Three Presidents Coming to Dinner on Thursday

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Posted By: John S

They may been mentioned already but listening to them was about as anti-social as an 8th grader could get...the Dead Milkmen and the Meatmen.

Can't believe I forgot the Butthole Surfers, they sold out a little at the end.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Dan Bretta- you are my hero! Thank you so much for that clip- my wife and I just watched it and we were in awe. What memories come flooding back from 40 years ago! (I wish I knew how to use youtube- I'm a computer idiot).

And BcD- what a wonderful song that is- it was a theme from the film "Monterey Pop", the best movie to ever document the music and spirit of the 60's. But there are no pictures of Scott MacKenzie in it, and I think that is the first time I saw him.

What a treat to wake up to those two great songs! Thanks guys.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Dan, no relation to Alan.

As for the Cramps -- I have that album on cassette!

And how can anyone put the Clash on a list and not put them first?????

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

I'll put The Clash on my list, but not ahead of The Ramones:

Off the top of my head, I'm sure I'm missing somebody important:

1) The Ramones
2) The Clash
3) Sex Pistols
4) Black Flag
5) Dead Kennedys
6) Sonic Youth
7) Husker Du
8) Bad Brains
9) Patty Smith
10) The Damned
11) Buzzcocks
12) Soft Boys
13) Replacements (nothing after 1987)
14) Plasmatics
15) The Misfits
16) Television
17) X
18) MC5
19) The Stooges
20) The Circle Jerks

With a nod and a wave to the Velvet Underground, the New York Dolls and The Who.

After the meeting can we all go to CBs and protest?

-Al

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Posted By: barrysloate

I agree- the Clash is one of the most important bands in rock history. RIP Joe Strummer.

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Posted By: Bruce

Sorry to keep this off topic, but its good to see some old punkers like myself. I agree that the Clash is #1. Fortunately, I was able to see them a few times before Mick Jones left. Best shows I ever saw. Though here in DC in the early 80's we were admittedly a bit snobby about our local bands like Minor Threat, Scream, Bad Brains etc..

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

Come on, guys. How can you put The Clash in front of The Ramones?

That's like putting Willie Mays ahead of Babe Ruth! Mays was great, great, great, but the Babe changed the whole game!

-Al

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Posted By: barrysloate

Al- let's analyze:

Ramones
1) I Want to be Sedated
2) Rock n Roll High School

The Clash
1) London Calling
2) Rock the Casbah

Four great songs...edge goes to the Clash. Besides, not much longevity in the Ramones- they are just about all dead. Didn't they take their vitamins and eat their green vegetables?

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Posted By: Bruce MacPherson

Barry, no offense, but IMO you probably picked two of the worst Ramones songs they recorded.

Al, the Ramones are in the top two, but I would liken it to Cobb/Ruth. Cobb amazed everyone with his style of play, until Ruth came along with a different, more powerful style. BTW, Johnny Ramone used to hang out in the audience before shows. He was a very nice guy to talk to. I dont think you could say that about any Clash members.

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Posted By: judson hamlin

Barry- One summer when we were at Wildwood Crest, the Ramones were at Art Stock's Playpen and ate at the same place we did. There were no vegetables harmed in the dinner that I saw.
And yes, the Clash wins the head to head. Plus they get bonus points for Joe Strummer & the Mescaleros (I miss Wetlands) and Mick Jones' work with Big Audio Dynamite.

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Posted By: barrysloate

I don't know too many other of their songs, but "sedated" is great- which ones do you like better? (ever see the Ramones appearance on an episode of "The Simpsons" singing Happy Birthday to Mr. Burns- it was a riot).

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

Hi Barry:

First of all, punk rock guys are SUPPOSED to be dead. One, two albums, that's it.

This is not Crosby, Stills and Nash, making crappier and crappier albums until they're in their 80s. This is PUNK ROCK, man! These guys are supposed to make one, two records, and then have some cataclysmic event that causes them to stop making records.

And most of the dead guys died BECAUSE they took their "vitamins". And what could be more punk than that?

I give big props to The Clash. Love 'em. But The Ramones made it all possible.

Plus, Joey Ramone was uglier than all the guys in The Clash combined.

-Al

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Posted By: Alan

From a music encyopedia:

"From their earliest days as a band, the Clash stood apart from their punk peers with their musicianship, as well as their lyrics; the passionate, left wing political idealism in the lyrics of frontmen Joe Strummer and Mick Jones contrasted with the anarchic nihilism of the Sex Pistols and the basic simplicity of the Ramones. Although they were a major success in the UK from the release of their first album in 1977, they did not become popular in the US until 1980."


