcher, author, and collector. Your short history seems to be pissing everyone off on the CU boards, trekking over to our board and doing the same thing in short order.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by Chicago206

So its ok to use money to make a point about existing BL460 backs, but an absolute no-no to make a point about current pricing with a very sincere offer to pay for certain examples? Please clarify the difference between MY offer and TED's offer.

Let's try it this way --- every time you post, we all hear screaming, whining, complaining in your text. You could write the same sentence as any of us, and have it come off entirely different. That is because your personality on here is the worst most of us have seen in years. We all think you're a complete joke. So even if you had something valid to contribute, it would look like it was coming from the biggest fool in the room --

-- you have no credibility and have lost the ability to gain any credibility in the short term.

[dstudeba]

Originally Posted by Chicago206

If there are still 1,000,000 total T206 cards surviving in all grades/backs/and players, certainly the red Hindu version makes up far less than 1% of the total population, and quite possibly even far less than 1/2 of 1% (fewer than 5,000 total cards). That pretty much qualifies as "rare" when taken in context.

If you put it in that context I guess it could qualify as rare, but in the the context of card collecting I wouldn't consider something that had 5,000 examples rare. Despite what it looks like today, this board is a vintage baseball card board, not a T206 board.

[Browncow75]

So many people complain that there is too many T206 posts on here, but I dont understand why. If there is so much interest in other sets, wouldnt there be just as many posts about them? Nobody is keeping non-T206 posts from being posted, so lets get some threads going on them and BE CONSTRUCTIVE with them lol. Enough negativity! Again, just my 2 cents. Im running out of pocket change here people!

[dstudeba]

Sorry to come off as negative. My point was that while it might be a rare t206, when you say it is a rare baseball card, many would disagree since in the larger context of the board it is not a rare vintage card.

If people want to talk about t206 cards that is perfectly fine. I have said way too much it is time for me to shut up. Take care, bye.

[slidekellyslide]

I think T206 collectors for the most part don't even consider the Honus Wagner card to be rare.

[Browncow75]

If it wasnt for the internet, there would be a TON of "rare" cards, that we dont consider rare now. The ease of a quick Google search can find you just about any card you want to find these days, if you look hard enough.

[Chicago206]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

I think T206 collectors for the most part don't even consider the Honus Wagner card to be rare.

That may be a fact. However, as I stated earlier, "rare" is a relative term.

[rman444]

Originally Posted by jmk59

Here's the sad thing that is being lost. Some of the questions and issues Chx206 raises have good underlying substance - the kind of inquisitive exploration about the hobby that gives veterans a chance to help rookies and anyone else fortunate enough to be listening in. But the tenor of every thread and every post is so incredibly belligerent that no one wants to deal with it, help is barely forthcoming, and others with questions may figure it's just not worth it.

The life of the board is shared knowledge and a common experience. Anything that undermines that process - no matter how well intended - damages the board, IMHO.

Joann

Joann - good post. This is exactly my take, and I believe many veterans are shaking their heads in agreement as well. Is the board damaged? I believe so. Beyond repair? Time will tell.

[collectbaseball]

If I had a red Hindu to sell, it'd go to anyone but you for $300.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by rman444

Joann - good post. This is exactly my take, and I believe many veterans are shaking their heads in agreement as well. Is the board damaged? I believe so. Beyond repair? Time will tell.

Definitely damaged beyond repair. I want a refund....

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by rman444

Joann - good post. This is exactly my take, and I believe many veterans are shaking their heads in agreement as well. Is the board damaged? I believe so. Beyond repair? Time will tell.

This board survived Adam Moraine, Peter Chao's inanity, Marshall Barkman's ~NOIZE!!!!1~ and it will survive the Chicago kid.

[rhettyeakley]

I REALLY try hard not to get into these types of fights BUT I view this T206Chicago guy like most do as a bit of a tough character to want to stick-up for.

I have a hard time putting my finger on exactly why he annoys the hell out of me but the closest I can come is this...

