Rollins- lots of hot air

[Kenny Cole]

I don't guess that Wharton has a class that teaches class. Too bad.

[kmac32]

The thing I found fun was Johnny Damon has a World Series ring from the Yankees and their rival the Red Sox. Not too many can claim that one.

[Neal]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Without the late summer pickups of Lee and Pedro it's hard to imagine the Phillies even getting to the WS. My point being that success in one or two years is not guaranteed going forward. I agree the Phils have a great core but they've got some work to do to stay on top in the NL.

but the PHILLIES got those players, much like the Yankees did with CC, AJ, and Tex

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by kmac32

The thing I found fun was Johnny Damon has a World Series ring from the Yankees and their rival the Red Sox. Not too many can claim that one.

The only two I can think of are Damon and Hinske.

[PhilNap]

Originally Posted by Jay Wolt

So what was Jimmy Rollins supposed to say when a reporter asked him who will win the Series?
Of course he should predict his team to win it all.

He should take a page from the book of Jeter, Rivera, etc. He could have offered a confident response and not the cocky "5 games, 6 if we're nice". Don't think the Yankees didn't take note of such comments. At least the Redsox and their fans respect that they have a battle on their hands everytime they face the Yankees. The cockiness of Rollins and many Phillies fans just proved to be plain silly.

[nolemmings]

The only two I can think of are Damon and Hinske.

Ramiro Mendoza --not on the Bosox WS roster, but likely got a ring

[tothrk]

Originally Posted by PhilNap

He should take a page from the book of Jeter, Rivera, etc. He could have offered a confident response and not the cocky "5 games, 6 if we're nice". Don't think the Yankees didn't take note of such comments. At least the Redsox and their fans respect that they have a battle on their hands everytime they face the Yankees. The cockiness of Rollins and many Phillies fans just proved to be plain silly.

Relax. No one is making you have dinner with the guy.

[PhilNap]

Originally Posted by tothrk

Relax. No one is making you have dinner with the guy.

Just sayin' J-Roll shoulda kept his mouth shut. Oh well, too bad for him. Works for me though. Yankees Win Thaaaaa Yankees Win !!!!!!

[ChiefBenderForever]

Jim,the Twins will pay Mauer the money and I think he will stay but if they don't bring any help besides triple A players he might say no thanks and leave. To play for the Yankees is the greatest challenge in baseball and he might just try it.

[thekingofclout]

Originally Posted by kmac32

The thing I found fun was Johnny Damon has a World Series ring from the Yankees and their rival the Red Sox. Not too many can claim that one.

The Bambino won three with the Sox and four with the Yanks...

[ullmandds]

I was Joe Mauer of the future for halloween this year...mainly to antagonize my fellow Minnesotans...I don't think it will happen, though. If the twins don't pony up the cash to keep Joe...and put some other high caliber talent on the field...they'll never advance past the first round of the playoffs...and there will be mutiny!

[howard38]

Wally Schang and Carl Mays and maybe some of the other guys the Sox traded to the Yanks around 1920 have rings w/both teams.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by PhilNap

At least the Redsox and their fans respect that they have a battle on their hands everytime they face the Yankees. The cockiness of Rollins and many Phillies fans just proved to be plain silly.

I had the fortune of being in Boston during a Yankees/Sox playoff series and in Philadelphia this year during the World Series. The difference between the fans in Philadelphia and Boston is really striking.

[barrysloate]

Think of poor Mike Mussina. He joined the Yankees in 2001 and retired in 2008. He missed all the championships by one year on either end.

[J.McMurry]

If the Phils would have had better pitching they might have made it at least a 7 game series,but they were certainly the best team the National league had to put up against the Yanks this year.

some on here have said that they dont care for the modern game of baseball,but they love collecting pre-war BB cards. I'm like that in the fact that I dislike the modern day Yankees (except Jeter), but I love anything "historical" * Yankees and NYC. go figure.


* "historical" = pre 1970

[Jay Wolt]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Think of poor Mike Mussina. He joined the Yankees in 2001 and retired in 2008. He missed all the championships by one year on either end.

