Hey, pennant guys

[ricardoh]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Wow, those are some rarely seen logos on those mini-pennants. Really love the quirkiness and "off colors". Especially like the Reds Mascot... Is that a Policeman holding a Beer Stein? Must admit I've never even seen most of those.

Great post!

One of the things I love the most about the mini pennants, especially from the 30s, like the BF3's, are the color variations. These are 8inch and many of the teams have the same designs as their smaller versions. Here is an example of the Cleveland Indians and many of the colors it came in. I know more colors were made, too.

[ricardoh]

here is another one I almost forgot I had, from 1918, not as pretty as the others, but where you going to find another one? and more variations of some from the 40s. and 50s. for me, variations are the spice of life. in pennants, that is. by the way, the last scroll pennant on the right in the bottom picture is a well made knockoff (I believe from the 80s) of the one next to it, too often mistaken as vintage, while it is not, although it is still collectible.

[icollectDCsports]

Wow!

[perezfan]

Double Wow!!

Never seen many of those and LOVE the color variations. That is a phenomenal collection of Sox Pennants. Gotta be the best to exist.

Are there any variations you're missing, or still trying to hunt down?

Tremendous!

[ricardoh]

I do have a lot more I could post but these are the best and my favorite ones. I've been going to shows around the country for 30 years as a dealer, about 8 shows a year, plus ebay is the river that never stops flowing, so have had a ton of opportunities to run into them over that long. And of course there are many I've never seen and many very old ones I have seen I don't have. Finding anything I don't have is great, of course; it doesn't get old!

[ooo-ribay]

Just picked this up. Not fantastic shape but the price was right.

Question: The Giants won 3 pennants in the 1930s and 2 more in the 1950s. I usually see this pennant referred to as "1950s." Mike Egner's book says these are from the 1940s but I doubt that. Why is it this pennant couldn't be from the 1930s? The players certainly look of that era or earlier.

[MK]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Just picked this up. Not fantastic shape but the price was right.

Question: The Giants won 3 pennants in the 1930s and 2 more in the 1950s. I usually see this pennant referred to as "1950s." Mike Egner's book says these are from the 1940s but I doubt that. Why is it this pennant couldn't be from the 1930s? The players certainly look of that era or earlier.

I've always believed the Cubs version of this pennant was from the 1930s rather than 1945 as Egner states. Have never been able to find proof, just a feeling.

[phillies]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Just picked this up. Not fantastic shape but the price was right.

Question: The Giants won 3 pennants in the 1930s and 2 more in the 1950s. I usually see this pennant referred to as "1950s." Mike Egner's book says these are from the 1940s but I doubt that. Why is it this pennant couldn't be from the 1930s? The players certainly look of that era or earlier.

There is a Phillies version of that exact pennant and they only had one NL championship between 1915 and 1980, which was 1950.

[ricardoh]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Just picked this up. Not fantastic shape but the price was right.

Question: The Giants won 3 pennants in the 1930s and 2 more in the 1950s. I usually see this pennant referred to as "1950s." Mike Egner's book says these are from the 1940s but I doubt that. Why is it this pennant couldn't be from the 1930s? The players certainly look of that era or earlier.

my opinion is it is 50s. 30s pennants were usually with thicker felt, a thinner border, and often more like spaghetti tassles. very nice in any case!

[MK]

Originally Posted by ricardoh

my opinion is it is 50s. 30s pennants were usually with thicker felt, a thinner border, and often more like spaghetti tassles. very nice in any case!

Obviously, the Cubs version had to be from the 1930s or 40s, as 1945 was their last pennant. The most obvious answer is they were made over a period of many years. Maybe a checklist of all known pennants of this style would help.

[Duluth Eskimo]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Just picked this up. Not fantastic shape but the price was right.

Question: The Giants won 3 pennants in the 1930s and 2 more in the 1950s. I usually see this pennant referred to as "1950s." Mike Egner's book says these are from the 1940s but I doubt that. Why is it this pennant couldn't be from the 1930s? The players certainly look of that era or earlier.

