Not O/T - Does Marriage Counseling Work?

[wolterse]

Gents -

As we are all aware, this is a HUGE month on the auction block. I've spent many hours combing through numerous catalogs and web pages carefully selecting those lots that fit - oh so well - into my pre-war collection. Visions and feelings of anticipation, adrenaline, and anxiety flowing through my mind and body as I see the clock strike zero to declare me the winner. Hooray!

Yes, this is my goal. Yet, I've run into a bit of a roadblock.

My wife.

I brought all my finanial data to lunch with us on Saturday. I explained how everything would flow - our savings plan, her investment priorities, and my hobby 'stash' - into a plan that we could both agree to. And I got hobby stash budget approved. Yes! Here I come...but not so fast.

My wife tells me yesterday - 'Erich, you say baseball cards are an investment (yes, that's how I position it to her - I could never get away with spending the money I do by saying this is a hobby!). Well I need you to prove it to me. If I'm going to allow you to spend X over the next couple weeks, than I need you to prove to me that it is a good investment for us. If it is, then I'll support your decision 100%. If it's not, then I'm going to dramatically decrease the amount of dollars I allow you to spend on your cards!'



I've been asked to present my 'findings' on the value that my current collection has increased over the past couple years. I need to benchmark it against (S&P500?) some baseline so I can demonstrate how well we're doing and why I deserve to spend my 'stash' this month.

A few questions for the board:
1) How would you position your stash budget to someone that doesn't 'get' why we love this hobby so much? Someone who only sees how much I spend and rolls their eyes.
2) Do I use VCP to value my cards, find trends, asking prices, and compare that to what I paid?
3) How do I benchmark my collection against a baseline that my wife would understand? S&P500 is down 10% from 2 years ago. I'm confident my collection is outpacing this metric. This could really make me look good!
4) Any other advice and wisdom would be helpful.

Yours in collecting,
Erich

Same problem here till I started to sell parts of the collection to focus on others, with the ocassional flip here and there. When she seen that the money was coming back the same or more and sometimes drastically more it all stopped. If I asked her for all the CC in the house to buy one card to flip or for the collection she ask what it is and looks at it wth me. We discuss it and then 99% of the time I buy the cards/s in question. Wish you well on this journey.

[jboosted92]

Originally Posted by wolterse

Gents -

As we are all aware, this is a HUGE month on the auction block. I've spent many hours combing through numerous catalogs and web pages carefully selecting those lots that fit - oh so well - into my pre-war collection. Visions and feelings of anticipation, adrenaline, and anxiety flowing through my mind and body as I see the clock strike zero to declare me the winner. Hooray!

Yes, this is my goal. Yet, I've run into a bit of a roadblock.

My wife.

I brought all my finanial data to lunch with us on Saturday. I explained how everything would flow - our savings plan, her investment priorities, and my hobby 'stash' - into a plan that we could both agree to. And I got hobby stash budget approved. Yes! Here I come...but not so fast.

My wife tells me yesterday - 'Erich, you say baseball cards are an investment (yes, that's how I position it to her - I could never get away with spending the money I do by saying this is a hobby!). Well I need you to prove it to me. If I'm going to allow you to spend X over the next couple weeks, than I need you to prove to me that it is a good investment for us. If it is, then I'll support your decision 100%. If it's not, then I'm going to dramatically decrease the amount of dollars I allow you to spend on your cards!'



I've been asked to present my 'findings' on the value that my current collection has increased over the past couple years. I need to benchmark it against (S&P500?) some baseline so I can demonstrate how well we're doing and why I deserve to spend my 'stash' this month.

A few questions for the board:
1) How would you position your stash budget to someone that doesn't 'get' why we love this hobby so much? Someone who only sees how much I spend and rolls their eyes.
2) Do I use VCP to value my cards, find trends, asking prices, and compare that to what I paid?
3) How do I benchmark my collection against a baseline that my wife would understand? S&P500 is down 10% from 2 years ago. I'm confident my collection is outpacing this metric. This could really make me look good!
4) Any other advice and wisdom would be helpful.

Yours in collecting,
Erich

I provide the only income in the house.....i cant offer any good advice, unless you are the sole provider

[Section103]

From the outside, you can't understand it. From the inside, you can't explain it.

Tracking the S&P, DJ or any financial index is a piece of cake. You almost cant "not be able to do it". It's the tracking of your collection that is usually difficult, time-consuming, and sketchily accurate.

[bigtrain]

Been married 29 years and I have spent lots of money on my collection over the years. A lot of items have doubled or tripled in value, very few are worth less than I paid. I don't think it would matter to my wife if I didn't make a nickel on my collection. She has never complained or questioned my judgment on financing my collection. Not because I am always right, not because I never make a mistake, not because I am the primary "breadwinner". She supports my hobby because it makes me happy and that makes me easier to live with. I have never seen my collection as an investment. I invest in stocks, mutual funds and real estate. Being a successful investor may make me happy but owning shares of Apple or Cisco or whatever will never give me the joy of owning a Babe Ruth autograph or a T206 Drum back. To me, treating my collection as an investment would take some of the joy out of it. I would worry too much about losing value. I prefer to spend what I can afford but never spend more than I can afford to lose.