I was thinking about the Moose too!
He retired last year after his 1st 20 win season, so if he chose to
he would have been welcome to join the team at the new stadium.
BUT it might have been at the expense of the Yankees signing Pettitte.

[whycough]

The Yanks: $201,449,000 The Phils: $113,004,000 Big win there also, Yankee fans.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by whycough

The Yanks: $201,449,000 The Phils: $113,004,000 Big win there also, Yankee fans.

Yeah, why even play the games? After all, in a best of 7 series, the most expensive players always play the best.

[whycough]

Jeff: All Yankee fans love to pooh pooh the advantage of the Yankee spending. You claim that the highest priced players don't always play the best, so why do the Yanks pay them? To cover up for poor management? To cover up insecurity? To level the playing field and be good sports?

[sportscardtheory]

Ever wonder why people hate Yankees fans so much? This douchey thread shows why.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by whycough

The Yanks: $201,449,000 The Phils: $113,004,000 Big win there also, Yankee fans.

$88,000,000 here, $88,000,000 there, can start to add up.

[JasonL]

I have to say that I try to have an open mind, but hear me out on this series of thoughts.
I grew up in Chicago, and I am a lifelong Cubs fan. I know suffering. I know what it is to appreciate a winning season. The couple of trips to the playoffs that I have witnessed were very special.
I have never liked the Yankees, but I have never disliked them with any true intensity either.
Until I moved out East. And I met the Yankee culture and the Mission Statement that explains any season without a title as a failure. I find that to be excessively hardcore and borderline subpar sportsmanship. Don't misunderstand - I get winning, and I certainly understand goals.
But in this case I also find it to be a gross perversion of your objective, because in a major league sport, the quality and success of your competition is important to your livelihood. This is different than the business world, so while many want to link the two and ask the skeptic "Why wouldn't you do everything you can to win?" - the real question at this point for the Yankees may be something closer to "Are we doing something special?" and I would argue that you most certainly are not doing something special. Not anymore. You are doing something rather ordinary. Since their first title, I think they've won nearly a third of the time.

Hearing the media and the fan base praise this team and this championship just rings so holllow, doesn't it? I mean, they've won 27 of these now, they have the highest payroll in the game that is designed to bring in a squad of mercenaries, and the only expectation is to win everything, all the time, all year long, and every year thereafter. So where's the upside in being a Yankees fan? think about it. All you've got is downside. What fun is that?

It's still an accomplishment. But it was an accomplishment that was paid for in full and fully expected.
YAWN! so what.
you know what I mean? It just seems so silly to celebrate this team and yet another championship with such wild enthusiasm.
I know I look at this with an outsider's lens, and from that of someone who hasn't won in a beyond overdue timeframe, so it's probably fair and right to call me a jealous loser. True enough.
But just so you know, Yankees fans, this looks totally absurd and disconnected with reality from the outside.

No offense meant. honest.
Just some frustrated thoughts from someone who must look into vintage cardboard and research to find a year when his team looked like a champion.

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by whycough

The Yanks: $201,449,000 The Phils: $113,004,000 Big win there also, Yankee fans.

I don't understand your meaning. Would you be happier if the Yankees kept their payroll at $115 million (or some other abritrary number) and just made an additional $85 million in bottom line profit? Should the money just go to George rather than the players?

The fact is that Steinbrenner has built a business that generates more revenue than his competitors. It wasn't that way when he bought the team.

The best players want to go to the Yankees because, yes, they know they'll make the best money in the business, but more because they know they'll be expected to win, AND they know that management will give them every chance to win, every year.

There are many other owners who have more money than the Steinbrenner family. They just choose to not spend it on their baseball teams. That's their choice, but the fans pay the price.

Anyway, if you don't like this system, suggest an alternative.

[calvindog]

Amazing that the Yankees don't spread the wealth around to the other teams (oh wait, they do!) so that they reduce their chances of winning. You'd think that in today's society the Steinbrenners would be more sensitive to the plights of the other billionaire owners.

[base_ball]

"It's not if you win or lose, it's how you march in the parade."

