Anyone watching probstein auctions

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by moeson

I have won several cards from Greg Morris and have not had any issues.

who the hell is Greg Morris??

[moeson]

See post 44 above. He's a major card dealer from way back who does set breaks on Ebay.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

who the hell is Greg Morris??

He played Barney on the original and awesome Mission Impossible TV series....

[cammb]

Originally Posted by glynparson

A laugh ? How it is well documented that many early sgc graded cards during the merkle era were not judged harshly at all in fact when I worked at sgc it was not a guarantee that cards graded during the merkle regime would be regraded with the same grade as many were outside the tolerance not sure exactly what you meant but your wrong if you were disagreeing with me. It is honestly not just merkle era grades either as it is often discussed throughout the industry how sgc is not as strict on centering.It is well within the 70-30 PSA says it can be and still get an 8 ( I agree you seldom see a 70-30 card in an 8): PSA NM-MT 8 is a super high-end card that appears Mint 9 at first glance, but upon closer inspection, the card can exhibit the following: a very slight wax stain on reverse, slightest fraying at one or two corners, a minor printing imperfection, and/or slightly off-white borders. Centering must be approximately 65/35 to 70/30 or better on the front and 90/10 or better on the reverse.

I don't when the "Merkle era" was nor do I care. I am talking about today's grading. I don' buy the holder, but the card. My experience leads me to SGC. I have been burned too many times by the sub standard grading at PSA. I intentionally buy PSA cards only to break them out and resubmit to SGC where they usually receive at least half grade lower. Again that's my experience.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by cammb

I don't when the "Merkle era" was nor do I care. I am talking about today's grading. I don' buy the holder, but the card. My experience leads me to SGC. I have been burned too many times by the sub standard grading at PSA. I intentionally buy PSA cards only to break them out and resubmit to SGC where they usually receive at least half grade lower. Again that's my experience.

I completely disagree. In my opinion PSA is much stricter these days.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by cammb

I don't when the "Merkle era" was nor do I care. I am talking about today's grading. I don' buy the holder, but the card. My experience leads me to SGC. I have been burned too many times by the sub standard grading at PSA. I intentionally buy PSA cards only to break them out and resubmit to SGC where they usually receive at least half grade lower. Again that's my experience.

That doesn't seem like an economically sound strategy as SGC cards typically sell at substantially lower prices than the same card in an equivalent PSA holder.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I completely disagree. In my opinion PSA is much stricter these days.

It really depends on the "problem" with the card. They grade cards very differently.

I say problem because that is really all they do is point out the problems on with a card.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bnorth

It really depends on the "problem" with the card. They grade cards very differently.

I say problem because that is really all they do is point out the problems on with a card.

Fair enough but I was talking about corner wear and centering. There are numerous SGC 8s that would get 7s and SGC 7s that would get 6s; at those grades the problems are corners and centering.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Why anyone would send their cards to a company that cant tell the difference between Karl Malden and Karl Malone is beyond me. Thats just plain dumb!

[Rookiemonster]

Before i joined this forum I had no idea that other collectors did not see bgs, psa , sgc in the same light as collectors I know .l I would never switch my cards from BGS or psa to SGC . The price for a psa and sgc card in the same grade can be staggering . Let along to get a lower grade from sgc .

[GregMitch34]

Until recently, I tended to favor buying SGC cards--since the look is so important for me. But the pricing differential with PSA has only grown and so now I've given up. I will still buy SGC for pre-1900 cards and a few scattered others but otherwise it makes no sense at all, sorry to say. People argue here on and on about which company is stricter, or more fair, or has better service, etc., but it seems that the people have spoken--for whatever reason, they see PSA grades as far more credible, right or wrong.

Although always interesting to ask: exactly WHY?

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by GregMitch34

Until recently, I tended to favor buying SGC cards--since the look is so important for me. But the pricing differential with PSA has only grown and so now I've given up. I will still buy SGC for pre-1900 cards and a few scattered others but otherwise it makes no sense at all, sorry to say. People argue here on and on about which company is stricter, or more fair, or has better service, etc., but it seems that the people have spoken--for whatever reason, they see PSA grades as far more credible, right or wrong.

Although always interesting to ask: exactly WHY?

Two reasons of many -
1-Because they advertise like crazy and have gotten much free hype in and out of the hobby.
2-Many people are sheep.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Two reasons of many -
1-Because they advertise like crazy and have gotten much free hype in and out of the hobby.
2-Many people are sheep.

Richard- What exactly are you saying?

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Richard- What exactly are you saying?

Seems crystal clear!

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Seems crystal clear!

How so? Because PSA cards bring a premium over SGC??

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Seems crystal clear!

delete...beating a dead horse

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Richard- What exactly are you saying?

LOL.....this debate is almost as old as "what came first - the chicken or the egg". I'm speaking tongue in cheek of course, but....

The above poster is right. PSA advertises like crazy, and people are sheep. SGC does a very honorable job of grading cards and I love the way they look in the cases.