We all have groups of fairly close-knit friends that we may even have inside jokes with, and along comes a guy that wants to be part of that group and his way of doing that involves dominating all the conversation even when he doesn't know what the heck he is even talking about. We've all experienced this at one time or another.

He comes off as a guy that hasn't done any due deligence in researching but makes assinine comments that don't even warrant a response. His childish reactions to everything just make me cringe.

When you have a few hundred of the most knowledgable collectors in the world gathered together here on this forum and a relative nube (w/ at most 5 months in the vintage hobby altogether) trying to dominate the conversation it just annoys the hell out of us!

-Rhett

[wonkaticket]

Wagner isn't rare however the 750-1mm+ dollars to get a nice example seems to be tougher to come by...

[Potomac Yank]

Here's what I'm getting from the kind, and understanding folks of this forum.

In so many words, they are saying ... build a seperate forum for the special breed.

Let's call it ... The Cat Walk for Tender Skin Pussy Cats.

Build it, and they will come.

[Browncow75]

Good point John...

There are a bunch of "common" HOF'er cards I cant afford, except in "rare" situations. Sorry couldnt resist.

[Browncow75]

Originally Posted by Potomac Yank

Here's what I'm getting from the kind, and understanding folks of this forum.

In so many words, they are saying ... build a seperate forum for the special breed.

Let's call it ... The Cat Walk for Tender Skin Pussy Cats.

Build it, and they will come.

Hey Joe,
Maybe Leon can alter the signup page with a box to check that says "Does not play well with others". We will know who to look out for then!

[Chicago206]

Originally Posted by Browncow75

Hey Joe,
Maybe Leon can alter the signup page with a box to check that says "Does not play well with others". We will know who to look out for then!

And maybe tweak the software so that you arent allowed an opinion until you can prove you have been collecting for at least 25 years!

[Browncow75]

I try not to make any direct statements about vintage because I dont have the money or collection to back up anything I might say. I collect, therefore I am. ????????

[Abravefan11]

It's not that you can't be new to the hobby or board and post. I for one wish more of the knowledgeable lurkers and new people to the hobby would post.

But it would help if they did a quick search before they posted and if they couldn't find the answer to their question create a new thread with a polite question and let the knowledge come to them.

Unfortunately these flare ups dissuade many from getting involved.

[Potomac Yank]

Originally Posted by Chicago206

And maybe tweak the software so that you arent allowed an opinion until you can prove you have been collecting for at least 25 years!

*

Simply stated, he's an amateur. ..... He can't handle an opposing opinon.

[whitehse]

All I can say is that I have been reading these boards for what has to be 5 years or more. I dont often chime in because I have acknowledged that there are people on these boards who have far more understanding of pre-war than I will ever have. I log on, read the boards, absorb information, gain knowledge, post occasionally and appreciate everyone here. But I have to tell you Phil has worn out his welcome on every board he has been on. To him its all about the money he has to throw around.

So in my best south side Chicago accent because I know thats where you live....

Phil, we get it..you have some money to trow around and you have that HUGE sout side ego you need to feed. Just get this tru your thick freaking head...don't come on here talking bout da cards you know nutting about yet. Absorb information and den make a contriBUtion worth writin' about. Now go get yourself a polish and a RC cola for dinner and relax!!

[Rob D.]

Andrew,

Thanks for the RC reference. One of my fondest collecting memories is drinking rivers of that stuff in the summers of 1977 and '78 in an attempt to collect complete sets of 70 and 100 cans, respectively. Displayed them pyramid style on top of a bookcase in my room.

[Bridwell]

I loved the RC Cola cans, at first. But they sure took up a lot of space in my closet! Eventually I dumped them cheap at a show in the 1980's. Got tired of moving them around. Also dumped the 7-11 cups. Remember them?

Ron R

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Bridwell

Also dumped the 7-11 cups. Remember them?

Ron R

Boy, do I remember those!!

[Bridwell]

At least the 7-11 cups were stackable. I had dozens of those!