I'm definately going to see some live music while I am in Cleveland at the National. Maybe even some punk rock.

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Posted By: judson hamlin

There are some great clips (musically) of the Clash at the Capitol Theatre in Passaic in 1980- The video isn't 1st rate, but just listen. Search "Clash Capitol"

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

Boy, I forgot all about the Capitol Theater.

-Al

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Posted By: barrysloate

Al- I know, punkers should die young. Live fast, play hard. And I know the "vitamins" they took. And CSN&Y, as well as the Stones, should pack it in. Enough is enough. I'd rather remember them when they were young. That is one advantage Jimi Hendrix and Janis Joplin had. We only knew them in their prime.
And the Ramones were trailblazers, no doubt about it.

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Posted By: judson hamlin

was a great venue. Oddest concert I saw there (and one of the best) was an MTV sponsored show with Run-DMC, 24 Karat Soul (an a cappella group) and the headliners, Lou Reed and Jim Carroll. You can imagine the mix in the crowd- as I said- odd.

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Posted By: Griffin's

<<<<Watch the documentry Punk:Attitude. It's the only show I've ever seen that actually captures what punk was really about in the 70s and 80s.>>>

Jay- You didn't like The Decline of Western Civilization?

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Posted By: T206Collector

I'll take Never Mind the Bollocks any day over anything the Ramones or Clash put out. I really like the Clash, but I can't hardly listen to the Ramones.

RIP Sid & Nancy

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Posted By: Neal Kane

Ramones and the Clash as well ...

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Posted By: Joe Tocco

Ranked by whose music I actually like to listen to, not by importance:
1. Joy Division
2. Bad Religion
3. Ramones
4. Clash

All were influential in their own way, but amongst punk nothing gives me goosebumps like Joy Division's "Atmosphere," and nothing rocks quite like Bad Religion's entire "Generator" album.

Joe

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Posted By: Mike

If anyone here ever saw the MC 5 live, you'd not even mention any other punk bands. The toughest, the loudest, and done with soul. And unlike many others mentioned here, they could actually play..Detroits finest......the MC 5. Long may they live. In an interview, even Iggy said they were the greatest ever. "kick out the jams &#_)!*(> !!!!

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Posted By: Chris Counts

I saw the Clash the last time they performed. They literally broke up on stage after Joe and Mick went on an anti-Ronald Reagan rant. It was at a big festival out in the California desert, and the crowd was more metal heads than anything (they were there to see Van Halen, I think). The fans didn't appreciate their politics and pretty much rioted ... it was the craziest thing I ever saw ...

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Posted By: T206Collector

I love Joy Division, too, but I hardly think they qualify as punk -- they were the beginning of New Wave, even if they were inspired by seeing the Sex Pistols live. And New Order absolutely rule...

If you like Joy Division, you should know that Anton Corbijn (DM and U2 photographer) is putting the finishing touches on his movie "Control" about the life/death of Ian Curtis. And, of course, there's 24 Hour Party people, which is also a must see movie about JD.

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Posted By: Rich Klein

Was a big time baseball card collector, when I was in college in the late 70's-early 80's; I used to see him at all the major NY area shows.

Rich

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Posted By: Chad

No one's mentioned Fugazi?

I have albums of a lot of the stuff mentioned, but I listen to the Clash and Social Distortion most of all. And nobody's mentioned that Blondie came out of the NYC punk scene. Punk contains multitudes.

--Chad

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

Fugazi! Blondie! Talking Heads!

Three big ones I forgot. That's what happens when you go off the top of your head.

Somehow I don't think this is what Jim intended with this thread. Sorry, Jim. I'll be better at the meeting, I promise. I'll only talk about jazz.

-Al

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Posted By: scott brockelman

that there is more interest in Punk rock than solving the hobbies greatest mysteries.