That being said, when it comes time to sell, they get NOWHERE near the prices of PSA. If someone is selling a card in SGC and they see it selling for a fraction of the PSA counterpart, of course they aren't going to want to sell any more SGC's. Now, if the SGC buyers would SUPPORT the .99 cent auctions on Ebay of SGC cards and help drive the prices up to even close of what the PSA cards are..........that hasn't happened so far though.

[iowadoc77]

I am a huge SGC fan...
As a COLLECTOR
I think the cards look much better in their holders.
As for premium pricing, I know it is not there for SGC but that doesn't bother me.
I have had 2 cards in PSA holders that I attempted to get crossed to SGC and they can back as trimmed. They were National Chicle football cards and no, I do not have scans. I feel the standards are strict at SGC except, of course, on centering. But that has been adequately discussed

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Why anyone would send their cards to a company that cant tell the difference between Karl Malden and Karl Malone is beyond me. Thats just plain dumb!

I can't get the thought of a Karl Malden basketball card out of my head now.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by biggsdaddycool

Every time I happen to click a card I like and see Probstein or PWCC, I just turn and walk away.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I fully admit if someone has what I want, I am a buyer. I have bought from both and due to the well known issues I will only do it with a sniping service and just use a price point I feel is fair and never feel bad about an outbid.

As they get crazy prices, I rarely win from them. However, they do pack and ship well.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by GregMitch34

Until recently, I tended to favor buying SGC cards--since the look is so important for me. But the pricing differential with PSA has only grown and so now I've given up. I will still buy SGC for pre-1900 cards and a few scattered others but otherwise it makes no sense at all, sorry to say. People argue here on and on about which company is stricter, or more fair, or has better service, etc., but it seems that the people have spoken--for whatever reason, they see PSA grades as far more credible, right or wrong.

Although always interesting to ask: exactly WHY?

I havent seen a 'set break' auction on ebay with 95% of the cards being SGC in a long time post war...probably not even prewar either but i dont follow that end as much...it seems every week PWCC has a 'set break' PSA auction..

IF SGC would fo been the one to grade those Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb backs that could of helped them with their prewar niche everyone argues with me about when i say PSA is the way to go

[iowadoc77]

Originally Posted by JustinD

I fully admit if someone has what I want, I am a buyer. I have bought from both and due to the well known issues I will only do it with a sniping service and just use a price point I feel is fair and never feel bad about an outbid.

As they get crazy prices, I rarely win from them. However, they do pack and ship well.

So at least they have that last part going for them (shipping and packing) which is nice
I have bought from both but certainly know my limits bidding heading into it

[cammb]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

That doesn't seem like an economically sound strategy as SGC cards typically sell at substantially lower prices than the same card in an equivalent PSA holder.

There is no strategy. There happens to be many more psa commons that I need than sgc. I collect sgc 80 or better. I have tried numerous times , without much success, to crossover to sgc and always being met with "does not minimum grade requested". So I buy psa one grade higher.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by cammb

There is no strategy. There happens to be many more psa commons that I need than sgc. I collect sgc 80 or better. I have tried numerous times , without much success, to crossover to sgc and always being met with "does not minimum grade requested". So I buy psa one grade higher.

Fair enough of you're happy with what you end up with that is all that matters. For the cards I collect if I paid the PSA price and sent it to SGC for a 1/2 point deduction, or even the same grade, I would take a big hit.

[Rookiemonster]

These auctions end tonight ! Can't wait to see were some of these end . The 1951 Mays is already over 46,000

[1952boyntoncollector]

54' topps Mays psa 9 at 10k now as well...

the 1954s psa 8+s have really taken off

[Rookiemonster]

For anybody who didn't watch . The willie Mays rookie went for 51,875 .

But a psa 10 1959 Willie Mays sold for 75,375 😵

[Pilot172000]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Two reasons of many -
1-Because they advertise like crazy and have gotten much free hype in and out of the hobby.
2-Many people are sheep.

Before I jumped into this hobby several years ago I did diligent research and read tons of threads on this board about SGC vs. PSA. I decided to go with SGC as they seemed to be the PRe-War favorite at the time. The first graded card I ever had was a Willie Mays and the PSA holder seemed flimsy. I bought strictly SGC cards until one day slipping up and purchasing a Nap Lajoie Portrait in a PSA case. It was love at first site. I have bought mostly PSA since and am seriouly considering moving my SGC cards to PSA holders for conformity. I still think that SGC is a better grader and their cases are rock solid, but are bulky, heavy and take up a lot more space than the PSA cards. Space is finite at my house with three boys and another child on the way. I choose PSA for more practical purposes and find both companies to be very good at what they do. I have had good experiences with both and wouldnt balk at buying a SGC card if it was the right card.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Pilot172000

Before I jumped into this hobby several years ago I did diligent research and read tons of threads on this board about SGC vs. PSA. I decided to go with SGC as they seemed to be the PRe-War favorite at the time. The first graded card I ever had was a Willie Mays and the PSA holder seemed flimsy. I bought strictly SGC cards until one day slipping up and purchasing a Nap Lajoie Portrait in a PSA case. It was love at first site. I have bought mostly PSA since and am seriouly considering moving my SGC cards to PSA holders for conformity. I still think that SGC is a better grader and their cases are rock solid, but are bulky, heavy and take up a lot more space than the PSA cards. Space is finite at my house with three boys and another child on the way. I choose PSA for more practical purposes and find both companies to be very good at what they do. I have had good experiences with both and wouldnt balk at buying a SGC card if it was the right card.

