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#51
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Legendary Auctions. Should I call the police on them about having possible stolen material
Posted By: Peter_Spaeth
I think most people running auction houses -- which from all appearances continue to do remarkably well across the board -- perceive it as against self-interest to subject themselves to cross-examination in a public forum, particularly this one, WHETHER OR NOT they have anything to hide. What's the incentive? If they have the cards we want, we are going to bid. |
#52
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Legendary Auctions. Should I call the police on them about having possible stolen material
Posted By: Jeff Prizner
I'll be bidding. Stuff trumps all for me. I'm not going to fool myself into thinking that I'm able to 100% accurately determine which auction houses (if any) never do anything wrong. I'll bid with anyone, just will always proceed with caution. In the words of the great Bruce Dorskind - "trust no one" (well... at least to a certain extent). |
#53
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Legendary Auctions. Should I call the police on them about having possible stolen material
Posted By: JimCrandell
Barry, |
#54
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Legendary Auctions. Should I call the police on them about having possible stolen material
Posted By: barrysloate
It would have been nice if they found some way to respond, but now that I think about it it was unrealistic to expect them to do so. Many were probably told that if they came over here and posted they would be attacked mercilessly. |
#55
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Legendary Auctions. Should I call the police on them about having possible stolen material
Posted By: Peter_Spaeth
Jim, there are people I wouldn't buy from either but it really doesn't do much good as "they" consign tons of material to all the auction houses and you can't really avoid them unless you choose not to deal with anyone -- in my opinion. |
#56
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Legendary Auctions. Should I call the police on them about having possible stolen material
Posted By: Jeff Prizner
agreed Peter, that's the only way to know for sure that you're not dealing with someone who has ever done anything wrong in the hobby -- not collect. |
#57
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Legendary Auctions. Should I call the police on them about having possible stolen material
Posted By: Rob D.
I still remember the day Kit Young, with assistance from Leon, posted on the board. Within 10-15 posts there were attacks regarding transactions from 3-5 years prior. That's not an isolated example. I'd say more often than not when a prominent dealer or a representative from a major auction house -- who's not already a regular poster on the board -- makes an appearance, he is attacked in a pretty short time. I don't blame them at all for staying away. |
#58
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Legendary Auctions. Should I call the police on them about having possible stolen material
Posted By: leon
If I remember correctly that transaction was from 1987. Yes, 1987. That episode still makes me upset. The gentleman (Kit) couldn't even get his foot in the door before he got slammed. I was appalled...He and I have met a few times and he has always been one of the friendliest dealers I know... |
#59
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Legendary Auctions. Should I call the police on them about having possible stolen material
Posted By: Steve
Does it freaking matter when it happened? |
#60
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Legendary Auctions. Should I call the police on them about having possible stolen material
Posted By: Peter_Spaeth
LOL. |
#61
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Legendary Auctions. Should I call the police on them about having possible stolen material
Posted By: leon
I just went back and read the thread....Yes, it did happen and I am sure, from knowing you more now, that it was probably not handled well. I think that was the main issue. I saw where I offered to make it right financially but that wasn't really what the issue was about....At any rate, as I said in 2007, I think there is a time and place for everything. The first welcoming thread of someone is not really the perfect time to jump down their throat. Others may disagree..... |
#62
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Legendary Auctions. Should I call the police on them about having possible stolen material
Posted By: Rob D.
Like I said, I don't blame them at all for staying away. |
#63
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Legendary Auctions. Should I call the police on them about having possible stolen material
Posted By: Steve
And I said I was sorry at that time. |
#64
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Legendary Auctions. Should I call the police on them about having possible stolen material
Posted By: G.H. Counter
Aaron, Rob Lifson is not a saint either. |
#65
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Legendary Auctions. Should I call the police on them about having possible stolen material
Posted By: Aaron M.
"Aaron- Leon has been a good friend to those of us (myself included) that were unable to get paid from Mastro, despite many attempts to contact them thru a variety of channels. He got swift settlement. |
#66
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Legendary Auctions. Should I call the police on them about having possible stolen material
Posted By: Aaron M.
Hey, Marty. As others have mentioned, my questions were of the rhetorical variety. I've known Rob for several years and his honesty and responsiveness and business standards have been above reproach. What is particularly interesting to me is how far ahead of the curve he was with many of these troubling auction issues. And with that in mind, I become a bit incredulous when Leon seems to view Rob and REA disfavorably (at least with regard to business practices) yet backs Mastro/Legendary so resolutely. You'd think my questions would be answered in the reverse. |
#67
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Legendary Auctions. Should I call the police on them about having possible stolen material
Posted By: Sean C
Can anyone confirm whether the old Mastro consignment contract allowed for consigned items to be transfered to another auction house? Let's try to keep the pot shots at Mastro / Legendary to a minimum until this central question is answered. |
#68
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Legendary Auctions. Should I call the police on them about having possible stolen material
Posted By: Dan Bretta
Aaron, Leon and Rob have worked out their differences and are amicable. Please don't dredge up stuff that was solved more than a year ago. |
#69
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Legendary Auctions. Should I call the police on them about having possible stolen material
Posted By: Aaron M.