[calvindog]

Jason, I'm not a Yankee fan so I can appreciate your points. Being a Yankee fan is probably more stressful than being a Cubs fan because the Yankees actually are expected to win as opposed to being mired in a culture of failure. I guess it depends on how you look at life: expecting success at every turn can be stressful but one tends to achieve success more often; hoping for the best but being at peace with failure usually produces the opposite results. Of course a zillion dollar payroll does help the former philosophy off the ground.

But to think that the Yankees are the only team which hires mercenaries is just not true as you fully know. Hell, the Brewers traded for Sabbathia last year just to get them into the playoffs. The Phillies did it this year with Pedro and Cliff Lee. At least the Yankees kept their team intact at the trading deadline and didn't have major contributors join the team with two months left in the season.

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Amazing that the Yankees don't spread the wealth around to the other teams (oh wait, they do!) so that they reduce their chances of winning. You'd think that in today's society the Steinbrenners would be more sensitive to the plights of the other billionaire owners.

There is not widespread demand for additional revenue sharing because the lower level team don't want to be forced to actually spend the money they receive.

The current system has two components revenue sharing: national TV money and a luxury tax. This creates a financial dis-incentive for bad teams to get better. Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Florida and KC, for example, have most of their payroll covered by shared money. If I remember right, the Pirates, playing in a new, publicly funded stadium, make a profit before they sell even one ticket. Their payroll is lower than the amount of money they receive from the league. Yet each season, we hear that they must sell or trade their best players for financial reasons.

Take a page from European League Soccer.

I would consider taking the 30 MLB teams and putting them in two divisions. A 20 team Major League and a 10 team "AAAA" league. Each year, let the top two "AAAA" teams move up and the bottom two Major League teams move down. The lower league gets no national TV games (or money). They get no All-Stars. They get their own playoffs, but no shot at a World Series, just their own league championship.



Then you'll see who wants to get better. They bad owners, who don't care, will be out in no time.

[JasonL]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Jason, I'm not a Yankee fan so I can appreciate your points. Being a Yankee fan is probably more stressful than being a Cubs fan because the Yankees actually are expected to win as opposed to being mired in a culture of failure. I guess it depends on how you look at life: expecting success at every turn can be stressful but one tends to achieve success more often; hoping for the best but being at peace with failure usually produces the opposite results. Of course a zillion dollar payroll does help the former philosophy off the ground.

But to think that the Yankees are the only team which hires mercenaries is just not true as you fully know. Hell, the Brewers traded for Sabbathia last year just to get them into the playoffs. The Phillies did it this year with Pedro and Cliff Lee. At least the Yankees kept their team intact at the trading deadline and didn't have major contributors join the team with two months left in the season.

to see that they tried to keep the team intact and win with what they had...and it worked. And yes, everyone hires the big guns, or tries to if they can. Your thoughts on stress and success are spot on, of course. Perhaps that is why the Cubs have such a huge fan base...being a Cubs fan is about more than just winning a game or a season. It's not the win that defines you, it's the experience.

I will say this, though, and it runs a little counter to my original post...but then again maybe it doesn't. I enjoyed this year's team more than I have in the past, as they actually seemed to form a team, and I enjoyed the pies in the face and any sign that they had individual personalities. That stuff resonates more with me, as a fan.

[calvindog]

Jason, I agree regarding this year's Yankee team: they were likeable. Even ARod with all the crap he went through actually seemed human; I was thrilled that he did well. As a Dodgers fan growing up I loathed the Yankees in the late 70s because they were easy to hate (any team with Reggie is especially easy to hate). This year's team seemed to have a lot of fun and was filled with regular guys who played hard. Look at Mark Teixeira: has there ever been a zillionaire baseball player who is so likeable? (Apologies to Oriole and Sox fans, of course)

[Peter_Spaeth]

Why would you be thrilled that an admitted steroid-user, a guy who cheated serially on his wife, a guy whose self-centeredness knows no bounds, did well?

[forazzurri2axz]

...you would have turned in your parents for a quarter.---and maybe a boxing card of Schmeling.--your stupidity makes our stomachs turn.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Why would you be thrilled that an admitted steroid-user, a guy who cheated serially on his wife, a guy whose self-centeredness knows no bounds, did well?