This is a 50's pennant. You can often tell (my opinion) by the makeup of the pennant itself as well as the font used in the team lettering. Anything from the 30's is generally more block style. This font was generally not used until the 50's. The Phillies pennant shown (very nice and tough pennant) is one of the last to use this style. This is a classic 40's style design. I have many Yankees pennants that use variations of these designs over the 30-50's years. I also have many photos with fans holding these pennants showing these designs. Personally I believe the dating of some of the style pennants in Mike's book to be a little off. This of course is my opinion, but drawn from many years of experience.

[MK]

Originally Posted by Duluth Eskimo

This is a 50's pennant. You can often tell (my opinion) by the makeup of the pennant itself as well as the font used in the team lettering. Anything from the 30's is generally more block style. This font was generally not used until the 50's. The Phillies pennant shown (very nice and tough pennant) is one of the last to use this style. This is a classic 40's style design. I have many Yankees pennants that use variations of these designs over the 30-50's years. I also have many photos with fans holding these pennants showing these designs. Personally I believe the dating of some of the style pennants in Mike's book to be a little off. This of course is my opinion, but drawn from many years of experience.

So do you think think the Cubs version is from the 1930s or 1945?

[perezfan]

I'd definitely say 1945 on that Cubs pennant. Just my opinion, but an educated one. I believe this style to have spanned from the mid forties through early fifties. About a 6-7 year span. I have also seen a Giants variation with a "1951" date.

[MK]

Originally Posted by perezfan

I'd definitely say 1945 on that Cubs pennant. Just my opinion, but an educated one. I believe this style to have spanned from the mid forties through early fifties. About a 6-7 year span. I have also seen a Giants variation with a "1951" date.

You may be right Mark that it is 1945. But if so, I would have thought there would be a companion Detroit Tigers version and I have never seen one. That is one reason I always thought this was from 1938.

[ooo-ribay]

Good discussion.....

[Duluth Eskimo]

I agree with Mark. Definitely 1945. I have not seen a matching Tigers version either, but that is for sure 1945. All of those Cubs Post season are difficult pennants. A good number of the 30's and 1929 are dated or have both teams listed. This Cubs version is of the "newer" sort with more detailed graphics and generally multiple colors.

[phillies]

There are a few different versions of this pennant for the phillies. There is also a dodger one, which could be from 41, 47, 49 or 52...

http://imgur.com/a/8gZ2m

[MK]

Originally Posted by Duluth Eskimo

I agree with Mark. Definitely 1945. I have not seen a matching Tigers version either, but that is for sure 1945. All of those Cubs Post season are difficult pennants. A good number of the 30's and 1929 are dated or have both teams listed. This Cubs version is of the "newer" sort with more detailed graphics and generally multiple colors.

OK. 1945 it is.

[ricardoh]

Originally Posted by perezfan

I'd definitely say 1945 on that Cubs pennant. Just my opinion, but an educated one. I believe this style to have spanned from the mid forties through early fifties. About a 6-7 year span. I have also seen a Giants variation with a "1951" date.

I agree with all this. And just because a version was made for one team did not always mean an exacte version was made for the opposing team. Sometimes yes but not always. Until one is known, it cannot be assumed.

[lefty147]

Originally Posted by ricardoh

I agree with all this. And just because a version was made for one team did not always mean an exacte version was made for the opposing team. Sometimes yes but not always. Until one is known, it cannot be assumed.

This is the biggest challenge estimating dates when pennants were made.

[Duluth Eskimo]

Originally Posted by lefty147

This is the biggest challenge estimating dates when pennants were made.

Mike,
Hopefully you didn't take my comments as a slight on your book. It is very well done and has been quickly adapted as "the" price guide for pennants. It is very difficult to date many of these pennants as there were so many produced in these general templates without any dating to them.

[MK]

Originally Posted by lefty147

This is the biggest challenge estimating dates when pennants were made.

Would have been nice if they had put the year on all the pennant winner pennants!

