PSA 10 E98 Wagner mistake

[Matthew H]

Originally Posted by steve B

So out of 700+ extractions every one will go flawlessly without so much as a minor complication? Or as a better analogy, 700+ extractions without a slipup in the billing department?

I've gone to the wrong dentists.("Do NOT put the hook in this tooth here it has a huge cavity" -Where's the first place she jabbed that hook? Yep, and she nearly lost a finger. Pain really shouldn't have smells and colors )

Steve B

+1 on dentistry I never gave the guy who stitched my gum to the side of my cheek a second chance!

Peter S, I personally can't see the difference between most 9s and 10s. I'm ok with that. I'm sure there are plenty of people here that can point out microscopic scan flaws. Check out the mint 9 Cobb in the set offering, can someone point out the difference between it and the 10 Wagner? I sure can't see it.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Matthew H

+1 on dentistry I never gave the guy who stitched my gum to the side of my cheek a second chance!

Peter S, I personally can't see the difference between most 9s and 10s. I'm ok with that. I'm sure there are plenty of people here that can point out microscopic scan flaws. Check out the mint 9 Cobb in the set offering, can someone point out the difference between it and the 10 Wagner? I sure can't see it.

I've also had excellent dentists, including one who gave the novocaine shot and I didn't even feel it.

My point was more that in nearly every field there's stuff that goes wrong. Expecting PSA or anyone to be perfect is just as much a case of rose colored glasses as thinking none of those mistakes ever get brushed off.

Two cards out of 700+ got into each others holders. I can see that happening. And it did get fixed before serious money got spent.

Steve B

[barrysloate]

I have a good dentist, although he's a little long in the tooth....

[oldjudge]

Let me preface this by saying I know nothing about caramel cards. That said, to be a 10 doesn't the card need perfect registration? This card has white around Wagner's face, etc.

[Cardboard Junkie]

"Say what you want to about PSA, but each of the few times I Have spoken with Joe O. I came away being impressed with his honesty, integrity and love of the hobby." (Leon)



It takes one to know one aloha, dave pierson

[travrosty]

joe o . doesnt comment on laser printed autographs, why it happened, how it happened, how he is going to make sure it doesnt happen again, how many could possible still be out there in encapsulated holders.

i have noticed when it comes to the TOUGH questions, he clams up and won't say anything. always no comment.

softballs he hits out of the park, however.

[Cardboard Junkie]

Hey Travis, pay no attention to that man behind the curtain. (I just wonder what he's doing in that handbasket) dave.

[buymycards]

When my dentist graded my teeth he gave my molars "8"'s and I could have sworn they would grade out as 9's. Must have been off centered or maybe print marks.

[glynparson]

I have found him to be a good guy. You must remember he does have a job to do as President of PSA which includes protecting the brand and remember he comes from law school so he has that lawyer training. I do think he cares about the hobby, he was a collector long before he went to work at PSA. I've had some issues over the years, as every dealer does at some point in time, and I found Joe always handled them professionally and courteously. I know others did not fair so well, hi Dan, but I've never had an issue that they didn't at least attempt to help resolve.

[danmckee]

Leon, while Joe was being honest and full of integrity and caring about the hobby, did you bother to ask him why he never paid me my legal fees after I won my lawsuit?

The back of PSA's submission form at the time stated that if you won a judgement against them, that they would pay your legal fees.

When I called Joe and asked for the fees, he screamed and hung up on me.

honest, integrity, caring for the hobby.

Dan Mckee

[Cardboard Junkie]

I could carve a better man out of a banana. dave

[botn]

Originally Posted by danmckee

Leon, while Joe was being honest and full of integrity and caring about the hobby, did you bother to ask him why he never paid me my legal fees after I won my lawsuit?

The back of PSA's submission form at the time stated that if you won a judgement against them, that they would pay your legal fees.

When I called Joe and asked for the fees, he screamed and hung up on me.

honest, integrity, caring for the hobby.

Dan Mckee

Dan I would do the same thing to you if you called me to simply say "Hello". At least Joe took your call. He will not take mine ever again.

Seriously though, in this thread Leon has already described or characterized Heritage and Joe as having integrity and caring about the hobby. I attempted to engage him in a discussion to no avail. Leon has spoken...or not.

Hope all is well.

Greg

[Cardboard Junkie]

I know one thing for sure. Will Rogers never met J. O. aloha, dave.

