Open letter to STAT and Christopher Morales

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>boxingcardman</b><p>At least I am post 750!<br><br>Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Nick</b><p>It appears if they now sell on ebay as well. I am a longtime packer collector/dealer and continue to see the numerous Favre, Don Hutson & Nitschke items that pass through their auctions. Here is their link:<br /><a href="http://tinyurl.com/62m9h8" target="_new">http://tinyurl.com/62m9h8</a>

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Anonymous</b><p>Looks as though Ebay removed the questionable item. Between this and the "Florida Fakes" thread, it's good to see that they are doing some things right...

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p>I can't possibly read all of this, could someone sum this up for me briefly so I know who the bad guys are? thanks Dan.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Nick</b><p>You should read it all. It took me almost an entire morning a few weeks back. It is full of hobby history and information you can't get in a short post. Even if you have traveled all over the country for shows, think you know a certain niche or signature, have met everyone you think possible....everyday there is new information I learn from someone else and it pieces things together.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Mark</b><p>Dan, I agree that the entire thread is worthy of being carefully read. But if time is an issue (for you and others here), here is a brief recap...<br /><br />Much of the thread concerns Coach's Corner (who has been auctioning bogus and highly questionable autographed pieces for years). Discussion has revolved around how they are able to keep doing this without being shut down, who is providing these consignments, and who is actually buying them.<br /><br />The other main culprits are Sports Collectors Digest (SCD) for enabling Coach's Corner all these years, and Christopher Morales (who is the head authenticator for Coach's Corner).<br /><br />Much anger has been directed to SCD for turning a blind eye, and accepting the ad revenue (despite the obvious fraud).<br /><br />Regarding Morales, most have questioned not only his abilities as an authenticator, but his self-proclaimed credentials (which have been scrutinized, and exposed as being highly enhanced).<br /><br />There is so much more... in the spirit of keeping it brief, those are some of the main points.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Pscolgrafs</b><p>Above is correct, this is a rather interesting thread with many fine turns and quite educational. Read thirty threads a day and you will get through it no time. I did that with Tolstoy's "War and Peace" and if I had skimmed to the end, I would have been disappointed (and lost) as I would not understand how it came to be that Moscow would be rebuilt and following the death of Elana, Pierre would live happily ever after with Natasha. <br /><br />The items on eBay that probably originated from Coach's (as there is no mention) have been removed, but what's interesting is deep in their feedback is a pocket of negatives where one seller sent some 6-8 items to Global and JSA and they failed them all. <br /><br />As far as the current auction goes, Morales authenticated Shoeless Joe Jackson baseball (currently at $800), John Wilkes Booth, Josh Gibson Single Signed, just about any 19th Century Baseball cut signature, Jimmie Foxx signed jersey and of course Sitting Bull and Geronimo. What amazes me is that this auction in Coach's far exceeds the quality merchandise in ANY of the catalogs weighing down my table at this moment. I mean Rob (Robert Edward) has a few incredibly rare Josh Gibson items (that famous signed postcard, a contract) but do they have a single signed baseball? <br /><br />How about pants? <br /><br />Kudos to Rob. A jawdropping auction.<br /><br />

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Nick</b><p>I think the Mantle/Maris/Paige/Robinson signed, very clean white baseball that Coaches has now might be one of the top 15-20 signed pieces I have ever seen. The signatures are perfect, right on top of each other and the same pen, just amazing. The collector who put that ball together is probably hoping for a $20,000 return on all the time he spent traveling/writing to get it done. I hope the consigner speaks out if the ball doesn't realize a "fair" price. It is graded a 7.5 but my opinion, although not worth much as I never worked for the FBI or searched ancient tombs....would grade this a perfect 10.<br /><a href="http://www.myccsa.com/Lot.aspx?LotID=85462" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.myccsa.com/Lot.aspx?LotID=85462</a>

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>J.McMurry</b><p>Hmmmm, Lets see, Robinson died in 1972, Paige in 1982,Maris in 85 and the Mick in 95,.. yet the ball looks like it was signed at the same time with the same pen and is a bright white. Hmmmmmm. Yeah ok, no red flags here.lol<br /><br />

