Ted Z - Chase, Matty, and Johnson were on the same printing sheet

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Posted By: Scot Reader

Dave,

What Ted said.

Your Sheckard (Glove Shows) is not a 350/460 subject, but a 460-only subject. You will not find him with any 350 series back, for example, Piedmont 350, Sweet Caporal 350, Sovereign 350, etc. However, you WILL find him with Piedmont 460/25, Sweet Caporal 460/25 and /30, Sovereign 460, etc.

Scot

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Posted By: Pennsylvania Ted

I saw the two images when Jim 1st posted....but, only the back image has been visible,
since some time yesterday.

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Posted By: MVSNYC

ted- that's weird, it is up for me...i can assure you it looks like the matching back, there is a diagonal crease that mirrors the front. it must be a pre-production printer's proof or scrap...

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

I'm with Ted...

I see a tiny little image box that shows when there should be an image but isn't, and to the right of that little box is the card back. I've got "Done" in the lower left corner of my Firefox browser... I'm not getting that front either.

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Posted By: MVSNYC

ok, my dad's computer upstairs has windows xp, it shows BOTH scans...

his new computer downstairs, is a dell with vista, that only shows the BACK scan...weird...

Leon can you explain?

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Posted By: JimB

Even my computer does not show the front now, though it did a couple of days ago. I added another image of the front.
JimB

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Posted By: MVSNYC

works now for me on vista with your new scan...

ted-take a look-see

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Posted By: Mike Ellis

Sorry that I have not responded earlier (I have been working on a project and not visiting the forum as I usually do). I purchased the Johnson with the 350/460, factory 30 back from Jim B. However, I am not able to scan right now. The front and back are as Jim has presented.
I also have a Matty dark cap printing error with a 350/460, factory 30 back (apparently not the one posted by Denny) and an Elberfield printing error 350/460 factory 30 back.
In addition I have a Knight (bat)that is hand cut and has a Piedmont back.

Mike Ellis

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Posted By: Pennsylvania Ted

I think I can say THANKS from all of us on this Thread for your post. Scans are not necessary.

This Johnson's (front/back combination) contradicts everything we know regarding the T206 backs as
a function of the different Series.

So, we'll have to go back to the drawing-board to figure out this anamoly.

The Matty you mentioned, normally can be found with the Sweet Cap 460, Fac #30 back....and with at
least another 18 different backs....as it is a T206 "super-print".

TED Z

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Posted By: Scot Reader

Mike's Elberfeld (presumably Glove Low) print error with SC 460/30 would also be anomolous.

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Posted By: Mike Ellis

Scot, The Elberfield is a glove low. I purchased it in the April 2006 Lipset auction. A scan may still be available there.
Ted, As a long time and old collector (64 years old) I appreciate your knowledge. (I have already let Scot know how much I appreciated his work).
Mike

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Posted By: Clint

Although I don't collect these cards I find the discussions very interesting. I don't know if this card fits what your'e looking for but this was in the 2000 Lipset auction.

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Posted By: Scot Reader

Could it be that the Johnson (Pitching) and Elberfeld (Glove Low) print errors, both of which have the Sweet Cap 460/30 back and neither of which are possible in regular issue with that back, might have been cut from the same sheet?

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

That Dessau card above looks whopsided, or miscut, to me. Makes me think that these near monochrome cards, or at least the Dessau, may will have not been put it cigarette packages, but that a printer might have taken home the errant sheet and cut it up at home. Thanks for posting that listing.

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Posted By: MVSNYC

these are very cool...i should have bid the chase higher Joe D.

they all seem to be handcut, printer's scraps...(ted & scot) i think you guys already had it all figured out, don't let these printer's scraps (most likely pre-production samples) get you guys frusterated, your work on the monster has been so beneficial and important. i think your theories still hold water, these are most likely pre-production.

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Posted By: Brian Weisner

Hi Guys,
The "Yellow and Brown" only cards were all printer scrap that were never inserted into packs. I have a list of the ones I have seen, along with scans and descriptions from old catalogs.

Here is a list of the Sweet Cap 460/30 cards:
1. Baker
2. Bender No trees
3. Chase Black Cap
4. Davis Phil
5. Doolan batting
6. Downey Batting
7. Elberfeld fielding
8. Evers Batting
9. Griffith Batting
10. Johnson Pitching
11. Joss Pitching
12. Kleinow Boston Catch
13. Matty Dark Cap
14. Murphy Batting
15. O'Leary Hands on knees
16. Rucker Throwing
17. Seymour throwing
18. Snodgrass Catching
19. Stahl Glove shows
20. Street catching
21. Young throwing
22. Chase Port Blue(Thanks for the reminder Joe?

5 of these sold in David Festberg auction Oct 8, 1998
1. Chase
2. Griffith
3. Bender
4. Kleinow
5. Young

I will post more when I have a chance.

Gotta go Brian

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Posted By: Joe D.

in recent REA auction.

love the list btw, great stuff.

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Posted By: Brian Weisner

Here are a few pictures:

1. Ron Oser Auction August 26, 2000



2. Lipset April 2006





I'll add more later. Be well Brian

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Posted By: Scot Reader

Brian,

Thanks for tracking this all of these years. As you know, all of these subjects are possible in regular issue in Sweet Cap 460/25. Following up on Joe's theory, is it possible these printer's scrap cards were all cut from the same sheet, which was SUPPOSED to be preprinted with the Sweet Cap 460/25 back, and discarded as printer's scrap when it was discovered that the sheet was preprinted with the Sweet Cap 460/30 back? If so, it might be possible to at least partially reconstruct a 350/460 sheet ....

Scot

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Posted By: Brian Weisner

Hi Guys,
Sorry it took so long, but here are the pictures of the whole lot..