That sounds like a description of half the guys on the Red Sox last championship team! Seriously, I felt bad for the guy; he was just pathetic and was clearly suffering. How often can one witness a career renaissance in just a three week period?

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by forazzurri2axz

...you would have turned in your parents for a quarter.---and maybe a boxing card of Schmeling.--your stupidity makes our stomachs turn.

If I had known that Dorskind was that hardcore of a Yankees fan I'd have told him before the last election that the Yankees only win World Series when the White House is occupied by Democrats....at least that has been true for their last 9 World Series wins.

I'm almost certain this little factoid will sway him to vote Obama in 2012.

[autograf]

Another drive by posting by Bruce..........he comes here and makes an inflammatory post and then never revisits the train wreck..............predictable..........probably just sitting back stroking his white cat in his grey jumpsuit right now..........

[JasonL]

Originally Posted by autograf

Another drive by posting by Bruce..........he comes here and makes an inflammatory post and then never revisits the train wreck..............predictable..........probably just sitting back stroking his white cat in his grey jumpsuit right now..........

talking to #2

[Chris Counts]

Dan, the Yankees didn't do too bad under Franklin D. Roosevelt as well, winning six World Series, including the all-time mark of four in a row ...

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

That sounds like a description of half the guys on the Red Sox last championship team! Seriously, I felt bad for the guy; he was just pathetic and was clearly suffering. How often can one witness a career renaissance in just a three week period?

The dude is his own worst enemy and has exhibited bad character on far too many occasions for me to feel badly for him, even leaving aside that it's generally hard to feel sorry for someone that rich and talented.

[tbob]

Originally Posted by Yankeefan51

As a lifelong Yankee fan, we take great pleasure in our latest victory.

Shouldn't it be "As lifelong Yankee fanS, we take great pleasure in our latest victory?" Otherwise you are referring not to your Dorskind group but using the royal "we" and looking silly.

[Anthony S.]

Originally Posted by tbob

Shouldn't it be "As lifelong Yankee fanS, we take great pleasure in our latest victory?" Otherwise you are referring not to your Dorskind group but using the royal "we" and looking silly.

Multiple Personality Disorder can be very taxing on proper grammatical usage.

[ChiefBenderForever]

Money can buy a lot of things but it can't buy you love,and can't buy championships.

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by tbob

Shouldn't it be "As lifelong Yankee fanS, we take great pleasure in our latest victory?" Otherwise you are referring not to your Dorskind group but using the royal "we" and looking silly.

Maybe during his tenure he didn't concentrate on grammar.

[Republicaninmass]

Money cant buy everything, but it can buy something big enough to pull up next to it

[tedzan]

Since a recent comparison was alluded to in a prior post here....here is the rest of the history....
of the Yankees AL Championships vs. U.S. Presidents.

World Series Champs annotated by **


1921......Harding (Republican)
1922......Harding (Republican)
1923......Coolidge (Republican) **
1926......Coolidge (Republican)
1927......Coolidge (Republican) **
1928......Coolidge (Republican) **
1932......Hoover (Republican) **
1936......Roosevelt (Democrat) **
1937......Roosevelt (Democrat) **
1938......Roosevelt (Democrat) **
1939......Roosevelt (Democrat) **
1941......Roosevelt (Democrat) **
1942......Roosevelt (Democrat)
1943......Roosevelt (Democrat) **
1947......Truman (Democrat) **
1949......Truman (Democrat) **
1950......Truman (Democrat) **
1951......Truman (Democrat) **
1952......Truman (Democrat) **
1953......Eisenhower (Republican) **
1955......Eisenhower (Republican)
1956......Eisenhower (Republican) **
1957......Eisenhower (Republican)
1958......Eisenhower (Republican) **
1960......Eisenhower (Republican)
1961......Kennedy (Democrat) **
1962......Kennedy (Democrat) **
1963......Kennedy (Democrat)
1964......Johnson (Democrat)
1976......Ford (Republican)
1977......Carter (Democrat) **
1978......Carter (Democrat) **
1981......Carter (Democrat)
1996......Clinton (Democrat) **
1998......Clinton (Democrat) **
1999......Clinton (Democrat) **
2000......Clinton (Democrat) **
2001......Bush (Republican)
2003......Bush (Republican)
2009......Obama (Democrat) **

AL Championships = 40
World Series Championships = 27


TED Z

[prewarsports]

Money CAN buy you championships.