Jim, it's been my experience in my admittedly limited years in relation to some of the more veteran collectors here on N54, that Rob Lifson and his REA have really been the only auction house always willing to answer these questions -- and what Rob does that really sets him apart is that he anticipates these questions and answers them and takes action before they become issues. Other auction houses just don't seem to be able to view a particular issue and know what an ethical response should be. Rob, meanwhile, was instituting policies of transparency and honesty before anyone was really asking him to. |
#70
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Legendary Auctions. Should I call the police on them about having possible stolen material
Posted By: Aaron M.
Are you sure Dan? |
#71
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Legendary Auctions. Should I call the police on them about having possible stolen material
Posted By: Aaron M.
G.H. I am listening and am open-minded. Anyone want to elaborate on poor dealings with Rob, the floor is yours. |
#72
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Legendary Auctions. Should I call the police on them about having possible stolen material
Posted By: Anonymous
Aaron, |
#73
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Legendary Auctions. Should I call the police on them about having possible stolen material
Posted By: Aaron M.
I'm listening. |
#74
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Legendary Auctions. Should I call the police on them about having possible stolen material
Posted By: marty q
aaron- my bad, sorry pal..i got tunnel vision for a moment, i couldnt understand why somebody would jump on rob? because you didnt....again sorry for "my" confusion....now that i read it again it makes sense, and also a stern point that i think you were after. |
#75
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Legendary Auctions. Should I call the police on them about having possible stolen material
Posted By: Larry P.
I guess I agree with Jeff. I will still be bidding in the Legendary auction because they have stuff I want. I'm sure there are a lot of shady dealings in the hobby, as there are in many other aspects of life, but I prefer to withhold judging others until I see stronger evidence. With regard to the original question in the post, I don't see it as Legendary stealing your stuff, but maybe my view is too simplistic. |
#76
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Legendary Auctions. Should I call the police on them about having possible stolen material
Posted By: Aaron M.
Just to be clear, I'm not saying anyone shouldn't bid with Legendary. |
#77
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Legendary Auctions. Should I call the police on them about having possible stolen material
Posted By: Steve
I'd say more often than not when a prominent dealer or a representative from a major auction house -- who's not already a regular poster on the board -- makes an appearance, he is attacked in a pretty short time. I don't blame them at all for staying away. |
#78
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Legendary Auctions. Should I call the police on them about having possible stolen material
Posted By: Jay
While the version of the Mastro Master Consignment Agreement that I have appears silent on the specific issue of reassignment of auction lots, it does state the following: |
#79
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Legendary Auctions. Should I call the police on them about having possible stolen material
Posted By: Alan
This thread reminds me of the Seinfeld episode where George needs an electrician to keep the Pac Man machine running while they move it. Kramer says he is not a friend of the electrician and doesn't like him, but he is the best electrician around. |
#80
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Legendary Auctions. Should I call the police on them about having possible stolen material
Posted By: Jodi Birkholm
Slippery Pete? |
#81
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Legendary Auctions. Should I call the police on them about having possible stolen material
Posted By: Peter_Spaeth
In my view, if there is no express contractual provision for transfer consigned material to another auctioneer, then it would be a breach to do so. I think it would be difficult to argue that the consignor impliedly agreed to the transfer, because for the reasons Aaron articulated the consignor might well prefer to get the item back. That said, do we know for sure that Legendary didn't contact the consignors and get permission? |
#82
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Legendary Auctions. Should I call the police on them about having possible stolen material
Posted By: Jay
Peter--I had nothing on consignment for the auction so I don't know. Possibly someone like JC could comment. Also, if this assignment was a breach of contract, how would the agreeved party establish damages? |
#83
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Legendary Auctions. Should I call the police on them about having possible stolen material
Posted By: Peter_Spaeth
I am speculating that a difficulty for Legendary may be that they simultaneously want to be a brand new company and the close successor to Mastro. A fine line to walk, perhaps. |
#84
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Legendary Auctions. Should I call the police on them about having possible stolen material
Posted By: Aaron M.
Jay, you are correct in that language you quoted does NOT allow for Mastro to assign, transfer or otherwise sell their consignments to a third-party. |
#85
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Legendary Auctions. Should I call the police on them about having possible stolen material
Posted By: Aaron M.