[Jacklitsch]

Originally Posted by bigtrain

Been married 29 years and I have spent lots of money on my collection over the years. A lot of items have doubled or tripled in value, very few are worth less than I paid. I don't think it would matter to my wife if I didn't make a nickel on my collection. She has never complained or questioned my judgment on financing my collection. Not because I am always right, not because I never make a mistake, not because I am the primary "breadwinner". She supports my hobby because it makes me happy and that makes me easier to live with. I have never seen my collection as an investment. I invest in stocks, mutual funds and real estate. Being a successful investor may make me happy but owning shares of Apple or Cisco or whatever will never give me the joy of owning a Babe Ruth autograph or a T206 Drum back. To me, treating my collection as an investment would take some of the joy out of it. I would worry too much about losing value. I prefer to spend what I can afford but never spend more than I can afford to lose.

Perfect!!

[ChiefBenderForever]

I just say this is my entertainment, do you want me to spend money on cards or strippers ? Cards will always win out !

[tbob]

Originally Posted by bigtrain

Been married 29 years and I have spent lots of money on my collection over the years. A lot of items have doubled or tripled in value, very few are worth less than I paid. I don't think it would matter to my wife if I didn't make a nickel on my collection. She has never complained or questioned my judgment on financing my collection. Not because I am always right, not because I never make a mistake, not because I am the primary "breadwinner". She supports my hobby because it makes me happy and that makes me easier to live with. I have never seen my collection as an investment. I invest in stocks, mutual funds and real estate. Being a successful investor may make me happy but owning shares of Apple or Cisco or whatever will never give me the joy of owning a Babe Ruth autograph or a T206 Drum back. To me, treating my collection as an investment would take some of the joy out of it. I would worry too much about losing value. I prefer to spend what I can afford but never spend more than I can afford to lose.

Ditto. I don't question what my wife buys and vice-versa. Both of us are relatively frugal and completely pool our money with the exception of profit made from the sale of the cards which is plowed back in to more cards unless the money is needed around tax time or for some emergency. I am lucky, she is not that interested in card collecting but wants me to be happy so tolerates it.

[D. Broughman]

I think Andrew hit it on the head. You have to get her involved and let her know her input is important to you. I took my wife with me to antique shops and auctions and showed her things I thought where good to buy but let her make the call. We bought some and then looked them up and the value was higher. Now I have to watch her with the auction card she wants to buy but don't know the value.

[M's_Fan]

One of the most important factors to explain is liquidity and "exit strategy."

Explain how easy it would be to consign your cards to be sold, or sell yourself on eBay.

Also explain how inflation is likely hitting some day soon, and physical assets will be a good place to be.

[scooter729]

Erich,

How about you get some shills in the crowd to send bogus emails to you, offering 2x-3x what you paid for items in your collection??

Nah, I would say just show her some VCP prices to show what you could get for some of your items if you wanted to sell. It's hard to market to a non-collector how this could be better than a mutual fund portfolio for your investment dollar, but hopefully as your wife she'll be supportive of you!

[bbcard1]

Don't you guys just find a way to hide a little stash to spend on your cards? I usually stash my travel $. I have also planted clues to convince her that I have a raging hookers and blow habit and I expect she will be relieved when she finds out it is only baseball cards

[drc]

Just remember that marriage counseling isn't free. You have to have some money left over to pay for it.

[bwiller]

Hey Erich, see if this blog post I wrote will help you: Sports Card Index

[slidekellyslide]

I'm eternally grateful that my wife already was aware of and accepting of my sickness before she said "Yes."

[Robextend]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

I'm eternally grateful that my wife already was aware of and accepting of my sickness before she said "Yes."

That's funny Dan, because I had to make sure my current g/f would be ok with my hobby insanity. She is actually happy anytime I get a new card in the mail, and wants to learn about the hobby too. She could be the one!!

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by Robextend

That's funny Dan, because I had to make sure my current g/f would be ok with my hobby insanity. She is actually happy anytime I get a new card in the mail, and wants to learn about the hobby too. She could be the one!!

My wife couldn't really give a crap about my cards and memorabilia...I can tell when she is feigning interest...and that's okay. I'm responsible...I don't buy stuff I can't afford and I've sold plenty in order to finance other purchases.

[FUBAR]

Originally Posted by Robextend

That's funny Dan, because I had to make sure my current g/f would be ok with my hobby insanity. She is actually happy anytime I get a new card in the mail, and wants to learn about the hobby too. She could be the one!!