So it stands to reason that you would buy a PSA if it wasnt the right card...

[Pilot172000]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

So it stands to reason that you would buy a PSA if it wasnt the right card...

That's false logic. Saying that I would do one thing does not imply I would do another. I would buy an SGC graded card if it was the right card, meaning that if it was what I was looking for or a good value. You can always send it to PSA to have it graded there if you want the uniformity.

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

PWCC may not be the cheapest at the end of the day every time but I've gotten some nice items at fiar prices. A number of times. Just sayin.

Absolutely +1!

Best wishes to all,

Larry

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Rookiemonster

For anybody who didn't watch . The willie Mays rookie went for 51,875 .

But a psa 10 1959 Willie Mays sold for 75,375 😵

I wouldn't have guessed that much for the 59. But if there's only 1 in the world it's pretty hard to set a price. Personally I'd rather have his rookie in an 8 and save the 23k difference for something else

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by glynparson

looks within the centering parameters for an 8 to me. Not sure where some think it needs to be a 6 based on its centering. Agree its not perfectly centered but i have seen much worse (centering) especially in sgc holders.

+1 on this.

Regards,

Larry

[Rookiemonster]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I wouldn't have guessed that much for the 59. But if there's only 1 in the world it's pretty hard to set a price. Personally I'd rather have his rookie in an 8 and save the 23k difference for something else

Yeah, for sure the rookie is the way to go! The managers dream was a bit surprising to me as well. I was just making a assumption here. Maybe the 59 Mays was getting bids from set collector. If there is only one at gem mint ten then that's a one up on the next guy.

[Dpeck100]

The spread from the pack is the largest I have ever seen on EBAY. A 60k jump with the final two snipes. WOW that is insane. I bet the other bidders watching at the end were like WTF just happened. Haha.

[jimjim]

Not like this is new news, but these auctions really get me mad with all of the shill bidding. I am watching 3 identical items on ebay. They are all PSA. I mean they are identical. They all close within 3 days of each other. Two of them are currently at around $10 and the one being sold by probstein is already at $30. The current high bidder has 400 bids this month and over 50% are with Probstein. Really, ebay!? Give me a break!!!

[Leon]

Have won things from Probstein recently and been happy. Also lost some but wasn't very unhappy. No doubt there is shilling going on on ebay but I am not sure the largest sellers can control it very well. Friends of friends and all.....

[xplainer]

Probstein sells tons of cards. Of course they can't "police" it all. That is their alibi.

All the ingredients are there for shilling to happen.

Probstein makes more $.
eBay makes more $.
The seller makes more $.
Buyer loses $.

Not that all are shilled, but this is the perfect business model for this stuff to happen.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by jimjim

Not like this is new news, but these auctions really get me mad with all of the shill bidding. I am watching 3 identical items on ebay. They are all PSA. I mean they are identical. They all close within 3 days of each other. Two of them are currently at around $10 and the one being sold by probstein is already at $30. The current high bidder has 400 bids this month and over 50% are with Probstein. Really, ebay!? Give me a break!!!

Then why don't you focus on the $10 cards and ignore the $30 cards? If more people did that, some of the smaller sellers might be more willing to auction off cards instead of seeing their items sell for peanuts. I know I fit into that category......just gets old seeing their SGC 3's sell for as much as my PSA 5's.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Then why don't you focus on the $10 cards and ignore the $30 cards? If more people did that, some of the smaller sellers might be more willing to auction off cards instead of seeing their items sell for peanuts. I know I fit into that category......just gets old seeing their SGC 3's sell for as much as my PSA 5's.

Put a great looking card up and do everything right and it won't go for peanuts. Too many people looking for great cards to let them go for nothing, imo....

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by Leon

Put a great looking card up and do everything right and it won't go for peanuts. Too many people looking for great cards to let them go for nothing, imo....

+1

[bobbyw8469]

I can only go by experience.

[jimjim]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Then why don't you focus on the $10 cards and ignore the $30 cards? If more people did that, some of the smaller sellers might be more willing to auction off cards instead of seeing their items sell for peanuts. I know I fit into that category......just gets old seeing their SGC 3's sell for as much as my PSA 5's.

I do ignore Probstein items. Actually, I have never even bid on a Probstein auction. I refuse to do business with him. But that is just me. I just was doing a search and I came across this issue, which is why I posted.