Jay, you could establish damages by siting past examples of previous sales figures for similar items if the item in question fared significantly worse with Legendary. The damages could be the difference in price. Damages could also stem from the stress of having the items essentially misappropriated without consent. It's interesting, but again, I wonder if Doug hasn't already considered this. Maybe he thinks that the damages wouldn't be significant enough for people to actually sue him over. Or maybe he thinks he'll cut deals with unhappy consignors (either discount fees on this auction or offer a break for future auctions) to help ease the pain. |
#86
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Legendary Auctions. Should I call the police on them about having possible stolen material
Posted By: boxingcardman
On the assignment of the consignment agreement. While the agreement itself is silent on the issue, as has been pointed out, it repeatedly uses the term "we" in allocating responsibilities to Mastro. "We" is specifically defined in paragraph 1 as "MastroNet, Inc." As I read things, therefore, MastroNet, Inc. is given the right to sell the item. Not Mastronet, Inc. or its assignee. Now, that said, I don't know IL law; it is possible that IL law allows a contract to be assigned unless it is expressly forbidden by the contract. An IL attorney would have to answer that one. |
#87
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Legendary Auctions. Should I call the police on them about having possible stolen material
Posted By: Aaron M.
Jim Clarke, I'm curious -- what was Doug's explanation for your material ending up in his Legendary auction without your consent or even the existence of a consignment agreement? Have you been paid yet for previous consignments? |
#88
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Legendary Auctions. Should I call the police on them about having possible stolen material
Posted By: CoreyRS.hanus
While the legal issues here are interesting, as a practical matter (except for the most high-ticket items) it seems hard to imagine the damages could ever be great enough to justify the expense and aggravation of a civil action. After all, this is a nationally-distributed auction with a significant website and published catalog with a distribution list that is probably substantially similar to (or even better than) most of their competitors'. Also, I wonder for those contemplating suing WHO DID NOT REQUEST THEIR CONSIGNMENTS BE RETURNED could have any potential damage award be reduced/eliminated for failure to mitigate. |
#89
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Legendary Auctions. Should I call the police on them about having possible stolen material
Posted By: leon
I have no issue with you stating your opinions just like anyone else that is NOT anonymous. I won't allow anonymous posts as is the general rule. A couple quick points though. I don't see me going back and forth with Doug to get your questions answered. I posted his cell phone number on this board so anyone is free to call him. BTW, that phone number, or any phone number, won't be allowed to be posted on this board unless we are absolutely positive it is ok with whomever is having their number posted. Generally speaking we really shouldn't be posting phone numbers on the board. My cell is 214-282-4943.....I never have an issue with someone posting their own #. |
#90
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Legendary Auctions. Should I call the police on them about having possible stolen material
Posted By: barrysloate
Aaron- I have a question: |
#91
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Legendary Auctions. Should I call the police on them about having possible stolen material
Posted By: Aaron M.
"Aaron- I have a question: |
#92
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Legendary Auctions. Should I call the police on them about having possible stolen material
Posted By: barrysloate
Aaron- those are fair points but in the end I doubt there will be any perceptible difference in prices realized. If there is a cloud over the new Legendary brand then the same cloud hung over Mastro, so the issue would not be the transfer of lots from one to the other. |
#93
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Legendary Auctions. Should I call the police on them about having possible stolen material
Posted By: Dan Bretta
In the end it's about the "need to have" which afflicts a strong majority of us. I doubt Legendary is affected one way or another. |
#94
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Legendary Auctions. Should I call the police on them about having possible stolen material
Posted By: Peter_Spaeth
I agree with those who have opined they would be very speculative and difficult to prove. Nonetheless, IF the contract does not allow transfer of consigned material without consent, and IF in fact Legedndary did not obtain consent, it does raise at least an ethical question. |
#95
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Legendary Auctions. Should I call the police on them about having possible stolen material
Posted By: Sean C
Only in this hobby can: |
#96
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Legendary Auctions. Should I call the police on them about having possible stolen material
Posted By: JDRUM
Sean, |
#97
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Legendary Auctions. Should I call the police on them about having possible stolen material
Posted By: Wesley
Hi Peter S, |
#98
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Legendary Auctions. Should I call the police on them about having possible stolen material
Posted By: Sean C
If I were in your situation, then I would be contacting the local police dept. or possibly the FBI (since they are already investigating what was Mastro), if nothing else for the principal of it. |
#99
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Legendary Auctions. Should I call the police on them about having possible stolen material
Posted By: Peter_Spaeth
I think that would suffice for implied consent. That said, it appears to have been a cynical gesture as objections (yours, at least) appear to have been wilfully ignored. An interesting way to start a "new" business. |
#100
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Legendary Auctions. Should I call the police on them about having possible stolen material
Posted By: Peter_Spaeth
Did Doug give an explanation to you? |
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