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Nick</b><p>The simple fact they will openly bash JSA, PSA etc. and then allow those items into their auctions and put "JSA" in the title shows how little integrity they have as a company. If I had a problem with those companies and would send emails and post things on websites how they are not qualified, why would I allow their items in my auction? I want someone to explain that from Coaches Corner? If you have your own team of authenticating greats, why are you not using their services to verify the PSA, JSA items, which you have openly discussed as not being qualified to do that kind of work?<br /><br />My SCD subscription finally expired last week and I had my "new" sales rep call (seems like I get a new one every year) who had very little knowledge of the advertisers already in the magazine ask me to advertise this year...not gonna happen.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Richard Simon</b><p>There was an e mail going around earlier during this thread's popularity.<br />It named four names as being the big suppliers of CC.<br />I won't print them here as I have no proof and I don't know if the accusation is true.<br />If the accusation is true then one of the names would shock me and many others in the hobby for sure. The other three names were no surprise.<br />--<br><br>I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.<br />Unknown author <br />--<br />We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember.<br />No retreat baby, no surrender.<br />The Boss

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Fudd</b><p>I'm not sure if you guys caught this article? Apparently, many of you that have posted here were mentioned or added to the story so I thought I would post it for everyone to see.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/2008/04/19/2008-04-19_beatles_authenticator_at_heart_of_memora.html?p age=0" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/2008/04/19/2008-04-19_beatles_authenticator_at_heart_of_memora.html?p age=0</a><br />

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>DD</b><p>It looks like Morales himself has posted there. What other parasite would post in his defense?<br /><br />Also, why haven't we seen an outpouring of "forensic" authenticators? If this type of skill was needed, wouldn't every authentication company hire one? And what exactly is done "forensically" to determine if an autograph is real that PSA/DNA or JSA, or Richard Simon or Jodi Birkholm wouldn't do? I'm sure all of them know that even if a Babe Ruth signature looked perfect, with old fountain pen ink, but was signed on laser copier paper, that it's a fake. <br /><br />Where does the real forensic community stand on this issue? Afterall, it is one of their dearest members being vilified in a national newspaper. My bet is they don't care because 1) it's not an issue that comes up enough, and 2) Morales is so far down the forensic world food chain that Jeffery Deaver could probably discredit him in court in 3 seconds.<br /><br />

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>CS Bolay</b><p>There is at least one Forensic examiner who has tried to defend Morales; I suspect he has little knowledge of the CCSA situation however.<br /><br />From the Brill Report:<br /><br />"I read your article regarding Chris Morales and Don Frangipani. I find your contumelius attitude about him and other Forensic Documents Examiners to be quite offensive. I have known Mr. Frangipani and Mr. Morales for years and they have never been found unqualified by a court. Famous signatures are no different than anybody else's signatures. The methods of reviewing them are the same. No one is wrong 1100 times, the amount of times I am told Mr. (James) Spence has disagreed with Mr. Frangipani. It is more likely Mr. Spence may be mistaken in HIS opinions."<br /><br />Robert J. Phillips<br /><br />Forensic Document Examiner<br /><br /><a href="http://www.bobbrillreport.com/2008/04/20/index.html" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.bobbrillreport.com/2008/04/20/index.html</a> (bottom)<br /><br />Hogwash. And what of 'the Donald?' Didn't he say himself he was 'fooled.' The FBI has gobs of his COAs on file.<br /><br />~If anyone is desperately bored, there is a related thread on ebay collectibles board where msyelf and other boardies shared thoughts on the Morales issue...<br /><br /><a href="http://forums.ebay.com/db2/thread.jspa?threadID=1000649552&tstart=0&mod=12088 90948877" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://forums.ebay.com/db2/thread.jspa?threadID=1000649552&tstart=0&mod=12088 90948877</a>

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Josh</b><p>All of this is a real eye opener to a lot of people.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Richard S. Simon</b><p>If Mr Phillips really did write that letter, he does not know how to spell<br />contumelius. If you are going to use those words, then people usually spell them properly. It is contumelious.<br />ps. There is a separate thread on Net54 about the Daily News story already.<br />--<br><br>I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.<br />Unknown author <br />--<br />We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember.<br />No retreat baby, no surrender.<br />The Boss

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Jodi Birkholm</b><p>However that word is spelled, I have never heard of it before (and I have read enough to last me a lifetime). Way to pull out the Roget's in a feeble attempt to make yourself credible! Use the spell check next time!