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

the ten Cobbs aren't the problem. I think the 47 Wagners will be. There will be one or two high grade examples in every subsequent auction. An E98 Wagner in PSA 7 is going to be an affordable card.

I happened to pick up my first E98, an orange SGC40 Wagner right around when the posts about this find began circulating. I'm definitely a collector first, but also do like to think I'm making good/wise purchases should I ever need the money back sometime down the road. Was it a really bad time to buy this card?? There were a couple condition issues that made me consider returning it, but I love its look and have decided to keep it.. for now at least.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Cardboard Junkie

I could carve a better man out of a banana. dave

But can you stick the banana where the sun don't shine? I am sure that would be a great place for it. Or you could stick it in your pie hole so stupid things quit coming out of it? aloha

[Leon]

Originally Posted by botn

Dan I would do the same thing to you if you called me to simply say "Hello". At least Joe took your call. He will not take mine ever again.

Seriously though, in this thread Leon has already described or characterized Heritage and Joe as having integrity and caring about the hobby. I attempted to engage him in a discussion to no avail. Leon has spoken...or not.

Hope all is well.

Greg

Maybe if you didn't act like a freaking idiot he would speak with you too?

[Bicem]

Originally Posted by Leon

But can you stick the banana where the sun don't shine? I am sure that would be a great place for it. Or you could stick it in your pie hole so stupid things quit coming out of it? aloha

harsh.

[danmckee]

Originally Posted by botn

Dan I would do the same thing to you if you called me to simply say "Hello". At least Joe took your call. He will not take mine ever again.

Seriously though, in this thread Leon has already described or characterized Heritage and Joe as having integrity and caring about the hobby. I attempted to engage him in a discussion to no avail. Leon has spoken...or not.

Hope all is well.

Greg

It has been many years but if I remember correctly he was anxious to talk to me at the time because of something I posted on here about him in court.

He got the last dig in as he hung up on me.

You have to love our legal system though, I do nothing wrong, I have an item of mine lost by a company, I go through the proper channels to recoup my funds, and I still lose $1800 in legal fees and travel that I was not allowed to add to the lawsuit.

No wonder people get shot after court rulings.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by danmckee

It has been many years but if I remember correctly he was anxious to talk to me at the time because of something I posted on here about him in court.

He got the last dig in as he hung up on me.

You have to love our legal system though, I do nothing wrong, I have an item of mine lost by a company, I go through the proper channels to recoup my funds, and I still lose $1800 in legal fees and travel that I was not allowed to add to the lawsuit.

No wonder people get shot after court rulings.

If I just lost a court case to you I would probably hang up on you too. IF the law said the loser had to pay court and legal fees then they should have done it. If not, then I doubt his company would want to pony up. I understand your frustration. Joe never said he, or his company, was perfect. Actually, as a good friend of mine, I am glad you won Dan. That doesn't make me think Joe or PSA is evil though. It makes me think they lost your Magie card and had to pay for their error.

[ullmandds]

Lawsuits rarely end amicably! Some douche bag ran over my parked motorcycle a few years ago in front of 10 to 15 witnesses! he was so nice when it happened but when it came time to retribution he was a prick! People's true colors tend to reveal themselves in situations such as these.

Similarly I lost the use of my motorcycle for the whole summer and countless hours of my time trying to get this douche to pay never to be reimbursed!

[danmckee]

Originally Posted by Leon

If I just lost a court case to you I would probably hang up on you too. IF the law said the loser had to pay court and legal fees then they should have done it. If not, then I doubt his company would want to pony up. I understand your frustration. Joe never said he, or his company, was perfect. Actually, as a good friend of mine, I am glad you won Dan. That doesn't make me think Joe or PSA is evil though. It makes me think they lost your Magie card and had to pay for their error.

uh ok, my point is:

PSA stated on the back of their forms at the time that if you won a judgement against them, they would cover your legal fees.

I agree it wasn't legally a responsibility for Joe to cover them but I spoke up in this thread about his integrity and honesty and to me, not paying me when the back of your form states that you will, is not a sign of integrity or honesty.

Also, I might add that after we won the judgemment, we were not paid until my council sent a letter thereatening to have a Sheriff watch PSA open their incoming mail and to collect my funds then.

A check was Fedex'd to me the next day.

integrity, honesty, cares about the hobby.