Dont tell them too much Rob, i had a sweetie that took an interest in my hobby and thats the one that took me for 50K worth of cards and left me the junk! I couldnt believe i fell for it, she asked nicely how price guides worked and how to look things up and helped me sort my cards and asked me about players..... when we broke it off, i didnt know she had stolen a whole bunch, she sent me an email asking what she should do with the cards i gave her ( i gave her some crap cards i didnt want) I sent her an email back that she should keep them and do what she wants with them. Sell them keep them whatever... little did i know, this was her defense when i went to the police. She now has a letter from me saying i gave them to her and i told her she could keep them and sell them, which she did to all my goodies i never knew she took until later!

i guess my point is.. be careful not to divulge too much, you never know what their motive may be down the road, a scorned women is dangerous.

[John V]

This thread reminds me of a post my brother-in-law saw on his woodworker's forum...
"When I'm dead, I hope my wife doesn't sell my tools for what I told her I paid for them!"
I guess the word "tools" can be replaced with cards, gloves, trophies, bats, etc.

[donmuth]

Originally Posted by FUBAR

Dont tell them too much Rob, i had a sweetie that took an interest in my hobby and thats the one that took me for 50K worth of cards and left me the junk! I couldnt believe i fell for it, she asked nicely how price guides worked and how to look things up and helped me sort my cards and asked me about players..... when we broke it off, i didnt know she had stolen a whole bunch, she sent me an email asking what she should do with the cards i gave her ( i gave her some crap cards i didnt want) I sent her an email back that she should keep them and do what she wants with them. Sell them keep them whatever... little did i know, this was her defense when i went to the police. She now has a letter from me saying i gave them to her and i told her she could keep them and sell them, which she did to all my goodies i never knew she took until later!

i guess my point is.. be careful not to divulge too much, you never know what their motive may be down the road, a scorned women is dangerous.

Is your ex-gf one of the ones on eBay claiming she was left with her ex's ball card collection and sells random cards for a few dollars per lot with the chance of getting a high $ card?

Ouch... man that had to hurt. At least you're smarter and wiser now...

[Leon]

Frank- we have gone over this before .

I can easily say I am an investor and a collector. As a matter of fact I feel I am one of the more passionate collectors on the board. I still get a tingle when I get a card like the Thorpe recently, which I have no intention of selling (SEE BST tomorrow). At the same time I like to think I make smart decisions on what I buy. That way when I do go to sell them, hopefully in the very distant future, I can get my money back and maybe even a little more. Even if I don't get more I have had a lot of pleasure in collecting. I do consider them an investment almost as much as a collectible. How can I not consider them that way when I put out so much, relative to my other resources, for them?

As for my wife. Ever since I made a trip out to California, several years ago, and came back with a nice check in hand, she hasn't said a word. I handle all of the finances in the family and we both like it that way. She knows that I sometimes make a little and sometimes lose a little. It seems I get packages as least 3-4 times a week and she doesn't blink an eye. She's a great wife!!

[Kawika]

Originally Posted by wolterse

. . . then I'm going to dramatically decrease the amount of dollars I allow you to spend on your cards . . . Any other advice and wisdom would be helpful.

At times like this I always ask myself "What would Cagney do"?



(Profuse apologies in advance to Joann and all other enlightened N54ers. It's the Weisenheimer's Disease; I can't help it).

[FrankWakefield]

1- If your cards are really an investment, then you should have no qualms about liquidating your position. If you're cards are up, you should be joyed to sell right now.

2- Cards are not an investment. I've gone over this before. Invest in mutual funds, stocks, bonds, a home, an education, a kid's education, real estate... You're fooling yourself if you think cards are an investment.

3- Seems to me more folks here are collectors, not investors, when it comes to their cards. There's not really any reason for a purest card investor to even fool with this site.

4- I don't think your wife should invest in Tiffany bracelets or rings... she'd have an attachment to those, they aren't investments even though they hold some value.

So I think your wife may well be right. Sell all of those investments. Then scale back what you spend on cards, to a collectible level. And let the rest of the idle money go into traditional, true investments.

[HercDriver]

I don't know about you, but my stocks took a pounding over the last few years. Not to mention my house. Show her the price of a card you collect from 2006 and what it sells for today - probably about the same. Then show her the market's performance and go on Zillow and check your house value. I bet the cards held their own while the others dropped. Just a thought...

Take Care,
Geno

[Ladder7]

Cagney's not a bad choice. But, I'd ask myself what would Turok do?

[wolterse]

Great advice! My wife is an economic major in grad school now so it's really impossible for me to avoid this conversation.

I think I need to pull a Tony Soprano and keep my stash under the floor boards

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by FrankWakefield

2- Cards are not an investment. I've gone over this before.

LOL! Although I may agree with your sentiment, Frank, I do think it's possible that someone else may have a different opinion than yours, even if you have "gone over this before."