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Nick</b><p>An article in the New York times is a big deal. Someone knows someone and got the word out. That is what this forum was meant to do. Now that article will pop in google searches...which is how I found this site and reference. It is only a matter of time before someone is going down.<br /><br />On another note, I found the quote from Lee at CC that there are certainly more qualified people to do the work of Morales a very interesting one, truly they would rather fly under the radar then put these pieces in a major auction house.<br /><br />Perhaps CC knows that their time is up and in an attempt to get as much as they can before closing up they are throwing all of this stuff into the market just to see what they can get away with. That would be truly sad in my opinion.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Nick</b><p>The Satchel Paige, Maris, Mantle & Jackie Robinson got a whopping $2100....I am sure the consigner is furious and wants a full explanation.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>DJ</b><p>I'm sure that consignor is far from furious.<br /><br />I think it's a big deal (the article) if something good comes from this. But their last auction concluded last weekened (typical heavily discounted rarities) and their new auction is up today. <br /><br />They sold a Joe Jackson ball authenticated by Morales last month for $7777 and guess what? Another one this month! A really nice one this time! As well as a Beatles signed baseball, Marilyn Monroe signed baseball and ANOTHER Lou Gehrig signed jersey. <br /><br />DJ

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>shelly jaffe</b><p>What I really like about the new CC auction is there are very few Morales pieces. Now if we can go after STAT like we did Morales we might be able to get CC to hire a legitimate authenticator. Of course that will mean very few if any items will be for sale.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Brad L.</b><p>Whew! I got through about 50 posts or so and had to quit. This is a VERY interesting read here, and I will most definately finish reading all of the posts (probably next month, lol), and doing some research on all of the parties and books mentioned. <br /><br />One sad thing that results from this type of fraud (aside from the usual perception of an "uneducated buyer")is that the items that are sold, more than likely, keep recirculating by other crooks. Take one forged auto'd baseball as an example. Unless these scams get shut down, it really turns into much more than one sale. That same ball could generate hundreds of thousands of dollars in many sales over the course of it's journey through the hands of scam artists. <br /><br />I honestly find some of the things I've read (I am just learing of this "operation bullpen," and some of the current scam auction houses now) are just plain sickening. For someone to knowingly scam people out of money in any industry is intolerable in my opinion. It takes a real "tortured soul" to knowingly steal this potentially large amount of money from people. And to continue to do so as "business as usual" is disgusting to me.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>DJ</b><p>Shelly, I disagree. This about the same amount as usual in regards to items authenticated by Morales. Usually 30-40 and when I pop in Morales, 30 items come up. Check out the 200 or so by Stat though!<br /><br />STAT: <a href="http://www.myccsa.com/Search.aspx?SearchText=STAT" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.myccsa.com/Search.aspx?SearchText=STAT</a><br /><br />I found some new favorites! Amelia Earhart and Charles Lindbergh signed baseball! James Dean signed baseball! A Softball signed by comedians like Buster Keaton and Abbott and Costello! Jesse Burkett signed straw hat! And of course all my favorite 19th century Baseball cuts like J.J McGinnity and Dan Brouthers. <br /><br />It's about several things, but if Morales (and STAT) can get passed the HBO Real Sports show, the pummeling here on the board (as well as other boards) and the NY Daily News...they truly are bullet proof and it's about new Government eyes and SCD doing something. <br /><br />I would give about anything to see their consignor list. <br /><br />DJ<br /><br />

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>shelly jaffe</b><p>Sorry, you are correct. I guess we just have to keep on pushing SCD to stop the madness.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Sean C</b><p>STAT and Morales "flipping" on CCA, or vice versa when action is finally taken. <br /><br />To paraphrase B.I.G. "All the money they stacked was the money for bail".

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Jodi Birkholm</b><p>Of all the ideas floating around in this crazy atmosphere, the truth, for those with nothing to fear, is the easiest, most beautiful thing to fall in love with. Those with hidden agendas should seek shelter under the nearest rock that will have them.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>DJ</b><p>I am perplexed by your cryptic message Jodi. <br /><br />Are there agendas here in place on this thread? <br /><br />DJ

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Jodi Birkholm</b><p>I don't feel it's cryptic at all. No, the second part of the statement is not aimed at this thread, but rather anyone who carries the burdensome reputation of profiting through deception. The whole statement can be used as a guideline in how to conduct oneself, don't you think?

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Josh Siegel</b><p>There is a stat authetic Mel Ott single signed ball on eBay right now, #130220658921 that appears to be the real deal. Do they get lucky every once and a while? Is this one of the rare items that is worth going after with a STAT COA?