[whitehse]

RC Cola cans....geez I had forgotten all about those. I never thought about collecting those when I was drinking the pop. My mom would have killed me!!

[Wite3]

Some definitions for Chicago:

Common- a knee jerk reaction to a differing opinion.

Scarce- An understanding that many of us have put in years, and in some cases, decades of research and data collection to reinforce our opinions and theories.

Rare- a post that is non antagonistic in its approach or a sincere request for knowledge in order to educate oneself on some of the finer points of baseball cards.

Joshua

[FUBAR]

Rare.. the proper way to cook a steak!!!

When it comes to cards i like the term "price sensitive" rather then rare.

[jmk59]

Originally Posted by Chicago206

And maybe tweak the software so that you arent allowed an opinion until you can prove you have been collecting for at least 25 years!

Hmmm. Do I want to try this? OK. I'll try it.

Chicago, it's not at all that you can't have an opinion because you haven't been around the hobby for 25 years. The problem is that you absolutely DEMAND that your opinion be counted exactly equally as those that come from much more experienced and knowledgable collectors.

If you have mysterious headaches, do you want the opinion of a doctor with 25 years specializing in all forms of research, analysis, diagnosis and treatments of mystery headaches? Or are you OK with the opinion of a freshman in a pre-med college program that is taking Biology and Algebra? Are both opinions equally reliable? If the freshman wants to argue with the experienced specialist and adamantly insist that the specialist isn't showing proper respect to his opinion, wouldn't the specialist start getting irritated at some point?

It's not that you can't have an opinion. It's that you have no respect for the fact that the opinions of some of the others properly carry more weight around here.

I don't post as much as I used to here for a variety of reasons, but I at least try to read and keep up. This kind of thing makes even that difficult sometimes.

Joann

[Chicago206]

Originally Posted by jmk59

Hmmm. Do I want to try this? OK. I'll try it.

Chicago, it's not at all that you can't have an opinion because you haven't been around the hobby for 25 years. The problem is that you absolutely DEMAND that your opinion be counted exactly equally as those that come from much more experienced and knowledgable collectors.

If you have mysterious headaches, do you want the opinion of a doctor with 25 years specializing in all forms of research, analysis, diagnosis and treatments of mystery headaches? Or are you OK with the opinion of a freshman in a pre-med college program that is taking Biology and Algebra? Are both opinions equally reliable? If the freshman wants to argue with the experienced specialist and adamantly insist that the specialist isn't showing proper respect to his opinion, wouldn't the specialist start getting irritated at some point?

It's not that you can't have an opinion. It's that you have no respect for the fact that the opinions of some of the others properly carry more weight around here.

I don't post as much as I used to here for a variety of reasons, but I at least try to read and keep up. This kind of thing makes even that difficult sometimes.

Joann

If the 25+ year doctor insists that my head hurts because "he says so", and the freshman goes into detail the possible reasons why its hurting...then I listen to the freshman. If crotchety old 25+ year collectors tell me the Cobb/Cobb is a T206 cuz Burdick said so, well then....you get the idea.

[JP]

Like a little kid that flinchs when a bully raises his fist, I think a lot of hobby vets are flinching in response to Chicago's posts, whether or not it has merits. A vacation seems in order...

[buymycards]

Chicago, you made your first post on Feb 14, and so far you have made 266 posts. Maybe it's time for you to just shut up for a while.

Rick

[whitehse]

Originally Posted by Chicago206

If the 25+ year doctor insists that my head hurts because "he says so", and the freshman goes into detail the possible reasons why its hurting...then I listen to the freshman. If crotchety old 25+ year collectors tell me the Cobb/Cobb is a T206 cuz Burdick said so, well then....you get the idea.

Damn..this definitely shows your lack of respect for guys who have put alot of time in this hobby far more than you ever will. Ask your questions but dont disrespect your elders.

So I assume a proby in your engine company telling the captain that he is wrong about how a fire will work its way through a home because he was taught differently in the academy will be accepted by the Captain??? I bet not. Experience trumps book knowledge and you have 3 months experience in a hobby many of us have put 30+ years into!

