Beware Carterscards2006

[FrankWakefield]

Todd poorly predicates his case if he posts here that he knew it was a -4 and not a -5; and that he knew that a card in a GAI holder may well be mistakenly graded.

I agree with Barry to a point. Ideally, TPG should work as he suggests. But it doesn't. And that's why I'm content to collect without it. I do understand why folks want it, there are a bunch of reasons. Again, if you're leaving your card in a slab then the slab does mean something to you...

[nolemmings]

Frank, let me clarify for you. I don't care which holder the card is in, so long as it is good. You stated that if I wanted a card in an SGC holder, I should wait for one to come along. My point is I don't need the card in an SGC holder-- I have about equal numbers of SGC and PSA cards, some Beckett and GAI and the one Pro. All of these together are about one-half of my m101-s--the rest are raw. So the name on the holder is irrelevant. Maybe one day when I sell my m101s the particular holder will make a difference, but I expect that's years down the road.

I never said I didn't know the card was m101-4. I merely responded to a post stating that I got an m101-5 Stengel. I did not. See post 6. That is my only comment on that issue.

Barry, when I get more time I'll offer my opinion on the TPG topic. But again, I couldn't care less what the number on the holder states, so long as it is unaltered. So those who think I ought not to be able to get a bump are missing the point-- I told SGC I would have taken a three-grade drop.

The issue is one of trimming--an unaltered vs. altered card. Whether a card is trimmed or not is a question of fact, not opinion. It either happened or it didn't, and if it did, it cripples the card's value. Now who you believe to establish whether a card is trimmed is one thing, but if it happened, it happened. Frankly, SCG is almost a red herring here. Suppose I was the world's foremost authority on trimming, and I could show you that this card was trimmed. Then SGC's involvement is immaterial-- I bought an altered card. Any card that carries a numeric grade implicitly warrants that the cards is unaltered, and every seller selling such a card had better stand behind it, or, at a minimum (and this might not be good enough if he has actual knowledge of the trimming) expressly state that he makes no assurances that the card is authentic and unaltered. That's my position in a nutshell, although the seller's representations about an early GAI submission provides additional fodder, IMO.

[FrankWakefield]

The seller was selling you a GAI numbered card, and that is what you got. The card world will be in a worse mess if sellers of slabbed cards are guaranteeing that the slabs are right. It would be the TPG, if anyone, who guarantees that.

And from the last post, the slab does matter to you, you are indifferent as to which slab it is, as long as it is right. That's different from "the holder means nothing to me." Thanks for clearing that up.

So is the thing to do to mail that GAI holdered card back to the seller, registered mail, and request a refund? I don't see how you get a refund until you make a return.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

The issue is one of trimming--an unaltered vs. altered card. Whether a card is trimmed or not is a question of fact, not opinion. It either happened or it didn't, and if it did, it cripples the card's value. Now who you believe to establish whether a card is trimmed is one thing, but if it happened, it happened. Frankly, SCG is almost a red herring here. Suppose I was the world's foremost authority on trimming, and I could show you that this card was trimmed. Then SGC's involvement is immaterial-- I bought an altered card. Any card that carries a numeric grade implicitly warrants that the cards is unaltered, and every seller selling such a card had better stand behind it, or, at a minimum (and this might not be good enough if he has actual knowledge of the trimming) expressly state that he makes no assurances that the card is authentic and unaltered. That's my position in a nutshell, although the seller's representations about an early GAI submission provides additional fodder, IMO.

If that's your position, then you lose. Period! It is one TPG's word against another and you have no way to prove which is right. Both are professional (although some could argue the point about GAI) grading companies paid to render an opinion. If you did not trust GAI, you never should have bough the card. On the other hand, if you approach it from the angle that you bought a M101-5 and received an M101-4, I think you have a case for a SNAD - although I believe you knew what you were buying all along.