Perhaps the meetings theme should be changed for greater participation.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Ok, I'm going to say this one last time and please take this as gospel because it is 100 percent accurate:

The Clash is first on any of these lists, plain and simple. Yes, the Ramones came before...but if you go by that then you'd have to include the Velvet Underground which was probably the most influential band not just in the area of Punk but Metal as well (though the Ramones certainly started the scene in NYC). Indeed, the Velvet Underground and Nico might be the greatest album of all time (I named a dog Nico in reverence). As luck will have it, I had a friend who was close with Laurie Anderson and arranged a dinner for me with Lou and Laurie in NYC a few years back. I'm not ashamed to say that it was one of the greatest nights of my life. To be able to ask Lou question after question about lyrics, albums, concerts, artists was to die for. He was completely open, completely cool and answered every single sycophantic question I could muster. Example: favorite solo album: Magic and Loss. We ended the night smoking cigars and Lou showed me how to properly dump my ashes. As for the Clash, as I was about to pick the jury on the biggest case of my life I sat in court with Guns of Brixton blasting in my ears. I swear I had tears in my eyes after listening to that song and getting ready for battle. Barry, Combat Rock, which contains "Rock the Casbah" was, incidentally, the end of the Clash as we know it. While there were some great commercial songs on that album you could see that the band was being ripped apart by the Jones-Strummer artistic differences. Also, one Clash footnote: Elvis Costello wrote "Watching the Detectives" after listening to the Clash's first album for 24 hours straight.

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Posted By: Rich Klein

Now all we need is a couple of things

1) A discussion of the best restaurant in NY to discuss the punk scene and have a nice dinner. I'll take any and all suggestions

2) How many of us would let our kids (if we have them) listen to a similar message today

Rich

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Posted By: Mike

One last comment on the music thread. Blondie in the same class as MC 5 ?? That's like comparing Barry Manilow to Robert Plant. Come on now........

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Posted By: barrysloate

Jeff- great story about Lou Reed, and the Velvet Underground is a much underappreciated band today. All my record buying was pretty much in the 60's, so the music I know from the 70's on up is limited to what they play on the classic rock stations, which is of course mostly hits only and very repetitive. One day I will allow myself the pleasure of hearing many of the great songs that have eluded me.

One of my experiences with a cult figure, and I must say it was an unpleasant one, occurred when I drove Abbie Hoffman from Long Island to NYC after he did a performance at C.W. Post College, where I was teaching at the time. He was a miserable SOB and I nearly turned him in to the cops when I reached the Midtown Tunnel. He was famous indeed, but a terrible carmate. Never even said thank you for the ride.

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Posted By: Chad

The band came out of the New York punk scene. That's not my fault, it's just a fact. I've just always thought that was interesting. (For what it's worth, I like Blondie adn MC5. But then, I listen to a lot of different stuff and I'm not a musician so I can't really tell you who's competent or groundbreaking and who's not. I just like what I like. My girlfriend hates it when I break out the Roger Miller and then follow him with Ned's Atomic Dustbin and then Sam and Dave, though.)

--Chad

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Posted By: Dave Grimes

...all these Punk Rockers from 20 - 30 years ago - becoming staid members of society, and spending all their disposable cash on little bits of cardboard

And they though we Hippies would turn out a bad lot

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Posted By: Andrew

I'm glad someone finally mentioned Fugazi, my all-time favorite. And don't forget about Minor Threat!

Andrew

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Posted By: Joe Tocco

It's all semantics really, but I consider Joy Division punk. The early stuff, particularly the Warsaw demos, are classic stripped down lo-fi punk. By the end their music was hinting towards what New Order would become, but you'd still never confuse the two.

I was born far too late to live through Joy Division, and even too late for New Order's heyday, but I did fly to Manchester for their reunion show in 1998 . I've gone to almost every North American show since.

Joe

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Posted By: DJ

You simply can't throw Blondie or the Talking Heads or even Velvet Underground on this list. They simply don't make me angry like "good punk"...when the musical message is all about rebellion. Don't get me wrong, I love all three (espeically Lou Reed) but we are straying too far away from genuine punk. We'll be adding Survivor and Rascal Flatts shortly.

When I saw Suicidal Tendancies in the mid-eighties when they first arrived on the scene, I got my ass kicked...people throwing themselves in my direction, not to injure...but it was about a unity of outcasts. Hard music, leather, mohawks, a ventilated face, black T-shirts..."Heart of Glass" never made me want to go into a violent fit. Can we throw Motorhead on this list? Lemmy...not an attractive man.

Of course I consider "ST" more a post, post punk band that borders on heavy metal (and even thrash metal), but I wasn't able to see the great bands that we speak of during their prime.

Butthole Surfers...great band. There is this movie called "The Devil and Daniel Johnston", a movie about a disturbed folk singer named Daniel Johnston and they interview Gibby while he is at the dentist working on his teeth. One of the most disturbing things you will ever see.

What about G.G Allin?

I'm just glad no one here considers Good Charlotte or New Found Glory punk. Phew!