[lefty147]

Originally Posted by Duluth Eskimo

Mike,
Hopefully you didn't take my comments as a slight on your book. It is very well done and has been quickly adapted as "the" price guide for pennants. It is very difficult to date many of these pennants as there were so many produced in these general templates without any dating to them.

Not at all. Thanks

[hugginsandscott]

Anyone ever seen this one?

http://s01.hugginsandscott.com/cgi-b...l?itemid=96567

We couldn't find it anywhere.
Thanks
Josh
Huggins and Scott

[ooo-ribay]

There was a recent discussion about that pennant. As I remember, someone had a chance to buy it as a flip.....

It may have been in this thread or maybe as a thread on it's own.

[YankeeFan]

Nice discussion on the various League Champion pennants guys. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and insights.

I have a Yankees one which I thought was from the 1930's. Now I'm not so sure. It does have block lettering, which Jason notes as one indicator of possible 30's vintage.
But other evidence clearly shows that this graphic was used over a number of years. Since the Yankees won several pennants in the 30's, 40's and 50's, it doesn't help to narrow down that range.
I just wanted to say that his discussion was very informative to me. I'm thinking probably 1940's for the one I have now.

[71buc]

Wow there are some amazing pennants in this thread. Thankfully my tastes are a bit more pedestrian and singular when it comes to pennants. This one represents an upgrade for my collection. For some reason this version and the 1971 World Champions black scroll pennant seem difficult to find in any condition.

[mrkrab]

Originally Posted by hugginsandscott

Anyone ever seen this one?

http://s01.hugginsandscott.com/cgi-b...l?itemid=96567

We couldn't find it anywhere.
Thanks
Josh
Huggins and Scott

Here is the tigers version

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by mrkrab

Here is the tigers version

Hmmmm...could there be a whole set? I think I've seen just about every SF Giants pennant ever made but I've never seen one in that style.

[ricardoh]

Originally Posted by hugginsandscott

Anyone ever seen this one?

http://s01.hugginsandscott.com/cgi-b...l?itemid=96567

We couldn't find it anywhere.
Thanks
Josh
Huggins and Scott

it is the Keezer version for the Astros.

[ricardoh]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Hmmmm...could there be a whole set? I think I've seen just about every SF Giants pennant ever made but I've never seen one in that style.

yes Keezer often had their stamp on the back. They made them for every team in the 50s and 60s, also mini pennants for every team. They are distinguishable by the location of the tassles on the border and how thick and wide they are, also the type of felt, etc. A great set to put together and not at all easy to do.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by ricardoh

yes Keezer often had their stamp on the back. They made them for every team in the 50s and 60s, also mini pennants for every team. They are distinguishable by the location of the tassles on the border and how thick and wide they are, also the type of felt, etc. A great set to put together and not at all easy to do.

No kidding.... Might take a decade or more to put together that set!

[thetahat]

This is almost a complete set, have a few others not pictured and also a weird Astros version, but still need the Browns and, assuming one was made, Colt 45s. These are some of my favorites, too, in particular Phillies and KC A's. Many of them were stamped on the back but some weren't.

[ricardoh]

Originally Posted by thetahat

This is almost a complete set, have a few others not pictured and also a weird Astros version, but still need the Browns and, assuming one was made, Colt 45s. These are some of my favorites, too, in particular Phillies and KC A's. Many of them were stamped on the back but some weren't.

NICE!!
I am not sure a Browns was ever made; I suspect these were probably made after they went to Baltimore. Same story for Colt 45s. I don't know of a Keezer Colt 45 version I've ever seen and I would not bet one was ever made.
So I would say you own a complete set! Very nice, indeed!

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by thetahat

This is almost a complete set, have a few others not pictured and also a weird Astros version, but still need the Browns and, assuming one was made, Colt 45s. These are some of my favorites, too, in particular Phillies and KC A's. Many of them were stamped on the back but some weren't.

Are you sure the Astros is a Keezer? Because, obviously, the NY Giants and Brooklyn pennants would be 1957 or earlier while the Astros didn't come into existence until 1965. If the Astros is a Keezer, I would also expect an updated Giants and Dodgers.