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Eric</b><p>I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that it's bogus. As are all the other balls the seller is trying to get rid of with the Stat COA's. I'm surprised Ebay hasn't pulled these, though it's only been about 12 hours.<br /><br />I wouldn't touch anything that is accompanied by a STAT COA. STAT = CRAP

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Mark</b><p>Eric's right... it's a fake, as are all 6 of his offerings. Granted, the Ott looks a bit closer than his McGraw, Cobb and Waner (which are all preposterous). I bet these balls all disappear from Ebay before the weekend.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Mark</b><p>Wanted to add that I have to be out all day, or I would write to Ebay about this bogus seller, and the fact that STAT is not an authorized authenticator.<br /><br />If anyone reading this thread has time today, to contact Ebay about these 6 forged balls, it will surely serve to clean things up and protect some less savvy bidders/collectors.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Richard S. Simon</b><p>They are all crap. Bet they get taken down.<br />--<br><br>I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.<br />Unknown author <br />--<br />We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember.<br />No retreat baby, no surrender.<br />The Boss

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>DD</b><p><a href="http://www.tedsilary.com/tedtaylor.htm" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.tedsilary.com/tedtaylor.htm</a><br /><br />Read the part about net54. Taylor talks about the attacks on Morales, and how people on this small “hobby” internet blog makes him sick.<br /><br />If he wants to be made sick, he should look back at his failures at Scoreboard and Fleer, and how someone that has survived what he has been through can find it in his soul to justify ripping people off.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>shelly jaffe</b><p>STAT balls all gone.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>DD- that write up on Ted's site is so wrong it's not even funny. I imagine once his lawyers take a hard look at the legalities (Section 230 of Title 47 of the United States Code (47 USC § 230) he is saying he knows he will find out he is wrong. For the record I don't think there are any totally anonymous posts in this thread and if there are then they will be taken down. That is a forum rule. I have absolutely no worry about his rubbish talking with respect to my liabilities.....so please continue but make sure we put names by our posts. I do agree that folks should not be allowed to hide behind a screen name when making accusations....best regards<br /><br />edited as I said section 203 and it's 230

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>boxingcardman</b><p>"court qualified" is a misleading phrase. When you try a case with a technical or scientific issue, or another matter of expertise that the ordinary Joe Citizen would not be expected to know, a party to the case can retain an expert to testify on that point. The experts are NOT neutrals and are NOT "tested" by the court. What they really are rhymes with "Moors"; they never see the inside of a court-room unless they are going to testify favorably for the party who hired them and you know that in advance from discovery. <br /><br />Now, when you actually go to court, you present your "Moor" and the other side has the right to cross-examine the "Moor" on his or her qualifications (called voir dire-ing the witness). If there are no objections at all, the "Moor" will be able to testify without challenge from the judge. If the "Moor" is questioned but appears to have the degrees, course work or whatever else that would lead one to believe he has some knowledge in the subject field, the judge will let him testify, regardless of whether he is the absolute worst expert in the world. Getting to testify is all it means when a "Moor" claims he was "qualified" as an expert in court. The judge doesn't test the "Moor" to see what he knows. It is up to the other side to cross-examine the "Moor" and prove to the judge and jury that the guy is a clown. I have no doubt that if an authenticator who was clobbered on TV tried to testify in court again, a knowledgeable cross-examining attorney would be able to bring in the authenticator's errors to impeach him but he would not be able to exclude the expert entirely on the sole grounds that he is really, really bad at his job. <br><br>Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Anonymous</b><p>It's Moops!

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>David Davis</b><p>In the current CC auction, they have a Daniel Boone cut, Ben Franklin, another Dan Brouthers, and the most laughable Lajoie sig I have ever seen.<br /><br />However, on a positive note, I believe I will be sending my cut sigs of Adam and Eve, the aliens that crashed in Roswell, along with the person that modelled the Piltdown Man skull to STAT for their authentication. <br /><br />In addition, for the benefit of Mr. Taylor, this is my real name, even if it sounds made up.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Jodi Birkholm</b><p>Quoting David: "However, on a positive note, I believe I will be sending my cut sigs of Adam and Eve, the aliens that crashed in Roswell, along with the person that modelled the Piltdown Man skull to STAT for their authentication."<br /><br />Maybe we could group these together in a lot with my John the Baptist's shower curtains consignment. <br />

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Richard S. Simon</b><p>Jodi - how come you get all the good items for sale?<br />--<br><br>I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.<br />Unknown author <br />--<br />We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember.<br />No retreat baby, no surrender.<br />The Boss

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Jodi Birkholm</b><p>Divine intervention.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p>Boxingcardman - what do you know about legal court??