Dan Mckee


P.S. thanks for being glad I won, me too! It was a nightmare of an ordeal and one I do not wish on anyone to have to go through. It was very stressful.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Lawsuits rarely end amicably! Some douche bag ran over my parked motorcycle a few years ago in front of 10 to 15 witnesses! he was so nice when it happened but when it came time to retribution he was a prick! People's true colors tend to reveal themselves in situations such as these.

Similarly I lost the use of my motorcycle for the whole summer and countless hours of my time trying to get this douche to pay never to be reimbursed!

Getting him to pay was like pulling teeth eh?

[botn]

Originally Posted by Leon

Maybe if you didn't act like a freaking idiot he would speak with you too?

I will never be as good as you are at kissin' ass.

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by Leon

If I just lost a court case to you I would probably hang up on you too. IF the law said the loser had to pay court and legal fees then they should have done it. If not, then I doubt his company would want to pony up. I understand your frustration. Joe never said he, or his company, was perfect. Actually, as a good friend of mine, I am glad you won Dan. That doesn't make me think Joe or PSA is evil though. It makes me think they lost your Magie card and had to pay for their error.

why did i take court for them to pay for the card, if they are so nice?

[peterose4hof]

Originally Posted by itjclarke

I happened to pick up my first E98, an orange SGC40 Wagner right around when the posts about this find began circulating. I'm definitely a collector first, but also do like to think I'm making good/wise purchases should I ever need the money back sometime down the road. Was it a really bad time to buy this card?? There were a couple condition issues that made me consider returning it, but I love its look and have decided to keep it.. for now at least.

I believe all of the Black Swamp Wagners were of the Red variety. I don't think the oranges will be negatively impacted. In fact, one could make a case that the orange's will become more valuable due to their relative scarcity to the reds.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by danmckee

uh ok, my point is:

PSA stated on the back of their forms at the time that if you won a judgement against them, they would cover your legal fees.

I agree it wasn't legally a responsibility for Joe to cover them but I spoke up in this thread about his integrity and honesty and to me, not paying me when the back of your form states that you will, is not a sign of integrity or honesty.

IF the form said they would pay those fees then they should have and that was a mistake on their part, agreed.

However, it would be nice to get back to the original topic of the thread. You are more than welcome to start a new thread concerning this legal issue if you want to. I have never told you not to start a thread or talk about anyone or any business. regards

[ullmandds]

pete...it was harder than pulling most teeth!!!!! C'mon, Dan...it's the same thing?!?!?!?!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by danmckee

It has been many years but if I remember correctly he was anxious to talk to me at the time because of something I posted on here about him in court.

He got the last dig in as he hung up on me.

You have to love our legal system though, I do nothing wrong, I have an item of mine lost by a company, I go through the proper channels to recoup my funds, and I still lose $1800 in legal fees and travel that I was not allowed to add to the lawsuit.

No wonder people get shot after court rulings.

Someone didn't charge you nearly enough!!

[Exhibitman]

Never mind

[travrosty]

back to the wagner card, if joe o. is so helpfulm please ask him to relay his findings on just how this mixup occurred and just what they are going to do to make sure it doesn't happen again.

consumer confidence in their ability to not mixup peoples cards and holders would rise if he gave details on how it happened and explained the safeguards that will be put in place to ensure it doesn't happen again. Not just some generic explanation with a wing and a prayer promise they won't do it again.

[glynparson]

that every single grading company, with any significant amount of submissions, has reversed cards. Should this have been caught absolutely. Is this a PSA only problem noway.

[barrysloate]

You have to think that with a collection of this magnitude, with 30 or 40 of nearly every card, it wouldn't be hard to transpose two cards. Imagine being handed 40 raw Wagners that all look the same and trying to keep them all in order. I'm not giving PSA a free pass, it was a bad mistake on a very prominent card, but it would be pretty easy to get mixed up with this massive group of cards.

[danmckee]

Dan mckee dan mckee dan mckee dan mckee

[danmckee]

BOOTH 1621 and 1720 at the National if anyone would like to stop by

I am real shy and scared of attention

[Cardboard Junkie]

edited

[danmckee]

Peon Luckey?????????

That is funny! but not cool.

Leon is the board master and I adhere to his policies

still funny and I hope he laughs too but Leon is not a Peon, he is a friend and though we disagree sometimes, he still runs this board and I agree with all of his decisions regarding the board.

Dan

[bigfish]

You are on fire....I hope to catch up with you at the national...Hopefully for a few beers...maybe I could run the cotton candy machine behind your stand?