[ricardoh]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Are you sure the Astros is a Keezer? Because, obviously, the NY Giants and Brooklyn pennants would be 1957 or earlier while the Astros didn't come into existence until 1965. If the Astros is a Keezer, I would also expect an updated Giants and Dodgers.

Yes I am sure the Astros is Keezer. The Brooklyn and NY Giants are in his picture. The SF Giants Keezer is pictured somewhere on this forum; it is not all that difficult. And I am trying to picture in my head what the LA Dodgers looks like but can't remember, but have to believe it was made.

[ricardoh]

I have a full set of Keezer minis (or believe I do) that I've accumulated over the years. I am thinking almost all of the graphics on the mini pennants match the graphics on the full size ones. But some may be different, can't remember for certain. And a couple teams have more than one variation.

I will take some pictures of those tonight and post them.

[ooo-ribay]

If anyone has a picture of the SF Giants Keezer, please post. Is it the orange one with sliding runner, catcher and ump?

[thetahat]

There is a Keezer Browns, it is identical to this Keezer mini I have pictured. I've seen it for sale before fullsize (very rare) but didn't pull the trigger. My Keezer Astros is similar to the white one now up for auction by Huggins, but the only graphic is that of an astronaut. It is red cloth with white letters. And if my memory serves me correctly, I may have bought it many years ago from someone involved in this discussion!

[thetahat]

As someone who exclusively collects pennants, I am intrigued by the different styles, makers, etc. I really like the stadium pennants from the 50s and 60s. These date back to Ebbets and Polo Grounds up to the mid 60s. They had the artist's initials etched somewhere in the graphic and then a primitive trademark baseball in the later years. I think every team had a stadium version except for the Phillies, Mets, and Senators. And I wonder why that is the case. (I know the Mets have pennants with Shea depicted but that's not the same maker.)

Then there are the Ad Flag pennants which are really awful looking and look like they were cut with scissors. I have the Phillies one with the quaker batter and I got tired enough of looking at it that it is now buried in a drawer for good. I don't think they paid their art department a whole lot.


The Keezers, though, are very cool in their simplicity and are of high quality. Those tassels ain't falling out.

[ricardoh]

Here are all the Keezer mini pennants I have. There is a Colt 45s mini that I had at one time but no longer.

[ricardoh]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

If anyone has a picture of the SF Giants Keezer, please post. Is it the orange one with sliding runner, catcher and ump?

The full size SF Giants matches the mini, in the picture I just posted.

[mrkrab]

more keezer varations

[perezfan]

Great discussion and pics! I have the St. Louis Browns full size version. If I can uncover it, I'll post a photo.

I agree that AdFlag pennants are cheaper looking. Their idiotic Brooklyn Bum is possibly the only Brooklyn Pennant I really don't like. Looks like a creepy child molestor.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by ricardoh

The full size SF Giants matches the mini, in the picture I just posted.

Thanks. As I thought about it, that one came to mind as a Keezer possibilitu. I'll have to see if mine's stamped but I don't think it is.

[perezfan]

Quite a few of mine are not stamped. This has been a great discussion (with many thanks to Greg and Rick). I did not know many of those were Keezers.

Great stuff!

[ricardoh]

I just picked this up, worked on getting this for several month, it is mint! 8 inches by 35 inches, the tip is perfect too, just the photo didn't catch it. has to be from the teens or early 20s

[lefty147]

That is sweet. Congrats.

[WillowGrove]

Originally Posted by ricardoh

I just picked this up, worked on getting this for several month, it is mint! 8 inches by 35 inches, the tip is perfect too, just the photo didn't catch it. has to be from the teens or early 20s

I love it. Congrats on reeling it in!

[vintagesportscollector]

Originally Posted by ricardoh

I just picked this up, worked on getting this for several month, it is mint! 8 inches by 35 inches, the tip is perfect too, just the photo didn't catch it. has to be from the teens or early 20s

That is fantastic.