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Bill Panagopulos</b><p>Oh Mr. Taylor! Mr. Morales! Will you please sue me first?!? <br /><br />Didn't Mr. Morales' client, American Royal Arts, sue Frank Caiazzo? Looks like it blew up in their face (See NY Daily News article cited above)<br /><br />I'd wager that by the time this plays out, Frank will have a chateau in the Loire Valley.<br /><br />And let me add that I personally wouldn't turn your material over with a stick...<br /><br />Anyway, if you guys sue me, then I can counter-sue YOU for authenticating what I (and many others) believe is some of the worst material ever to come to market. As a matter of fact, I've never seen ANYTHING either of you has authenticated that I would ever offer in any of my auctions. If your material is indeed "bad", and if it was passed as result of incompetent authentication and gross negligence, despite warnings made to you to the contrary, and despite your implied warranty of merchantability, that may explain why the prices realized for that material are so weak. <br /><br />Continuing that thought, those weak prices, well documented in your auction sales results, would make a great claim for having:<br /><br />A/ DRIVEN POTENTIAL CUSTOMERS AWAY FROM THE INDUSTRY THAT SUPPORTS ME, AND;<br />B/ LOWERED THE PRICES THAT AUTHENTIC MATERIAL ACHIEVES IN THE MARKETPLACE.<br /><br />So, go ahead and sue me. Sue everyone. Get your books in order. Be prepared for a countersuit and discovery. Bring your checkbooks and a pen - because in the end, I can assure you that it will be YOU who shall be writing a settlement check. <br /><br />Or maybe you just just find another job...<br /><br />Yours philographically,<br /><br />BASIL A. "BILL" PANAGOPULOS (Get the spelling right, please)<br />PRESIDENT, ALEXANDER AUTOGRAPHS, INC.<br />860 CANAL ST, 2ND FL.<br />STAMFORD, CT 06902<br /><br />HOURS FOR SERVICE OF LEGAL PAPERS: 10AM-5PM EST

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Bill Panagopulos</b><p>Sorry guys - I've been absent, but every few weeks I post the following:<br /><br />Mr. Morales: Your website states, verbatim:<br /><br />QUOTE<br /><br />"An Open Challenge<br /><br />As noted herein, I will meet anyone in a public forum to review and assess my work efforts. Since private communications are often cherry picked to bolster a point of view, at times misdirecting the facts, it is my position that any meetings and communications be conduct in the open. If anyone desires to contact me concerning an open forum, please do not hesitate to call, email or otherwise contact me at anytime".<br /><br />UNQUOTE<br /><br /><br />Mr. Morales, I hereby challenge you to appear, before a group of your peers in the autograph authentication trade and the international press, to:<br /><br />a.) Discuss your "forensic" methods of authentication, and your education and qualifications, using exemplars or otherwise;<br /><br />b.) Describe in detail other criteria you used to authenticate the thousands of various autographs for which you have issued certificates;<br /><br />c.) explain your relationships, if any, with the various consignors, auction houses, galleries, etc. for whom you authenticate, and;<br /><br />d.) assess your work efforts, ie: how have your authentications been received in the autograph market, as a whole.<br /><br />If you wish to limit the discussion to your "work efforts" alone, I would expect your peers would still meet with you, depending on the agenda. <br /><br />I will pay your airfare and hotel room expenses for your attendance at such a forum in the New York area, for a meeting within the next 60 days. As stated above, I expect you would be asked to respond to inquiries from your peers, that is, knowledgeable, recognized dealers of the same material which you have authenticated. Should the location not be convenient for you, I'm sure we can arrange a meeting in Falls Church. Mr. Shelly Jaffe has already graciously agreed to attend, as has Mr. Frank Caiazzo. <br /><br />I assume that this email will reach you, since I do not have your emali address. If anyone posting to this site can confirm delivery to Mr. Morales, I would be much obliged.<br /><br />B. Panagopulos / Alexander Autographs, Inc.<br /><br />PS This message has also been sent directly to Mr. Morales several times...BP

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p>Priceless! I hope Taylor Ted covers this one!!!!

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Nick</b><p>This actually offends me, not only as a Christian, but that they would use as their detail of how this was obtained.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.myccsa.com/Lot.aspx?LotID=90816" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.myccsa.com/Lot.aspx?LotID=90816</a>

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Jodi Birkholm</b><p>Don't be too offended, Nick. It's not as if the story is true. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Eric</b><p>Nicely played Bill!<br /><br />That was a great read. Thank you.

[Archive]

Posted By: <b>Bill Panagopulos</b><p>Don't be offended by the Diana ball - my opinion it was signed by Sarah Schwartz of Bayonne and her manicurist, Diana Dingle of Union City. I think they might have been at the homeless shelter having gotten down on their luck...Worst Diana I've ever seen.<br /><br />PS Appreciate the compliments - it's just my job.