Give the Royals Half a Billion Dollars to sign all the big free agents over the next few years and I bet they become one of the elite in Baseball.

[calvindog]

Are there any fans of any team but the Yankees that don't wish their team could and would spend all the money needed to win a championship?

[baseballart]

I can think of a few fans ;-)

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by prewarsports

Money CAN buy you championships.

Give the Royals Half a Billion Dollars to sign all the big free agents over the next few years and I bet they become one of the elite in Baseball.

Well, when Royal fans begin to show up to the games in the numbers the Yankee fans do; when they show a willingness to pay the same ticket prices; and/or watch the games on TV and attract advertising revenue at the same rate the Yankees do; then you have a right to complain.


However, they have never done that. The team just collects the revenue sharing and luxury tax money and pockets it.

Small market teams can, and do, compete in MLB. Twins seem to do a great job of it every year.


Edited to add: http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/article/132600

Read the first article. I bet KC clears enough from MLB and revenue sharing and luxury tax money to cover their entire payroll.

Stop using money as an excuse for poor management.

[sbfinley]

Originally Posted by Jim VB

Well, when Royal fans begin to show up to the games in the numbers the Yankee fans do; when they show a willingness to pay the same ticket prices; and/or watch the games on TV and attract advertising revenue at the same rate the Yankees do; then you have a right to complain.


However, they have never done that. The team just collects the revenue sharing and luxury tax money and pockets it.

Small market teams can, and do, compete in MLB. Twins seem to do a great job of it every year.


Edited to add: http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/article/132600

Read the first article. I bet KC clears enough from MLB and revenue sharing and luxury tax money to cover their entire payroll.

Stop using money as an excuse for poor management.

You can blame poor management all day. But do not blame KC fans.

[Jim VB]

I would never blame the fans directly for the problems of the team. I only ascribe "blame" to them in that they have accepted the status quo and are still willing to allow management to continue down the same paths.

I have respect for all fans, but especially like those, like the season ticket holders of the Cleveland Browns, who try to fight back.


Back in the early 1970's, Steinbrenner bought a team that was in total disarray. They had been bad for 10 years. They lost money. They didn't sell a lot of tickets. They put a poor product on the field. He invested his own money and took big dollar chances. Some worked out fine. Some he was forced to eat. He built the Yankees back to a financial powerhouse.

Fast forward 35+ years and he has the highest revenue team in the league. They draw in the neighborhood of 4,000,000 fans a year, despite ridiculous ticket prices. They have the richest TV deal of any team. And they are a team that expects to be competitive, if not win, every year.

I've asked this before and no Yankee haters ever answer, but what should he do with the money coming in? He continues to plow it back into the team. Should he just hoard it? Should he just record the profit and move on? Or should he continue to demand excellence from his players, coaches and team administration?

He already contributes big dollars ($40.0 - $50.0 million a year) into the weaker teams in the league. Many of them (not all) just sit on it. In 2003, the Marlins used something like $10.0 million (George's luxury tax money) to bring their entire organization and their families up to NY for the World Series (two trips). Yet when the season was over, they had to break up the team for financial reasons.

Look at this spreadsheet:
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?k...XT3cpPRtt9qIGw

Three and four years out, some of these teams have zero payroll obligations! Their management thinks this is the way to run a sound business? The fans should be outraged.


(By the way, this spreadsheet and many more can be found at:
http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/200...678860040.html

It's a terrific site that allows you to look, in detail at the salary set-up ov every team.)

[barrysloate]

It's hard to argue with the Yankees' success this year. They seemed to do everything right. The three big acquisitions were among the best in one season in baseball history. The team was exciting to watch and won with great regularity. Even if you don't like the Yankees, and see them as a bunch of bullies, they had a magnificent year.

And it would be nice, and in fact should be mandatory, that if small market teams collect luxury taxes from the Yankees and the like, they should not pocket that money but use it to improve the team. I'm sure the spirit of the luxury tax was to keep some semblance of competitive balance, and not just make those owners a little richer.