DJ

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Posted By: Bruce

Wow, I forgot about G.G. Allin. He may have been the most hardcore of the hardcores. Never got to see him live but I had all his albums and recall seeing a good documentary on him in the 90's. Before baseball cards I collected punk/hardcore singles and albums. Now the only vinyl I have left is a few of the Misfits 7" that I can't seem to part with, even though I no longer own a turntable. I suppose they will find their way to ebay at some point so I can buy more cards.

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Posted By: JimB

Dan,
Thanks for the Sonic Youth video.
Here are my favorites:

1. X
2. Sonic Youth
3. Germs
4. Black Flag
5. Clash
6. The Jam (sort of punk or they would rank higher)
7. Sex Pistols
8. Dead Kennedys
9. Social Distortion
10. Lydia Lunch

JimB

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Posted By: PC

Clash vs. Ramones -- Clash by a mile. The Clash have better musicianship (to the extent it matters in punk), lyrics and intensity, across entire albums. In my humble opinion, the Ramones mailed in a lot of their material.

And I'm a Ramones fan, just have to be realistic in the comparisons to the Clash.

And I think The Clash pale in comparison to The Jam (the greatest UK band that most Americans never heard of). Paul Weller took the band in a very different direction after the first couple of records, but it is all great. If you don't have it already, pick up the Jam compilation "Snap". And their live record "Dig the New Breed" is also amazing ... they are very English sounding, which maybe explains why they never took off in the US the way they did in England.

But overall I prefer the American bands -- DKs, CJs (I was surprised reading through the posts how long it took before the Jerks were mentioned) and BF. And for more recent (meaning post 70s and 80s) punk-ish material, Social Distortion is great. I recommend "Somewhere Between Heaven and Hell" to all. What a great album.

Interesting OT posts here. And glad to read about yet more common interests.

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Posted By: Zach Rice

I'm a huge fan of the British punk movement as well as what broke ground here in the U.S. The Buzzcocks, The Clash, Siouxsie and the Banshees, etc. The Dead Boys are a group I don't think I’ve read about in this thread yet, they were amazing. Who can forget Sonic Reducer?

And though not totally "punk" but defiantly not easy listening either and more rock and roll, Iggy Pop and the Stooges need a mention in this thread.

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Posted By: S Gross

Whenever I feel old hanging out in Savannah with some SCAD students, I can always get a nod and a smile with my City Gardens stories.
King Tut's City Gardens, 1701 Calhoun St. Trenton NJ 08618 609-392-8887 (TUTS). An old stand alone super market in the worst area of Trenton, painted brown on the outside and black on the inside. Saw Ramones in '78, DKs in '82, and SD in mid-80's. Now I'm getting all misty .....

And since this threads gone complete punk, lets list our DKs "Fresh Fruit for Rotting Vegitables" album varities:

I have ---- Orange with full 6 piece band on back

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Posted By: JimB

PC,
I agree, Clash by a mile over the Ramones. Maybe it is just a New York thing and I am from LA, but the Ramones always seemed just sort of ok to me, but nothing special. Sonic Youth on the other hand, I think is one of the best bands in the past 25 years.

And The Jam were incredible. I know they started with punkish roots in '76 abd '77, but I usually think of them more as a mod band than punk. they were one of my favorite bands in high school, along with X, The Specials, etc.
JimB

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Posted By: Jay

I would like to echo Zach's words---who can forget Sonic Reducer? (Great for removing cellulite from those hard to exercise places)

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Posted By: John Basilone

" I forgot about G.G. Allin. He may have been the most hardcore of the hardcores. "

Agreed.

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Posted By: Alan

OK, that does it... Now, I'm definately going to see a punk concert while I am in Cleveland at the National.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

This is the best punk band none of you guys have ever heard of....Mercy Rule. Unfortunately nothing on youtube so I can't share with you how great they really were.

http://www.speednebraska.com/page7.html

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Posted By: barrysloate

Hate to get back on topic, but I think somewhere about 90 posts ago we were talking about tomorrow night's meeting. Well, I just heard the weather report and the prediction is for bitter cold, heavy winds, and some snow- a deep arctic freeze is heading in. I'm taking the subway, but for those travelling by car or otherwise, should we be keeping an eye on this?

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Posted By: Elliot

"the prediction is for bitter cold, heavy winds"

Not to mention what the weather outside might be like.

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Posted By: Frank Evanov

Barry, dress warm. Single digit temperatures. 1 inch of snow.

Frank