Just as I am sure your captain will tell the new guy you need to do the same....sit down...shut the hell up and learn something from the other guys!! But I assume this will not happen because your ego is so large that you cant just shut up and listen. I bet you thrive on all the commotion you have stirred up dont you!! throw your money around, and show everyone how well off you are!! sadly, you really have shown most of us more of yourself than we will ever care to know. Go back to coins!!

[Wite3]

Chicago,
Just so you know...T-206s are called T-206s for the exact reason you said, "Burdick said so." Before him, they were called tobacco cards, collector cards, by their brands, or players, or teams, etc....He cataloged and gave them the designations you use. So, yes, I will listen to Burdick. Feel free to start calling them something else but your analogy is slightly flawed. Call the Cobb whatever you wish but in many people's opinions it is a T206 in the classic sense.

There is something to be said about experience and knowledge.

Joshua

[Leon]

When I was in the Corps I can assure you that a boot lieutenant wouldn't be bossing around a master seargent. Of course technically he has rank on him but it would never happen out of respect and common sense. I have only been doing this around 15 yrs, but almost every single day and in an addictive fashion (with internet the last 11-12yrs)......and I still listen to my hobby elders about things. I think it was Buckminster Fuller who said "we are the sum total of our experiences." Words to live by......

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by Chicago206

If crotchety old 25+ year collectors tell me the Cobb/Cobb is a T206 cuz Burdick said so, well then....you get the idea.

I also support a "vacation" for this guy.

[White Borders]

I've still got my complete sets of '77 & '78 RC Cola Cans (empty) in my closet. Got a few dupes - if anyone is interested PM or email me.

Best Regards,
Craig

[Rob D.]

Originally Posted by White Borders

I've still got my complete sets of '77 & '78 RC Cola Cans (empty) in my closet. Got a few dupes - if anyone is interested PM or email me.

Best Regards,
Craig

Craig,

I gotta ask: Are they opened from the top or bottom?

[Tom S.]

Folks, it seems like we have lost our focus concerning this thread. We need to get this back on track so that we can help the OP in his challenge to corner the market on Red Hindu backs.

[tedzan]

This dude thinks he is this forum's "Steve McQueen"....Well, recall "The Great Escape", where McQueen was sent to the "cooler".

It's time to relegate this dude to the "cooler" for a week and provide him a bunch of vintage BB books to read (e.g.."Ty and the
Babe", "The Year They Called Off The World Series", etc.). So he can appreciate the pictures on the FRONT of these T206's.

And, perhaps when he returns, he will have cooled down, moderated his rhetoric, and hopefully be more informed.

[tonyo]

Originally Posted by tedzan

provide him a bunch of vintage BB books to read (e.g.."Ty and the
Babe", "The Year They Called Off The World Series", etc.). So he can appreciate the pictures on the FRONT of these T206's.

The Celebrant.....recommended to me by this board. Reading the book was the first time I saw Christy Mathewson play and John McGraw manage.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by tedzan

So he can appreciate the pictures on the FRONT of these T206's.

And, perhaps when he returns, he will have cooled down, moderated his rhetoric, and hopefully be more informed.

Ted- I don't think it's anyone's business to tell people what to appreciate. I don't make a big deal of it but, very honestly, I think I like the backs as much as the fronts myself. That being said I also try to learn about the history of the hobby, the cards, the players etc... At the same time I will continue to moderate as little as possible, which is the way I feel boards should be run... good, bad or indifferent. IF Chicago206 keeps getting into turmoil then of course something will have to be done. I hope it doesn't get to that point. take care

[Griffins]

Originally Posted by Kawika

Because you irritate the shit out of me.

Originally Posted by calvindog

I'm laughing as I type this...

Pissing David off takes a pretty huge effort.

David just had a big birthday yesterday. He's now at that age where he says exactly what he thinks.

And probably exactly what the rest of us are thinking as well.

If an outright banning isn't warranted how about a 30 day timeout? I believe there is a precedent and would restore some order to the board.